Recovering completely from 3 cycles & 2 c***ses

Rayquaza

New member
Hey guys, I'm writing this because I'd like to come off of AAS completely, and am very curious to know if anyone has recovered from gear to near pre-AAS levels, and if so, what the PCT regime looked like. I would really like some solution oriented advice, I am well aware I did some things wrong here. I am 27, 6'1", 217 lbs, 9-10% BF, and have a refined diet. I did have pre-AAS bloods done as well as multiple EKG's, kidney and heart ultrasounds, and a full CT scan showing blood flow (my natty test level was 708 @24).

If anyone cares to know, I am coming off because I told myself from the beginning if AAS adversely affects me, I will discontinue use. A few months ago a heart ultrasound and stress test indicated LVH, albeit within normal ranges, as well as mitral valve regurgitation in 3/4 valves. I was informed its still reversible at this point should I discontinue use, which I did. It seems quickly onset HBP was the main culprit and I have since gotten it under control (I monitored it during cycles as well). I am now on a TRT dose of 160-180mg/weekly, and want to come off completely, and stay natural as long as I can. I'm happy with my progress and how I look, and simply want to maintain it as best I can. I was a competitor, but my health is personally more important to me. My usage history;

Cycle 1 - 12 weeks 500mg test C/week Did not use HCG (it was unavailable to me at the time). I recovered to 400+ natural test after this cycle, and correctly PCT'd with clomid/nolva. This is when I dialed in my Adex dosing, and learned I wasn't eating enough. Mistakes were made.

Cycle 2 - This cycle was 6.5 months later - 500EQ/600 test C/week for 15 weeks, 25-30mg dbol/first 4 weeks 250IU hcg x2 /week for the entirety. This cycle was also followed by an 8 week 250mg/week test C c***se, so the total length would be 23 weeks including the c***se. I hated how the dbol made me feel, and this was probably when I started having BP issues. I was able to recover to 400+ test after this cycle pretty well, though. I PCT'd the same, clomid nolva. I know the c***sing dose was a bad idea, but it helped me keep all my weight on to compete. I also discovered 600mg test was way too much for me personally.

Cycle 3 - This cycle was 5 months & 1 week later - I started off c***sing on 250mg for 19 weeks followed by; 300mg NPP/400mg test C/week for 6 weeks & 5 days, 50mg var/first 4 weeks/250IU HCG x2/week. It was at this point I discovered the LVH, cut the cycle short and discontinued everything except test, and have been c***sing on 160-180mg which is 8 weeks, 3 days today. My BP does great on trt doses. I strongly suspect the NPP was the main culprit for the LVH.

Time between cycles did not include PCT, and I PCT'ed after every cycle strictly, and correctly. No HCG has been used in PCT thus far.

I know some of my time frames were not optimal, and that I rushed into some of the cycles. There is no justification here, I just got eager and wanted to get back on and compete. But like I said earlier, I'm looking for advice from anyone who has recovered from similar compounds being ran, or even longer/more aggressive cycles and have recovered. If so, I'd really like to see your PCT protocol, and am really open to any advice here. Basically, I just want to see if I would even have a chance at recovering to natty levels. Any help and guidance would be greatly appreciated!
 
You had test at 708 at age 24 but you posted 400+ between cycles. Do you mean your test was in the 400 range? Can you get the actual levels and post them?

Feed the experience members info and they can give better advice. Test, Free t, LH, FSH, e2 SHBG . . All that!
 
If your pre cycle natty test levels were 708 and you were in the 400 range after a few cycles, I'm not sure you'll be able to get back to the 700 range naturally. You may not be able to get to the 400 range naturally after pct. Just being honest with you..
 
You had test at 708 at age 24 but you posted 400+ between cycles. Do you mean your test was in the 400 range? Can you get the actual levels and post them?

Feed the experience members info and they can give better advice. Test, Free t, LH, FSH, e2 SHBG . . All that!

Yep, my test was 708 at 24. That's correct. Between cycles my test recovered to 407, and 410 respectively. The blood tests were done 1 month and 3 months after PCT, respectively. LH/FSH was not recorded between cycles, I made some mistakes there. Or are you asking for current LH/FSH? My estrogen has always been kept in check, and my LDL only got high on the actual cycles. My TSH has always been high, and T4 always low. I have hypothroidism, its hereditary. I also have a collateral artery that runs to one of my kidneys, which was diagnosed by a nephrologist. It is suspected this is what caused some of my BP issues (as this condition in turn raises renin levels).

If your pre cycle natty test levels were 708 and you were in the 400 range after a few cycles, I'm not sure you'll be able to get back to the 700 range naturally. You may not be able to get to the 400 range naturally after pct. Just being honest with you..

Maybe I didn't correctly explain my time frames. What you're saying is true, but both blood tests were taken pretty quickly after PCT, and from what I understand it can take up to 6 months to recover completely.

During my first cycle my last shot of test was 3/11, I completed PCT 4/24, and a month later I had the test which showed 407. Keep in mind this was the cycle I failed to use HCG on as well. Personally, I would consider recovering to 407 a month after PCT not terrible, but I may be wrong. And I took 6 months between that one and the next, so I'm sure it recovered further (although I regret not testing it right before cycle 2). The second cycle bloods were done in a similar manner, 2 months after PCT, which showed 410.
 
Hey Ray, hope your feeling better, have you done blood test recently, its been over a month since your last one.
 
I completely recovered after 2 year long cycle. Knocked up the wife 45 days after the cycle ended. I ran igf1-lr3 and hcg the whole cycle and a standard pct. colmid for 1 month with the igf.
 
I completely recovered after 2 year long cycle. Knocked up the wife 45 days after the cycle ended. I ran igf1-lr3 and hcg the whole cycle and a standard pct. colmid for 1 month with the igf.

So many feelings and emotions on this one.
First that came to mind, damn impressive when including the wifey in it.
Then im again shocking at 2 years and wonder why and even how haha.

What compound(s) did you do and dosages ?

Thats pretty hardcore either way you split it.
GZ on the coming kid :)
 
I completely recovered after 2 year long cycle. Knocked up the wife 45 days after the cycle ended. I ran igf1-lr3 and hcg the whole cycle and a standard pct. colmid for 1 month with the igf.

Great, thank you for the info! This is exactly the kind of constructive post I'm looking for that includes the PCT. When you say completely recovered, are you meaning your test levels after the 2 year cycle were around your natural level?
 
So what is your plan of action now op?

Thanks for asking. After spending quite some time debating where I want to go with competing and whether or not i want to live with trt, I decided to come off completely around the same time of my last post. Mentally dedicating myself to the decision seems to have helped immensely, instead of just longing to stay on. Today is 13 days since my last pin of 125mg test cyp, I'm starting PCT tomorrow. I've been taking a shot of 350IU hcg every other day between my last shot and today. I know most people would suggest much more hcg, but my theory is that I didn't want to over-saturate whatever cells hcg influences, but I also didn't want to just cut it out. So far I feel great and haven't lost any strength, size, or appetite (I've woken up hard every day for the last week as well). I know everyone is different, but by now I'm generally severely depressed, losing weight, losing strength, appetite is non-existent, no sex drive, etc. I also decided to up the calories while recovering which I think is helping out a lot.

For PCT, I'm planning on keeping it simple with clomid/nolva. I know from previous PCT's clomid wreaks havoc on my mind, and the vision issues bother me so I'm planning 50/40/40/20, possibly an extra week of 20. For nolva I was thinking - 40/40/30/20/20 with possibly an extra week of 20 as well. I'm still researching and debating how long the PCT itself should be, while at the same time not doing it for too long. Other than that I'm taking 5htp, fish oil, 50mg losartin ed, coq10, vit c, & milk thistle.
 
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Sounds good, on the vitamin front D3 and zinc or ZMA would be good to add in, and take lots of that fish oil.
 
Thanks for asking. After spending quite some time debating where I want to go with competing and whether or not i want to live with trt, I decided to come off completely around the same time of my last post. Mentally dedicating myself to the decision seems to have helped immensely, instead of just longing to stay on. Today is 13 days since my last pin of 125mg test cyp, I'm starting PCT tomorrow. I've been taking a shot of 350IU hcg every other day between my last shot and today. I know most people would suggest much more hcg, but my theory is that I didn't want to over-saturate whatever cells hcg influences, but I also didn't want to just cut it out. So far I feel great and haven't lost any strength, size, or appetite (I've woken up hard every day for the last week as well). I know everyone is different, but by now I'm generally severely depressed, losing weight, losing strength, appetite is non-existent, no sex drive, etc. I also decided to up the calories while recovering which I think is helping out a lot.

For PCT, I'm planning on keeping it simple with clomid/nolva. I know from previous PCT's clomid wreaks havoc on my mind, and the vision issues bother me so I'm planning 50/40/40/20, possibly an extra week of 20. For nolva I was thinking - 40/40/30/20/20 with possibly an extra week of 20 as well. I'm still researching and debating how long the PCT itself should be, while at the same time not doing it for too long. Other than that I'm taking 5htp, fish oil, 50mg losartin ed, coq10, vit c, & milk thistle.

i recommend you take your caloric intake to 5% above maint and start eating a diet higher in saturated fats..

the drugs alone wont help you recover.. you have to give your body what it needs to make natty test.. saturated fats are key for that..

also, after your 4 weeks of pct, wait another 6 weeks and check your levels... do not change your diet in this time..

IF you have not recovered to a decent level run 35mg clomid 3 times a week for another 6 weeks... wait another 6 weeks and test again..

again, do not mess with your nutrition in all this.. its very important.. make sure youre getting the saturated fats.. beef is king here
 
I really appreciate the help guys. I'll take your advice on zma and up the fish oil. The first week definitely hit me hard and as usual taking clomid/nolva makes me lose my appetite (especially right after ingesting) but I've still been able to keep the calories up (taking a few rips helps too lol). Definitely feeling a little depressed and un-confident. Its a lot harder to recover, and I'm getting exhausted/tired much easier. But I still haven't lost much strength at all, I'm still pretty full and seem to be consistently staying between 214-217 lbs.
 
Looking good, and youve got top expert advice given to you, hope you can feel better soon.
 
Hey guys, I just wanted to give an update and be as informative as possible so that in the future if anyone goes through something similar, they have a reference.

I'm currently in my fifth week of PCT. I decided to lengthen it to six weeks at moderate doses, and am having great results. I don't have any actual numbers yet as its too early to get bloods done, but this pct has by far been the easiest recovery so far. Here is the protocol I've decided on;

Nolva - 40/40/30/30/30/20
Clomid - 50/40/30/20/20
Supplements - Fish oil, omega 3, vitamin C, 5-HTP, Losarton (down to 50mg), baby aspirin daily. I haven't been able to get B12 shots yet and keep forgetting about the ZMA :s

Its worth noting I accidentally under-dosed the clomid for the first week and only did 25 for the majority of that week. It actually seems to have negated quite a bit of the emotional sides for the PCT. I've also decided to run Nolva one week longer than clomid. This is to help protect against E2 which is something a few guys I've talked to about recovery suggested, as it worked for them. I also believe this will help as I personally seem to benefit more with Nolva over clomid.

I do have some very good news about the LVH and regurgitation. Being the impatient person I am, I decided to get another ultrasound done (again, I have some friends in the medical field) to see if the LVH or regurgitation had improved. In just 7 weeks since discontinuation of AAS, my LVH went from moderate to trace. The ventricle itself is not measuring enlarged anymore, but the posterior wall 'still looks enlarged' according to the tech. While on AAS I also developed mild regurgitation in the mitral, aortic, and tricuspid valves while on AAS. The aortic valve is now completely normal, and there is only trace regurgitation in the mitral and tricuspid valves.
As for my blood pressure (which sparked this whole situation), it has also recovered very well. My systolic hasn't been above 140 and is usually hanging around 110-130's, and my diastolic has been consistently under 80 (usually between 70-80).

I know I'm talking in terms of mild and moderate which are not necessarily alarming amounts by themselves. However, what was alarming and why I discontinued use is the rate at which it was growing. The biggest part of my left ventricle grew from 1mm to 1.3mm in just over a year. This high of a rate of growth would have most definitely lead to either heart problems or heart failure down the road. From what I've learned from my friend who is a cardiologist is that these are both reversible if you can catch them early as I did.

This also makes me wonder how many guys are running around with LVH or messed up valves. My doses were always much more moderate than any of my buddies or people around me who were using. I've always done bloods, ultrasounds and been very conscious about it, and I still had this happen. Maybe its just me, but even still I show no signs of predisposition, and have nothing that would cause it on the hereditary side.

As for the gains, I went from a starting weight of 216 down to 205. This might sound bad, but its actually the least amount I've lost, and I still seem to have 85-90% of my size. The first 2-3 weeks were the worst and I was wondering when the loss would stop, but it seems to have evened out at 205-206. The worst part has definitely been the inability to get a pump for the life of me, and generally weaker. Its a struggle to stay at the weight I'm at, but honestly it was so high before (for me) that I'm happy with where I'm at now; 305 bench/495 dead/445 squat. Of course even these numbers are a struggle to keep now. As for recovering from lifts, and time between sets, I definitely notice a huge difference getting off just the 300mg npp I was doing to now (aka from feeling like a god to feeling like an earthworm). But in a weird way it feels nice to really have to work for it, and it seems to get better each week. Another annoying thing is that I'm extremely, grotesquely flat, but this is something that has always happened in the past, and seems to go away after 1-1.5 months post AAS.

I'd also like to note something that seems to have played a huge part in recovery, having some support. I have a few powerlifting buddies who know what I'm going through, and check up on me every week. They've been extremely supportive, and even though they're all hoping on tren and throwing around 100's of pounds, they've played a huge part in my recovery keeping my mind right, and just being encouraging. It still really sucks to give up something that was so important and basically a dream of mine. But personally, this is where I said I'd draw the line, and my health is extremely important to me. (although gains are importanter). I'll check back when I get some bloodwork.
 
I do have some very good news about the LVH and regurgitation. Being the impatient person I am, I decided to get another ultrasound done (again, I have some friends in the medical field) to see if the LVH or regurgitation had improved. In just 7 weeks since discontinuation of AAS, my LVH went from moderate to trace. The ventricle itself is not measuring enlarged anymore, but the posterior wall 'still looks enlarged' according to the tech. While on AAS I also developed mild regurgitation in the mitral, aortic, and tricuspid valves while on AAS. The aortic valve is now completely normal, and there is only trace regurgitation in the mitral and tricuspid valves.
As for my blood pressure (which sparked this whole situation), it has also recovered very well. My systolic hasn't been above 140 and is usually hanging around 110-130's, and my diastolic has been consistently under 80 (usually between 70-80).

I know I'm talking in terms of mild and moderate which are not necessarily alarming amounts by themselves. However, what was alarming and why I discontinued use is the rate at which it was growing. The biggest part of my left ventricle grew from 1mm to 1.3mm in just over a year. This high of a rate of growth would have most definitely lead to either heart problems or heart failure down the road. From what I've learned from my friend who is a cardiologist is that these are both reversible if you can catch them early as I did.

Man that's great news, gives some hope to those of us that are worried about our hearts on steroids.
 
Hey guys, I just wanted to give an update and be as informative as possible so that in the future if anyone goes through something similar, they have a reference.

I'm currently in my fifth week of PCT. I decided to lengthen it to six weeks at moderate doses, and am having great results. I don't have any actual numbers yet as its too early to get bloods done, but this pct has by far been the easiest recovery so far. Here is the protocol I've decided on;

Nolva - 40/40/30/30/30/20
Clomid - 50/40/30/20/20
Supplements - Fish oil, omega 3, vitamin C, 5-HTP, Losarton (down to 50mg), baby aspirin daily. I haven't been able to get B12 shots yet and keep forgetting about the ZMA :s

Its worth noting I accidentally under-dosed the clomid for the first week and only did 25 for the majority of that week. It actually seems to have negated quite a bit of the emotional sides for the PCT. I've also decided to run Nolva one week longer than clomid. This is to help protect against E2 which is something a few guys I've talked to about recovery suggested, as it worked for them. I also believe this will help as I personally seem to benefit more with Nolva over clomid.

I do have some very good news about the LVH and regurgitation. Being the impatient person I am, I decided to get another ultrasound done (again, I have some friends in the medical field) to see if the LVH or regurgitation had improved. In just 7 weeks since discontinuation of AAS, my LVH went from moderate to trace. The ventricle itself is not measuring enlarged anymore, but the posterior wall 'still looks enlarged' according to the tech. While on AAS I also developed mild regurgitation in the mitral, aortic, and tricuspid valves while on AAS. The aortic valve is now completely normal, and there is only trace regurgitation in the mitral and tricuspid valves.
As for my blood pressure (which sparked this whole situation), it has also recovered very well. My systolic hasn't been above 140 and is usually hanging around 110-130's, and my diastolic has been consistently under 80 (usually between 70-80).

I know I'm talking in terms of mild and moderate which are not necessarily alarming amounts by themselves. However, what was alarming and why I discontinued use is the rate at which it was growing. The biggest part of my left ventricle grew from 1mm to 1.3mm in just over a year. This high of a rate of growth would have most definitely lead to either heart problems or heart failure down the road. From what I've learned from my friend who is a cardiologist is that these are both reversible if you can catch them early as I did.

This also makes me wonder how many guys are running around with LVH or messed up valves. My doses were always much more moderate than any of my buddies or people around me who were using. I've always done bloods, ultrasounds and been very conscious about it, and I still had this happen. Maybe its just me, but even still I show no signs of predisposition, and have nothing that would cause it on the hereditary side.

As for the gains, I went from a starting weight of 216 down to 205. This might sound bad, but its actually the least amount I've lost, and I still seem to have 85-90% of my size. The first 2-3 weeks were the worst and I was wondering when the loss would stop, but it seems to have evened out at 205-206. The worst part has definitely been the inability to get a pump for the life of me, and generally weaker. Its a struggle to stay at the weight I'm at, but honestly it was so high before (for me) that I'm happy with where I'm at now; 305 bench/495 dead/445 squat. Of course even these numbers are a struggle to keep now. As for recovering from lifts, and time between sets, I definitely notice a huge difference getting off just the 300mg npp I was doing to now (aka from feeling like a god to feeling like an earthworm). But in a weird way it feels nice to really have to work for it, and it seems to get better each week. Another annoying thing is that I'm extremely, grotesquely flat, but this is something that has always happened in the past, and seems to go away after 1-1.5 months post AAS.

I'd also like to note something that seems to have played a huge part in recovery, having some support. I have a few powerlifting buddies who know what I'm going through, and check up on me every week. They've been extremely supportive, and even though they're all hoping on tren and throwing around 100's of pounds, they've played a huge part in my recovery keeping my mind right, and just being encouraging. It still really sucks to give up something that was so important and basically a dream of mine. But personally, this is where I said I'd draw the line, and my health is extremely important to me. (although gains are importanter). I'll check back when I get some bloodwork.
thanks for the update and looking forward to seeing your blood results.
 
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