Recovery timeframe while on PCT

G

gayeyes

New member
Hey guys,

I'm currently in PCT from an LGD 8-week cycle which suppressed me significantly (post-cycle bloods showed TT in the 90's). I was also running Dermacrine during the cycle for a mild test base so I felt fine throughout the cycle -- energy, alertness, libido were all OK.

However upon starting PCT (clomid 50/50/25/25 + nolva 20/20/10/10) the crash has been pretty bad. I'm finishing week 2 of PCT and experiencing significant lethargy, brain fog and absolutely zero libido or sexual function/desire. I guess that with no LGD or Dermacrine in my system my T has plummeted.

I'm curious as to how quickly the clomid and nolva are supposed to kick in to jumpstart your natural T production. Any insights? I'm getting bloods early next week, will report back.

Thanks guys
 
Milton said:
Thanks for the stats! Did you do blood work before you started your cycle?
Click to expand...

I did. Here's a summary. I'm also doing bloods early next week (mid-PCT).

[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Pre-cycle[/td]
[td]Mid-cycle (4 wks)[/td]
[td]Post-cycle (8 wks)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total test[/td]
[td]516[/td]
[td]98[/td]
[td]70[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]LH[/td]
[td]2.4[/td]
[td]1.5[/td]
[td]0.9[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]FSH[/td]
[td]2.7[/td]
[td]1.5[/td]
[td]1.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Estradiol[/td]
[td]22.8[/td]
[td]26.2[/td]
[td]28.4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total Cholesterol[/td]
[td]156[/td]
[td]152[/td]
[td]134[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]HDL[/td]
[td]44[/td]
[td]28[/td]
[td]17[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]LDL[/td]
[td]99[/td]
[td]105[/td]
[td]100[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
 
Update with mid-PCT bloods. Still 2-3 more weeks of PCT to go.
As you can see, testosterone is coming back nicely thanks to the LH and FSH being full steam ahead, way higher than pre-cycle -- the work of the SERMS. Having said that, my libido is still missing in action, although the lethargy has mostly subsided.
Also my E has raised, still in clinical range but at the very top of it. Should I start Exemestane which I have on hand?
Finally - cholesterol is still messed up. While my HDL is recovering, my LDL has shot way up.

Thoughts/suggestions welcome!

[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Pre-cycle[/td]
[td]Mid-cycle (4 wks)[/td]
[td]Post-cycle (8 wks)[/td]
[td]Mid-PCT (10 wks)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total test[/td]
[td]516[/td]
[td]98[/td]
[td]70[/td]
[td]455[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]LH[/td]
[td]2.4[/td]
[td]1.5[/td]
[td]0.9[/td]
[td]6.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]FSH[/td]
[td]2.7[/td]
[td]1.5[/td]
[td]1.1[/td]
[td]3.9[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Estradiol[/td]
[td]22.8[/td]
[td]26.2[/td]
[td]28.4[/td]
[td]42.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total Cholesterol[/td]
[td]156[/td]
[td]152[/td]
[td]134[/td]
[td]178[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]HDL[/td]
[td]44[/td]
[td]28[/td]
[td]17[/td]
[td]34[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]LDL[/td]
[td]99[/td]
[td]105[/td]
[td]100[/td]
[td]131[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
 
Alright gang, here's an update. Finally got my bloods back for the 4-week mark of my PCT. Overall and by the numbers, I'm happy with my recovery. Test is very high at 931 (way higher than pre-cycle levels) and I fully realize it will come down as I stop the SERMs... hope it levels out at a good value. Cholesterol is back in great shape -- pre-cycle values.

Two concerns. 1) Despite the high test, my libido is not back. I have no interest in sex nor I get good erections. 2) My estrogen is pretty high at 39, which I'm wondering if that could be the cause of the lack of libido. Currently I'm taking 12.5 mg EOD of Aromasin.

Should I up Aromasin maybe to 12.5 ED, or would that be too much? I'd like to get estrogen down to the low 20's which is where it was pre-cycle and see if that brings my sex drive back. I miss it dearly :)


[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Pre-cycle[/td]
[td]Mid-cycle (4 wks)[/td]
[td]Post-cycle (8 wks)[/td]
[td]Mid-PCT (10 wks)[/td]
[td]Post-PCT (12 wks)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total test[/td]
[td]516[/td]
[td]98[/td]
[td]70[/td]
[td]455[/td]
[td]931[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]LH[/td]
[td]2.4[/td]
[td]1.5[/td]
[td]0.9[/td]
[td]6.3[/td]
[td]9.2[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]FSH[/td]
[td]2.7[/td]
[td]1.5[/td]
[td]1.1[/td]
[td]3.9[/td]
[td]5.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Estradiol[/td]
[td]22.8[/td]
[td]26.2[/td]
[td]28.4[/td]
[td]42.3[/td]
[td]39.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total Cholesterol[/td]
[td]156[/td]
[td]152[/td]
[td]134[/td]
[td]178[/td]
[td]157[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]HDL[/td]
[td]44[/td]
[td]28[/td]
[td]17[/td]
[td]34[/td]
[td]47[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]LDL[/td]
[td]99[/td]
[td]105[/td]
[td]100[/td]
[td]131[/td]
[td]98[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
 
I have higher sex drive with mid 30's e than with 20. Individual thing though. Try some Cialis. Once it's up its easy to go even with low sex drive.
 
gayeyes said:
Hey guys,

I'm currently in PCT from an LGD 8-week cycle which suppressed me significantly (post-cycle bloods showed TT in the 90's). I was also running Dermacrine during the cycle for a mild test base so I felt fine throughout the cycle -- energy, alertness, libido were all OK.

However upon starting PCT (clomid 50/50/25/25 + nolva 20/20/10/10) the crash has been pretty bad. I'm finishing week 2 of PCT and experiencing significant lethargy, brain fog and absolutely zero libido or sexual function/desire. I guess that with no LGD or Dermacrine in my system my T has plummeted.

I'm curious as to how quickly the clomid and nolva are supposed to kick in to jumpstart your natural T production. Any insights? I'm getting bloods early next week, will report back.

Thanks guys
Click to expand...

run pct for 4-5 weeks totl THEN WAIT about 6 WEEKS to get blood work. or your bloos are useless, specially durng pct. any numbers are not worth much. you take pct, you let it clear THEN you see where you are.
yes it feel shitty to be in pct, part of game.
get CIA for ny sex issues.
good luck
 
juced_porkchop said:
drop AI during pct btw... please just let things settle and dont add or change stuff. end AI at start of PCT.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate why? Keep in mind that this is a PCT from an LGD cycle, not steroids. My test was tanked (in the 70's). I didn't take an AI on cycle since there was no aromatization going on. I started Exemestane 2 weeks into my PCT as my test starting to climb rapidly, to prevent estrogen from climbing alongside it. I've read several discussions here and on other forums where they suggested 12.5g EOD starting mid-PCT and continuing for up to 4 weeks after stopping the SERMs.

I appreciate your insights.... this is my first rodeo so I'm learning a ton.
 
LGD is highly suppressive in doses as low as 1mg a day - you might as well have been taking straight up testosterone, it is that suppressive.
 
cybrsage said:
LGD is highly suppressive in doses as low as 1mg a day - you might as well have been taking straight up testosterone, it is that suppressive.
Click to expand...

That was my understanding as well going into my cycle. However I've seen comments in other forums where they claim that LGD is only moderately suppressive. They imply that people who get severely suppressed are taking something other than LGD (like a prohormone). What's your take on this? I got my LGD from Sarmsearch so I implicitly trust its quality.
 
this was on the money as usual
juced_porkchop said:
run pct for 4-5 weeks totl THEN WAIT about 6 WEEKS to get blood work. or your bloos are useless, specially durng pct. any numbers are not worth much. you take pct, you let it clear THEN you see where you are.
yes it feel shitty to be in pct, part of game.
get CIA for ny sex issues.
good luck
Click to expand...
 
3J said:
this was on the money as usual
Click to expand...

Well, the bloods served a purpose -- they showed that the SERMS worked to raise my Test and that my estrogen is a bit high. I knew that they wouldn't show final, stable values but this being my first experience I wanted to see where I was. I will run them again later to see where I stabilize.

Also, I tried Cialis and it didn't do anything for me in this situation. It's not that I'm aroused and I can't get it up - it's that my interest in sex has vanished. I'm waiting patiently for it to come back, I know it takes time.
 
I only ran some Sarms so far. LGD scares me a lot in terms of supression etc. bc I am 23 yr old. I was thinking about running LGD but after seeing many people got very supressed with it, I won't touch it lol. I also saw they say Lgd is moderate supressive in other forums too.
 
axgzl01 said:
I only ran some Sarms so far. LGD scares me a lot in terms of supression etc. bc I am 23 yr old. I was thinking about running LGD but after seeing many people got very supressed with it, I won't touch it lol. I also saw they say Lgd is moderate supressive in other forums too.
Click to expand...

They also deny that it affects cholesterol, which I had also read on here and was expecting, and confirmed with my mid-cycle bloods. They claim that the messed up cholesterol is proof that my LGD was spiked with something else.

I guess that we'll never know for sure (short of having a lab analyze the product). It's all about whom you trust....
 
gayeyes said:
That was my understanding as well going into my cycle. However I've seen comments in other forums where they claim that LGD is only moderately suppressive. They imply that people who get severely suppressed are taking something other than LGD (like a prohormone). What's your take on this? I got my LGD from Sarmsearch so I implicitly trust its quality.
Click to expand...

I love using pubmed because it is full of authoritative information. Sure, a medical study's results are only as good as the study itself, but once posted onto pubmed it can be refuted, etc. It is medical science, and I trust medical science over broscience whenever I can find real medical science info. :)

That said, here is what I found in a study about LGD:

The safety, pharmacokinetics, and effects of LGD-4033, a novel nonsteroidal oral, selective androgen receptor modulator, in healthy young men.

RESULTS:
LGD-4033 was well tolerated. There were no drug-related serious adverse events...LGD-4033 administration was associated with dose-dependent suppression of total testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, high density lipoprotein cholesterol, and triglyceride levels. Follicle-stimulating hormone and free testosterone showed significant suppression at 1.0-mg dose only. Lean body mass increased dose dependently, but fat mass did not change significantly. Hormone levels and lipids returned to baseline after treatment discontinuation.
Click to expand...
The safety, pharmacokinetics, and effects of LGD-4033, a novel nonsteroidal oral, selective androgen receptor modulator, in healthy young men. - PubMed - NCBI

They also said that 100% of the test subjects fully recovered to normal testosterone levels after taking LGD without doing any PCT. Personally, I would not risk, being that one person who does not.

LGD is a GREAT SARM, one that I am eventually going to run after I am healed up and doing a bulk. But it is definitely suppressive at far lower doses than the typical bodybuilder uses. For those of us on TRT, the only silver lining is that we do not care about such things. I would trade being normal and having to do PCT that keep that one benefit - being married to a needle is not a lifelong goal I aspired to have.

But anyway, yes, it is highly suppressive, so a full blown PCT is recommended. There are still many reasons to use it over AAS, such as not wanting to inject, the ability to legally buy and sell SARMs in liquid form, etc., but you will want to do PCT after using LGD, just to be safe.
 
Last edited:
cybrsage said:
I love using pubmed because it is full of authoritative information. Sure, a medical study's results are only as good as the study itself, but once posted onto pubmed it can be refuted, etc. It is medical science, and I trust medical science over broscience whenever I can find real medical science info. :)

That said, here is what I found in a study about LGD:


The safety, pharmacokinetics, and effects of LGD-4033, a novel nonsteroidal oral, selective androgen receptor modulator, in healthy young men. - PubMed - NCBI

They also said that 100% of the test subjects fully recovered to normal testosterone levels after taking LGD without doing any PCT. Personally, I would not risk, being that one person who does not.

LGD is a GREAT SARM, one that I am eventually going to run after I am healed up and doing a bulk. But it is definitely suppressive at far lower doses than the typical bodybuilder uses. For those of us on TRT, the only silver lining is that we do not care about such things. I would trade being normal and having to do PCT that keep that one benefit - being married to a needle is not a lifelong goal I aspired to have.

But anyway, yes, it is highly suppressive, so a full blown PCT is recommended. There are still many reasons to use it over AAS, such as not wanting to inject, the ability to legally buy and sell SARMs in liquid form, etc., but you will want to do PCT after using LGD, just to be safe.
Click to expand...

Have you seen any studies discussing its effects on cholesterol?
 
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