Second cycle - looking to learn from mistakes from you..

[paulgreeny83]

Hi all,

So I did a cycle last year:

500mg Test-e/wk (split into 2): week 1 - 12
40mg Anavar/day: week 3 - 4
80mg Anavar: week 5 - week 10
HCG @ 1000IU/week (split into 2): week 6 - 12
HGH (Nordatropin) 3IUs per day/5days per week: week 6 - week 14
Nolva and Clomid PCT.

Gains were good, but my main issue was a huge jump in Estrogen (confirmed in blood work), and severe acne on shoulders back that's only just subsiding. I really want to avoid both this time.

I am looking to lower the test-e side effects, and keep estrogen in check while on cycle, which I think were the causes of acne. This is my planned cycle:

300mg Test-e/week (split into 2): week 1 - 10
50mg Anavar/day: week 1 - 2
100mg Anavar/day: week 3 - 8
HCG @ 1000IU/week (split into 2): week 4 - 10
HGH (Nordatropin) 3IUs per day/5days per week: week 1 - week 8
11-ketotestosterone topical week 1 - 4
Armidex 0.5mg EOD
Vitamin B5 5g/day (split into 2)
Nolva and Clomid PCT.

I am:
32 yr/old
200Lbs
11% BF

Looking to drop ~2% BF and gain 10-Lbs muscle.

Does this look sensible? Anything I'm missing?

Thanks.

 

[Big_rich]

That was not a good choice for a first cycle too many conpounds

 

[Big_rich]

I don see a ai mentioned ???

 

[paulgreeny83]

I mention Armidex in my proposed second cycle.

And I appreciate your comments on my first cycle, but I'm looking for advice on the upcoming one, not the one I've already done.

 

[Gainjin260]

I mention Armidex in my proposed second cycle.

And I appreciate your comments on my first cycle, but I'm looking for advice on the upcoming one, not the one I've already done.

Big Rich is trying to educate you, so listen. It's clear from BOTH these cycles that you are under informed.

How was blood work first cycle?
Hgh has to be run 6 month min. It will do nothing starting and ending in this cycle.
Hcg should be run from the start
Your sides from first cycle were entirely due to not using and ai. I doubt you got blood work done, so your proposed dose of Adex is a complete shot in the dark. You'll need mid cycle blood work to determine if the dose is correct.
Ditch the topical

 

[Teutonic]

10 wk cycle---to short to low a dose. 500 x 12 14 16 weeks
Pick an oral dose and stick with it.
1000 iu s hcg is a bunch of fake female piss ( read son )
Give the topical to a girl u don t really like and tell her it s for a clit stimulant as it is...sort of....lol.
Ur hgh has been pointed out as waaaay to short ie pointless.

NOONE WELCOMEd YOU

Let me be the 1 st

 

[oldmusclemike]

Welcome to the board. I agree by you Q's you need more education. Where is your vitamin B-12 Methyl.
Orals are really bad and you have too much in there . Also you don't need such a stack. Do you think your body is going to react to more then one compound ? Anavar ?

 

[paulgreeny83]

Big Rich is trying to educate you, so listen. It's clear from BOTH these cycles that you are under informed.

How was blood work first cycle?
Hgh has to be run 6 month min. It will do nothing starting and ending in this cycle.
Hcg should be run from the start
Your sides from first cycle were entirely due to not using and ai. I doubt you got blood work done, so your proposed dose of Adex is a complete shot in the dark. You'll need mid cycle blood work to determine if the dose is correct.
Ditch the topical

Thanks for your thoughts. As stated in my opening post, I had blood work done, which confirmed elevated Estrogen.
I do understand that the sides where likely due to not using an AI, hence why my second cycle includes this - thanks for the confirmation. I will do bloods mid-cycle to ensure my Estrogen is under control.

 

[paulgreeny83]

Welcome to the board. I agree by you Q's you need more education. Where is your vitamin B-12 Methyl.
Orals are really bad and you have too much in there . Also you don't need such a stack. Do you think your body is going to react to more then one compound ? Anavar ?

Thanks for the response. I take Methylcobalamin daily, however did not include in my cycle stack list - thanks for pointing that out.

Opinions on orals are polarized and subjective. Some people swear by Anavar given it's excreted by the kidneys and not processed in the liver. I've read about many people doing Var only cycles with great results (I will not be doing this but providing an example of how some people view it).

Regarding HGH - I have used in the past and had tremendous results in 8 weeks, abdominal fat stripped, even with the same diet, more energy in the gym, better sleep etc. It's been proven that HGH works synergistically with anabolics, so if I already have it I see no harm in adding it to my stack while on cycle?

 

[Milton]

Thanks for your thoughts. As stated in my opening post, I had blood work done, which confirmed elevated Estrogen.
I do understand that the sides where likely due to not using an AI, hence why my second cycle includes this - thanks for the confirmation. I will do bloods mid-cycle to ensure my Estrogen is under control.

good on you, look forward to seeing your blood results.

 

[paulgreeny83]

good on you, look forward to seeing your blood results.

Thanks Milton, i'll be sure to post them.

Do you think i'm good with the suggested amount of Var? I'm looking at ramping to 100mg per day (2 x 50mg) over 8 weeks, and I'll obviously be taking iron labs cycle support. The low dose (300mg/wk) test is to serve more as maintenance this time while on anavar - I wasn't happy with the sides when I did 500mg test first time around, but I don't want to do a Var only cycle - I've also got 1 x 10ml (300mg/ml) test vial, which works out nice to 300mg/wk over ten weeks).

Also, just FYI - I'm going for sub-q test this time. Much easier to administer and from my research - twice weekly injections provide rock solid test levels - any thoughts here?

Thanks!

 

[Gainjin260]

Regarding HGH - I have used in the past and had tremendous results in 8 weeks, abdominal fat stripped, even with the same diet, more energy in the gym, better sleep etc. It's been proven that HGH works synergistically with anabolics, so if I already have it I see no harm in adding it to my stack while on cycle?

It's your money and you can't argue with results. It's hard to determine what effects the hgh is having vs the AAS. I'm assuming you've only taken hgh along with a cycle? You'll see better sleep for sure and have more energy. Personally the more dramatic effects of hgh didn't onset until a couple months in.

If you have the money I suggest continuing with the hgh for 6 months through your next cycle (after this one). I think you'll be very pleased with the results and you'll get the continued benefits of good sleep, muscle fullness and extra energy along with muscle building over time.

 

[paulgreeny83]

It's your money and you can't argue with results. It's hard to determine what effects the hgh is having vs the AAS. I'm assuming you've only taken hgh along with a cycle? You'll see better sleep for sure and have more energy. Personally the more dramatic effects of hgh didn't onset until a couple months in.

If you have the money I suggest continuing with the hgh for 6 months through your next cycle (after this one). I think you'll be very pleased with the results and you'll get the continued benefits of good sleep, muscle fullness and extra energy along with muscle building over time.

Thanks Gainjin!

 

[paulgreeny83]

Hi all, as promised, 6 weeks in, I had my blood work done. I'm currently on:

300mg test-e, split 150mg 2 x per week
Anavar 60mg split 30mg 2 x per day
Just finished HGH 2.25IU 5 days per week
Anastrazole liquid 25mg EOD
HCGenerate 5 caps per day.

Plus other supps - fish oil, B complex, vit C etc.

Results so far are good. Put on ~10lbs lean mass (6ft3, now 206lbs), weights have all gone up in the gym, BF stable around 10%. However, I have some questions/concerns.

1). I have been suffering with really bad anxiety, fatigue and low libido (complete opposite of when on my first cycle). I thought I may have very high E2 - during my first cycle my E2 went up into the 50's pg/mL. I had bad acne which I felt may have been due to high E2, hence the Anastrazole on second cycle.

Hormone blood work:

Estradiol <6.0 LOW 7.6-42.6 pg/mL
Testosterone 972 48-1197 ng/dL

Test is where I would expect on this dose, but it seems 25mg Anastrazole EOD has caused E2 to crash way below the sweet spot. Symptoms of low estrogen? Anxiety, fatigue, loss of libido. Anyone else ever experience this? I'm going to drop off the Anastrazole to get myself back above 15pg/mL, then take 12.5mg EOD and retest in a couple of weeks - good plan?

Kidney profile:

Creatinine 1.29 HIGH 0.76-1.27 mg/dL
eGFR 72 >59 mL/min/1.73
BUN 26 HIGH 6-20 mg/dL

This is a concern for me. Around the time I did my first cycle, my eGFR dropped to around 52 (~50% of baseline). I put it down at the time to an incredible amount of life stress, and it did recover; my bloods before this cycle showed eGFR at 98, and creatinine around 1.00, though from memory it took a while (further tests done months after first cycle last year showed eGFR still low at around 75. I have read that it's not unusual to see lower eGFR and increased creatinine on cycle, and that it's not long lasting. Seems to be the case with me, but want to ask those with more experience to confirm or refute this?

Finally:

LH 5.9 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 7.4 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL

It seems as though the HCGenerate is doing its job. The boys have stayed full throughout, and I think the loss of libido is purely due to low E2 (caused by too much Anastrazole). This being the case, do you think PCT is still a must? It's been a light cycle, and the job of PCT is to raise FSH and LH back to normal to bring the boys back online - is that necessary given these results?

Thanks all in advance.

 

[paulgreeny83]

Blood results with questions above

 

[paulgreeny83]

good on you, look forward to seeing your blood results.

Blood results with questions above

 

[paulgreeny83]

Bump

 

[carverelli]

Are those numbers from blood work taken DURING cycle?

 

[Milton]

so when were these bloods taken, before, during?

 

[appleton111]

any progress made yet?