Small/mild gyno deca/tren

[Fadelikedirk]

First time dealing with any gyno as never used 19-nor's before. I'm at week 16 right now.

Cycle is:
Test E @ 700 weeks 1-16
Deca @ 425 weeks 1-12
Mast p @ 375 weeks 16-22
Test p @ 300 weeks 16-23
Tren ace @ 350 weeks 16-22

Adex @.75 ED Prami .5 ED (started around week 15)
Hcg 250x2 EW weeks 8-16

Not looking for cycle critique. This is my 4th cycle I know the risk of running 19-nor, prolactin/progesterone nightmare. First time using tren. Just want to finish my cut as I have 6 weeks left.

Basically noticed small lumps under each nipple. Not really noticable by looking but I can definitely feel them. Started around week 13 after stopping deca but was so minimal I didn't worry. Then grabbed prami in hopes to control it before using tren but it hasn't gone away and maybe even gotten slightly bigger but again still mild.

Would hate to stop cycle as results have been better than any previous cycle, have gained 15 lbs and went from 17%bf to 11%
I have nolva on hand, access to letro but not caber.

I have my pct on hand ready to go as well
Nolva 40/40/20/20/20
Clomid 100/75/50/50
Hcg 1000 ED x10 days starting 3 days before last pin

Planning to be off all AAS for 5 months that after this to let myself recover completely.

Anyone have any suggestions how to reverse or control gyno till cycle ends.

 

[casanovaaa]

have you done any labs? you need to see what your FH,E2,LHS,Testosterone etc levels are.
and those are alot of compounds which makes it harder to manage it all.

 

[oldmusclemike]

NO offense but I gotta say Too many, Too many compounds . really the gear can only do so much and IMOP finishing with Tren you did not need the Mast. I will also add you are having some issues. It's hard to manage 5 compounds, ya think.

The outcome so far is pretty good. Some lean gains However just for one, ya didn't need the Mast.

Good luck but for safe use of AAS just try to keep the number of compounds down.

 

[Fadelikedirk]

have you done any labs? you need to see what your FH,E2,LHS,Testosterone etc levels are.
and those are alot of compounds which makes it harder to manage it all.

My usual doctor just retired and ive put off finding a new one. I'm probably going to cut the cycle short and end it around Christmas and start my pct in hopes nolva can destroy what I have. Then defenitly going to get some blood work done few weeks after pct.

 

[Fadelikedirk]

NO offense but I gotta say Too many, Too many compounds . really the gear can only do so much and IMOP finishing with Tren you did not need the Mast. I will also add you are having some issues. It's hard to manage 5 compounds, ya think.

The outcome so far is pretty good. Some lean gains However just for one, ya didn't need the Mast.

Good luck but for safe use of AAS just try to keep the number of compounds down.

Appreciate you not ripping me apart lol. I agree mast was a bit pointless. As for all the compounds I waited till deca cleared my system before beginning Tren but it was in the time I was not using either of these the gyno developed. I've never had to deal with gyno before and it's also first time using 19-nor so I'm almost certain it's prolactin/progesterone related. I'm going to cut the cycle short as Tren sides are already messing with me but got a taste of what it's like for when I want to run it as a primary compound.
Hopefully my pct will clear up gyno.

 

[scorob777]

First time dealing with any gyno as never used 19-nor's before. I'm at week 16 right now.

Cycle is:
Test E @ 700 weeks 1-16
Deca @ 425 weeks 1-12
Mast p @ 375 weeks 16-22
Test p @ 300 weeks 16-23
Tren ace @ 350 weeks 16-22

Adex @.75 ED Prami .5 ED (started around week 15)
Hcg 250x2 EW weeks 8-16

Can you clear up one question for me? It says above you started the AI at week #15. Does that mean you took no AI for weeks 1 to 14 - or is the starting week 15 talking about Prami? If so you have your culprit, and it is not the deca. A dose of 700 test e and 425 deca per week would require roughly 0.41 mg Adex EOD - rounded up to 0.5 EOD would have been good. If you didn't take that then it was the estrogen from all that test that caused the gyno, deca probably didn't contribute much if anything at all.

And let me be a dissenting voice on the mast. The test, tren, mast stack is a highly effective and popular one. I don't believe you don't need the mast because you are taking tren, I think the opposite - you include the mast because you are taking tren. It makes the whole ride smoother and lessens sides from the tren, makes the test "feel" like a higher dose, and if you are lean enough already will harden you up further.

Now the issue of if you really need five drugs to achieve your goals is another discussion. Probably not, and as you've seen when you get nasty sides you have no clue what is causing them since you didn't figure out how to manage the sides with test only. The other side of the argument is all these testosterone analogues were developed with the goal of trying to get the good (anabolic effects) without getting the bad (androgenic and estrogenic) effects of testosterone. There is a school of thought that says one should wisely choose compounds to run, to get the benefit of all that developmental science, while minimizing the downsides. Having your cake and eating it too.

 

[casanovaaa]

wow, totally did not read the no Ai until week 15.

 

[scorob777]

I think now what he means is Prami started week #15, but let's wait to see what he says.

The aromatizing load from 700 mg/wk Test E and 425 mg/wk deca is 88% testosterone and 12% deca, so my money is on the test causing the gyno. Would be interesting to hear from others if they think the progestogenic nature of the deca 19-nor might have contributed.

 

[oldmusclemike]

wow, totally did not read the no Ai until week 15.

Holy shit, shame on me too ^^^^ Very important
No AI

Can you clear up one question for me? It says above you started the AI at week #15. Does that mean you took no AI for weeks 1 to 14 - or is the starting week 15 talking about Prami? If so you have your culprit, and it is not the deca. A dose of 700 test e and 425 deca per week would require roughly 0.41 mg Adex EOD - rounded up to 0.5 EOD would have been good. If you didn't take that then it was the estrogen from all that test that caused the gyno, deca probably didn't contribute much if anything at all.

And let me be a dissenting voice on the mast. The test, tren, mast stack is a highly effective and popular one. I don't believe you don't need the mast because you are taking tren, I think the opposite - you include the mast because you are taking tren. It makes the whole ride smoother and lessens sides from the tren, makes the test "feel" like a higher dose, and if you are lean enough already will harden you up further.

Now the issue of if you really need five drugs to achieve your goals is another discussion. Probably not, and as you've seen when you get nasty sides you have no clue what is causing them since you didn't figure out how to manage the sides with test only. The other side of the argument is all these testosterone analogues were developed with the goal of trying to get the good (anabolic effects) without getting the bad (androgenic and estrogenic) effects of testosterone. There is a school of thought that says one should wisely choose compounds to run, to get the benefit of all that developmental science, while minimizing the downsides. Having your cake and eating it too.

Ok Tankman , Don't you ever go against what I say... ya hear me

Ha LOL I'm only KIDDING Isn't this a good place for all to learn. Remember I said IMOP about the need for Mast. Well it just might have it's benefit if the user is very experienced and knows his body, and has done a few Tren cycles. It's that the average guy isn't seasoned / or has the tolerance yet build to need MORE then the Tren at the same time. Proof of this in this situation is that OP now says the Tren sides are already beginning to cause a problem in and of itself. In this case I would of let the Mast and gone with a lighter dose of Tren OR just use the Mast. For a first go ????

Enough of that Tankman knows what he speaks of and I don't ultimately disagree with Tank, so it turns out a good discussion and thought process here. WE are all wired different. I like one new compound at a time. Adding one per cycle or two when I am seasoned with another as tankman said which is the culprit on any cycle.

Good Luck, good thread

 

[oldmusclemike]

wow, totally did not read the no Ai until week 15.

I think now what he means is Prami started week #15, but let's wait to see what he says.

The aromatizing load from 700 mg/wk Test E and 425 mg/wk deca is 88% testosterone and 12% deca, so my money is on the test causing the gyno. Would be interesting to hear from others if they think the progestogenic nature of the deca 19-nor might have contributed.

NO......it is not the progesterone from the 19-nor. Really it is in the first place , the lack of an AI to control the E2 levels. Dammit guys , it all started with the Test. I ,missed it but for God's sake as above 700 mgs Test with no AI. OP you should be lactating

OK that's all behind us / you but it needs to be said and learned. Not bashing OP. .. OK

OMM

AS usual a good observation and call Tankman

NOTE: OP sorry to have gotten off your original Q's but this is also a learning place and so your thread has shown many of the noobs things to do and not to do... THanks

 

[scorob777]

Hey Mike, I'm with you bud. I'd rather disagree and have an intelligent conversation than have one viewpoint rammed down my throat. That's the best way to learn.

I'd rather be wrong and learn something than stumble through life not learning at all.

Could use your help over on the my cycle forum, there's a guy there telling somebody with 26% body fat he doesn't need to use an AI on cycle.

 

[oldmusclemike]

wow, totally did not read the no Ai until week 15.

Hey Mike, I'm with you bud. I'd rather disagree and have an intelligent conversation than have one viewpoint rammed down my throat. That's the best way to learn.

I'd rather be wrong and learn something than stumble through life not learning at all.

Could use your help over on the my cycle forum, there's a guy there telling somebody with 26% body fat he doesn't need to use an AI on cycle.

WE see eye to eye on a few things man. I'll go see what you're talking about. Remember what tread title. ?

 

[Fadelikedirk]

WE see eye to eye on a few things man. I'll go see what you're talking about. Remember what tread title. ?

Was using adex since day 1 at .5 ED bumped to 1.0 in week 15 and added prami. Sorry for confusion and gyno is getting worse so I***8217;m probably going to stop pinning Tren this week. Keep pinning my test for 6 days and begin pct as I don***8217;t want anything to be irreversible. Say pct doesn***8217;t reverse the gyno, would I be able to use letro about 2 months post cycle?

 

[Fadelikedirk]

Can you clear up one question for me? It says above you started the AI at week #15. Does that mean you took no AI for weeks 1 to 14 - or is the starting week 15 talking about Prami? If so you have your culprit, and it is not the deca. A dose of 700 test e and 425 deca per week would require roughly 0.41 mg Adex EOD - rounded up to 0.5 EOD would have been good. If you didn't take that then it was the estrogen from all that test that caused the gyno, deca probably didn't contribute much if anything at all.

And let me be a dissenting voice on the mast. The test, tren, mast stack is a highly effective and popular one. I don't believe you don't need the mast because you are taking tren, I think the opposite - you include the mast because you are taking tren. It makes the whole ride smoother and lessens sides from the tren, makes the test "feel" like a higher dose, and if you are lean enough already will harden you up further.

Now the issue of if you really need five drugs to achieve your goals is another discussion. Probably not, and as you've seen when you get nasty sides you have no clue what is causing them since you didn't figure out how to manage the sides with test only. The other side of the argument is all these testosterone analogues were developed with the goal of trying to get the good (anabolic effects) without getting the bad (androgenic and estrogenic) effects of testosterone. There is a school of thought that says one should wisely choose compounds to run, to get the benefit of all that developmental science, while minimizing the downsides. Having your cake and eating it too.

Adex from day 1 .5 ED, when I noticed gyno forming in week 15 I upped to 1.0 ED and added .5 prami. Essentially has not improved my gyno at all. Part of me thinks it***8217;s the Labs orals quality. Will be looking into pharma grade AI next time and prami from the start if I go with 19-nor again.

 

[scorob777]

I'd suggest you get a blood test. 0.5 mg/day Adex is way too much for your 700 test and 425 deca. 1mg/day even moreso.

After you PCT look into raloxifene to zap your gyno.

 

[Fadelikedirk]

I'd suggest you get a blood test. 0.5 mg/day Adex is way too much for your 700 test and 425 deca. 1mg/day even moreso.

After you PCT look into raloxifene to zap your gyno.

Not sure if I have anyone with access to it but ill do my best, what would say is the second choice? Also going to look into blood test tomorrow and probably again 6 weeks after pct.

 

[Fadelikedirk]

I'd suggest you get a blood test. 0.5 mg/day Adex is way too much for your 700 test and 425 deca. 1mg/day even moreso.

After you PCT look into raloxifene to zap your gyno.

Ok I have my blood test form just need to make the appointment for this week, what numbers should I be looking for under estrogen and progesterone. Doctor said the range given is for females so they wouldn***8217;t know what mine should look like mid cycle. What***8217;s normal range?

 

[Fadelikedirk]

Holy shit, shame on me too ^^^^ Very important
No AI



Ok Tankman , Don't you ever go against what I say... ya hear me

Ha LOL I'm only KIDDING Isn't this a good place for all to learn. Remember I said IMOP about the need for Mast. Well it just might have it's benefit if the user is very experienced and knows his body, and has done a few Tren cycles. It's that the average guy isn't seasoned / or has the tolerance yet build to need MORE then the Tren at the same time. Proof of this in this situation is that OP now says the Tren sides are already beginning to cause a problem in and of itself. In this case I would of let the Mast and gone with a lighter dose of Tren OR just use the Mast. For a first go ????

Enough of that Tankman knows what he speaks of and I don't ultimately disagree with Tank, so it turns out a good discussion and thought process here. WE are all wired different. I like one new compound at a time. Adding one per cycle or two when I am seasoned with another as tankman said which is the culprit on any cycle.

Good Luck, good thread

Was using AI throughout I***8217;ll just assume the switching of compounds without any tolerance or knowledge of how it will affect me caused my estrogen to rise and I think my brand of ugl adex is low quality. Learned a lot from this cycle good and bad haha.

I***8217;m getting blood work done for the first time tomorrow when I get results back what numbers should I be looking for under estro , protest and test. Also any other numbers?