Stable blood levels of steroids, desired . Why ?

[ziko]

I've been a lurker for some time but decided to join the discussions.

First thing I would like to talk about with you guys is regarding the pursue of having stable blood levels of steroids to ensure less sides, better outcomes, or so its said.

For example, many argue that test prop gives less sides being injected EOD , but according to this site ***. not allowed***/ , test prop fluctuates a lot (50 mg EOD of test prop varies a lot in comparison with test enanthate at 50 mg) - attached images.

Personal experience, I do experience less sides with test prop even though it fluctuates a lot in my system given EOD injections and get more sides (like acne) with test enanthate -more stable . One half assed theory is that stable blood levels are able to "ticke" the AR in a constant way, being able to produce side effects more so than with less stable blood levels.

Also ,from what I've gathered, endogenous test fluctuates a lot too, so what is it with this 'keeping blood levels stable" approach being desirable ?

 

[jp4355]

Longer Ester Test is More Anabolic, by virtue of it's Longer Half-life.

Shorter Ester Test reaches Peak Blood Plasma Levels quicker.
But aren't as Anabolic, because they Clear your System quicker.............................. JP
P.S.
Endogenous Test will vary throughout the day.
Circadian Rhythms will effect Total Testosterone Levels throughout the day, as well as other Bodily Functions.
Being at their highest in the Morning, and then decreasing as the day goes on.

 

[jp4355]

What you are seeing in those Graphs are Stable Hormone Levels.

Otherwise known as "Steady State", when Hormone Levels fluctuate in a 2-Fold Window.

Sounds like you were thinking that Stable Hormone Levels meant staying at a Certain Level Consistently....................... JP

 

[TryinToGetStrong]

You should have adjusted your calculation for prop to be ED. That would give you levels more comparable to shooting the long esters EOD.

Here's what it looks like at 25mg ED.

Similar consistency and higher levels.

 

[ziko]

You should have adjusted your calculation for prop to be ED. That would give you levels more comparable to shooting the long esters EOD.

Here's what it looks like at 25mg ED.

Similar consistency and higher levels.

Hey man

I wasn't asking how do one maintain 'more' stable blood levels ,because as you clearly pointed out ,that's achievable . I was asking why is this a sought for outcome ? I was hoping to receive some opinions based on research.

 

[TryinToGetStrong]

Hey man

I wasn't asking how do one maintain 'more' stable blood levels ,because as you clearly pointed out ,that's achievable . I was asking why is this a sought for outcome ? I was hoping to receive some opinions based on research.

Hey, man!

The longer you wait between pins, the larger the rebound between test and E2.

For example:

You pin 200 once per week, your test shoots to 2000 and your E2 shoots up to 125 and you get possible high E2 sides.

Then, you don’t shoot for a week and your test falls to 300 and you possibly feel like shit again from low test.

Or, you shoot 100 2x per week and your test never goes over 1100 and your E2 stays maintainable at 60.

Then, you shoot again and it’s only fallen to 600 and you don’t have the lethargy or other low T sides.

Again, just an example and completely made up numbers.

 

[ziko]

Hey, man!

The longer you wait between pins, the larger the rebound between test and E2.

For example:

You pin 200 once per week, your test shoots to 2000 and your E2 shoots up to 125 and you get possible high E2 sides.

Then, you don’t shoot for a week and your test falls to 300 and you possibly feel like shit again from low test.

Or, you shoot 100 2x per week and your test never goes over 1100 and your E2 stays maintainable at 60.

Then, you shoot again and it’s only fallen to 600 and you don’t have the lethargy or other low T sides.

Again, just an example and completely made up numbers.

It's true that if you let the test go quite low , you'll notice less energy,etc. That

Regarding E2-
A hypothesis : Keeping blood levels stable allow the chance for aromatization to occur constantly , however when you get ups and downs(for ex with test prop) aromatization doesn't occur so heavily as the blood levels are NOT stable so it doesn't provide a constant substrate (test). Is there any research which would suggest one or the other ?

 

[Mycelium]

Hey man

I wasn't asking how do one maintain 'more' stable blood levels ,because as you clearly pointed out ,that's achievable . I was asking why is this a sought for outcome ? I was hoping to receive some opinions based on research.

Most research available is lacking. The majority I have found attempts to keep a male inside the "normal" range and disregards levels. Taking a male from the top of about 1,000 ng/dL down to 400 ng/dL over 8 weeks cycles is seen as a success. Even tho age specific ranges have been established only the "post pubescent" range is looked at. basically 20-80 years old boiled down into one HUGE range.

The creation of other things like estrogen is what's controlled by more "stable" blood levels.

Our natural fluctuation is basically a daily boom of testosterone and then a conversion and usage. There is never a huge amount of test to be converted to large amounts of anything else for extended times.

I'm on TRT with test cyp. I have "elevated" levels of testosterone for long periods of time compared to the natural fluctuation. I have to try to control estrogen. An endocrinologist said it is completely possible to have testosterone levels 1/2 of a morning high at night time
Example being a morning level of 900 ng/dL with an evening of 450 ng/dL.

 

[PapaNoel]

Example being a morning level of 900 ng/dL with an evening of 450 ng/dL.

That kinda sucks since all my tests have been done very early in the morning (requirement for certain other tests included).
And mine is low looking at the age chart but in reality it could be even lower ?

 

[ziko]

Most research available is lacking. The majority I have found attempts to keep a male inside the "normal" range and disregards levels. Taking a male from the top of about 1,000 ng/dL down to 400 ng/dL over 8 weeks cycles is seen as a success. Even tho age specific ranges have been established only the "post pubescent" range is looked at. basically 20-80 years old boiled down into one HUGE range.

The creation of other things like estrogen is what's controlled by more "stable" blood levels.

Our natural fluctuation is basically a daily boom of testosterone and then a conversion and usage. There is never a huge amount of test to be converted to large amounts of anything else for extended times.

I'm on TRT with test cyp. I have "elevated" levels of testosterone for long periods of time compared to the natural fluctuation. I have to try to control estrogen. An endocrinologist said it is completely possible to have testosterone levels 1/2 of a morning high at night time
Example being a morning level of 900 ng/dL with an evening of 450 ng/dL.

When I'm on long esters I tend to notice side effects like acne,oily skin,etc more frequently than on short esters like test prop. Have you tried TRT'ing with test prop ? I know it's uncommon ,but it may be a better "mimicker" of natural test. I tend to cruise on test prop. It's a pain in the ass(literally) to inject it EOD, but I found that if I inject slowly and massage the area afterwards for 1-2 minnutes, I get almost zero PIP/soreness.

 

[Milton]

When I'm on long esters I tend to notice side effects like acne,oily skin,etc more frequently than on short esters like test prop. Have you tried TRT'ing with test prop ? I know it's uncommon ,but it may be a better "mimicker" of natural test. I tend to cruise on test prop. It's a pain in the ass(literally) to inject it EOD, but I found that if I inject slowly and massage the area afterwards for 1-2 minnutes, I get almost zero PIP/soreness.

Why do you massage the pin area after you pin?

 

[ziko]

Why do you massage the pin area after you pin?

Have you injected test prop ? It tends to cause soreness/pip/lump where you inject it . By injecting it slowly and massaging afterwards you lower the chances of experiencing undesired effects likes those mentioned earlier.

 

[casanovaaa]

Have you injected test prop ? It tends to cause soreness/pip/lump where you inject it . By injecting it slowly and massaging afterwards you lower the chances of experiencing undesired effects likes those mentioned earlier.

Lots of folks around here cycling, does anyone else massage the pin site after pinning?
Ive never done it personally.

 

[PapaNoel]

Lots of folks around here cycling, does anyone else massage the pin site after pinning?
Ive never done it personally.

I did it after reading people do it here but honestly, I cant tell a difference what so ever. So i stopped

 

[ziko]

I did it after reading people do it here but honestly, I cant tell a difference what so ever. So i stopped

I massage the area only after test prop . After every other steroid, I just pin the fucker and I'm done.

 

[LateStart]

To speak on the stable value argument.....if your values fluctuate wildly (on cycle when values are double "normal" high ranges) then an ai becomes impossible to dial in. Since ai is not dialed in then estrogen and bloat get out of control. This is why everyone struggles to achieve a steady HIGH state on cycle and steady normal on cruise. It's about dialing in your AI.
As far as rubbing the injection site I never do it unless the compound is creating a lot of PIP.
Just my two cents

 

[ziko]

To speak on the stable value argument.....if your values fluctuate wildly (on cycle when values are double "normal" high ranges) then an ai becomes impossible to dial in. Since ai is not dialed in then estrogen and bloat get out of control. This is why everyone struggles to achieve a steady HIGH state on cycle and steady normal on cruise. It's about dialing in your AI.
As far as rubbing the injection site I never do it unless the compound is creating a lot of PIP.
Just my two cents

Do you have any proof that given the same dosage of testosterone , fluctuating values give more estrogen than steady state ?

 

[LateStart]

Do you have any proof that given the same dosage of testosterone , fluctuating values give more estrogen than steady state ?

Proof? Try it and see. There is little proof of the majority of our discussions on here. If it were proven wed just google it and move on For me......I bloat more when I pin higher volume less frequency on the same.dose of ai. Would this be the same for.everyone? NO
100mg test puts me at 1300 5 days after shot. Is this normal? NO
Just sharing my personal experience. Unfortunately I have no proof or I wouldve shared it Full disclosure bro

 

[scorob777]

100 mg's Test E plus 2x 250 IU HCG per week put me at 670 3.5 days after shot - so I'd say that clomid is proving very effective for you Late Start.

 

[LateStart]

100 mg's Test E plus 2x 250 IU HCG per week put me at 670 3.5 days after shot - so I'd say that clomid is proving very effective for you Late Start.

Is test C....probably no difference. I'll let ya know how the test comes out this time. I go in for more bloodwork in a couple weeks. So far I've seen 1100 and 1300 around the 4 to 5 day mark. I pin once per week 100mg with daily clomid and no hcg.
Only other explanation I can think of is my blast still being in my system? I blast for 3 or 3.5 months then get bloodwork at the 6 month mark. So my blast would have to be sticking with me for 2 or 3 months? IDK