Started my first cycle ever, Test E, a few questions..

[Jakk]

Hey guys!

I am a 34 YO guy and after doing a lot of research I am now 2 weeks into this cycle:

wk1 tuesday 250 Test E
friday 250 Test E

wk2 tuesday 225 Test E
friday 225 Test E

wk3-12 tuesday 200 Test E
friday 200 Test E

wk3-14 EOD Adex 0.25

wk14-16 nolva(20) + clom(50) ED

The reason for the delayed Adex, the slightly decreasing test and the only 3 week PCT, is because I want to keep all dosages to an absolute minimum, as I want to see how my body will respond to these chemicals.
I have HCG ready in case my balls get small.
I tested my blood before I started, all seemed OK, except that my testosterone was a little low, (300) which may explain my increased energy that I feel every morning, literally since I started injecting.
After one week I seem to be able to lift heavier, is that too quick? Maybe placebo?

I don't want to use any pills, so a diana kickstart is not gonna happen, should I have used sustanon instead of test E to have more benefits from the beginning?
Interesting journey so far. ;-)

 

[tbonexl]

Pct isn't something you want to be minimal with bud. Pct is what recovers your natural test from being shut down! If anything you would want to run a longer pct instead of a shorter one!
Your whole concept of a cycle is sketchy. You want to run the least amount to see how your body reacts? Why did you even start a cycle then?
Tapering your dose with a long ester does nothing. It takes a long time to kick in so tapering the dose doesn't work like you think it would.
Not sure why you have hcg but don't want to run it till your balls shrink???

Sustanon wouldn't be a better alternative to test e . Sust has 4 esters in it. Most are long with a short ester that sends blood levels up and down. Makes for controlling estrogen a bit challenging.

Seriously if you were to change anything it would be the length of your pct! Atleast 4 weeks would be good 8f not longer.

 

[LateStart]

Tapering test E or C is completely pointless. If you want to do 400 then just do 400.......no need at all to start at 500. Yes.....week one is placebo. AI should be pretty much right out of the gate unless bloodwork suggests otherwise. Too late when you have tits. And for God's sake.......please extend your pct. I like your pct doses. You could even do 50mg on the Clomid for just week one then to 25 for 4 more weeks. This works best for me and works for everyone I know. Do not mess around with your recovery.

Having said all that.....300 is very low for your age. I would get confirmation on that level. If I were going to cycle before I tried fixing my test levels then I would commit to trt for life. Just for reference.....my level was more than double that at age 40. So, in your shoes, I would either abandone cycle and try to get my levels up (using Clomid for 6 weeks), or I would get dialed in on a trt protocol to resume after I cycled. Cycling at a natty of 300 is a pretty guaranteed way to land yourself on trt for life. Either way, you have some decisions to make and please fix your cycle up if you're going to stay on. Also, extend that pct.
Just saying what I would be thinking about in your shoes. Good luck bro.....and God bless

 

[scorob777]

Great feedback above, you should soak all that up. Especially the part about cycle and PCT with 300 test levels, you should fix that first if you are going to PCT, or blast & c***se if you are done with kids and are ok with TRT's upsides & downsides.

My feedback is around the HCG, PCT timing dosages & duration.

I respect that you want to do low doses, I get it. But HCG is not something that logic applies to. Flip it 180 degrees and accept that ideally you'd want to do as much and as often as you can afford and tolerate pinning. A practical minimum is 250 IU 2x/week. Otherwise you are just murdering your testicles, and with 300 TT to start with that's a bad move.

Regarding the tapering, to me this is more of a front load than a taper. I like front loading in general, but to do it effectively you really need to load up the front end, which means first one or two shots, not spread over four. This gets you up on curve faster, and works ok with long esters. The reason I wouldn't call it a taper is those typically pyramid down on the back end, which is really silly with a long ester - good that you are not doing that.

Here is what you blood levels will look like with your injection plan:

View attachment 567301

And here it is shifted to the left to look at PCT timing and duration.

View attachment 567302

Notice that you are really only taking a few days from week #12, and all of week #13 off. That's not long enough. When you start PCT at week #14 your level is 31.7 which is over double normal production, and at 300 TT may be like triple or quadruple your normal production. Then notice when you exit PCT 3 weeks later you are at 7.4, which would be half normal (i.e. still 50% suppressed), or in your case with 300 TT probably still 100% suppressed.

If you did that your PCT would be a complete flop, and as soon as you exited you'd shut down again and then recover slowly without PCT. It's not as bad as doing no PCT at all because those drugs will reactivate your testes for a while, but it is close to doing nothing.

What I'd suggest is you wait until start of week #16, then run a four week PCT. You can mess around with the doses and keep them low, perhaps something like clomid 50/25/25/25 and nolva 40/20/20/10.

So to summarize, don't try to minimize doses for HCG and PCT, and do get the timing right. Those things will have a more positive impact on your health.

 

[Jakk]

Thanks everyone! PCT changed to a full 4 weeks, and I will start later, week 15-16.

Arimidex is way harder to get here than I expected, seems like I am starting with adex in week 3 or 4, no other option. I have nolva, in case my nipples act up.

I had 3 injections so far, today I'll get the 4th. Today I woke up in a wet bed for the first time. ***128564;***128562;

About my low testo, 300 is so low that I am wondering if my decreased energy and being irritated quickly in the past year are a result of low testo. If that is the case then TRT is going to be my destiny anyway, I will test my blood PCT again and see where I am at.

Main reason for not wanting HCG was all those extra injections, but as I am getting used to the injections more and more, I might as well add hcg. Will hcg make my butt hurt for days like the testo E injections? Maybe I need to push the oil in slower..

Cheers

 

[freqfly]

Thanks everyone! PCT changed to a full 4 weeks, and I will start later, week 15-16.

Arimidex is way harder to get here than I expected, seems like I am starting with adex in week 3 or 4, no other option. I have nolva, in case my nipples act up.

I had 3 injections so far, today I'll get the 4th. Today I woke up in a wet bed for the first time. ***128564;***128562;

About my low testo, 300 is so low that I am wondering if my decreased energy and being irritated quickly in the past year are a result of low testo. If that is the case then TRT is going to be my destiny anyway, I will test my blood PCT again and see where I am at.

Main reason for not wanting HCG was all those extra injections, but as I am getting used to the injections more and more, I might as well add hcg. Will hcg make my butt hurt for days like the testo E injections? Maybe I need to push the oil in slower..

Cheers

HCG is pinned sub-q; no it doesn't hurt at all.

 

[Jakk]

HCG is pinned sub-q; no it doesn't hurt at all.

Good to know.

 

[scorob777]

HCG is water based and generally shot sub Q into your belly fat. Quick & easy.

I wouldn't sweat adex starting until week #3 or 4, should be perfect.

Waking up in a wet bed??? Nocturnal emissions? Trying to think positive here...

And as for energy and mood, nobody can say for sure - but how about 90% sure that's the issue. TRT has plenty of inconveniences and downsides, but if you are done with kids and can't beat 300 TT then it should greatly improve your life.

 

[Jakk]

The wet bed was def my first ever nightsweat, exactly 2 weeks after my first injection. So, starting hcg and adexbin week 3-4 then. Should I take small doses of nolva untill I get my hands on Adex?

 

[LateStart]

What are your other stats?
How long til you get adex?
Personally I don't think the nolva is gonna help much, if at all. If you get your adex soon then I would just wait if it were me. Many people tolerate high estro very well.......Just retain a shit load of water. The adex will get some of that water off of you. This will of course mean more to your appearance if you are at a low bfp.
Painful injections? Are you using 1cc each shot? Should get better soon......After a few shots each side As far as the adex goes......most of us get an estro rise when we get a test rise. So if your testosterone is going up then so is your estro. Most that do need an ai won't need much until week 3 or 4, but most don't feel shit until then either. You are feeling the rise already so I would expect your estro to be rising now as well..........if it is going to. Need bloodwork here to see.
Not sure why you started this cycle without all your gear. How is your diet? Remember to eat a ton if you want size. Little guys get on cycle and think they've gained a lot of muscle when they start retaining water. Don't fall into this trap. Eat eat and eat some more. Of bulking is your plan it is not gonna happen without a shit load of food. Healthy, bland foods and lots of them. Most of this eating is not going to bring any pleasure.....it is a means to an end. Strength and recovery both rapidly increase and if you aren't eating then the cycle is an almost complete failure. All your size falls off in weeks.
Sorry for the silly lecture. Just get blood work done, dial in an ai, eat like you are supposed to......and you will enjoy 75% better results than anyone else that cycles.
Best of luck bro

 

[DeepSea4Life]

Good to know.

And its water based.. you can use a short needle for this. No pain

 

[Jakk]

What are your other stats?
How long til you get adex?

Best of luck bro

1.87 cm, 86 kg. Muscled but not balanced, big chest and glutes but underdeveloped shoulders and arms.
My aim is to get more defined while increasing muscle mass. Eating a shitload of proteins, shakes, fish and vegetables. No need to get huge, but I want steady gains that I can keep, and I need to lose that bit of fat. I was already doing well and seeing lots of change the months before the cycle, so the cycle should be a boost.

Adex should arrive within 2 weeks, ready to go in week 3 or 4. No nightsweats last night.

My last tuesday injection was at the wrong spot, too much to the side. Still hurting and stiff now. Did fridays injection at a much slower pace (40 second per ML) no pain at all, so I need to take it slow.

 

[PapaNoel]

Seen twice people saying there is no pain shootin hcg.
Which makes me wonder...what is pain to you people ?

I use 29g insulin needle, I wouldn't say its "pain free", would I say it hurts ? Not really. Personally I'd label all injections under "discomfort".
You'll definitely feel it and honestly I feel no difference between 23g and 29g, sub-q or im, oil or water.

 

[PapaNoel]

My last tuesday injection was at the wrong spot, too much to the side. Still hurting and stiff now. Did fridays injection at a much slower pace (40 second per ML) no pain at all, so I need to take it slow.

If you haven't tried ventroglutes I would suggest trying it. The only site thats always pip free for me
Once you find it, so easy site as well.

 

[scorob777]

Seen twice people saying there is no pain shootin hcg.
Which makes me wonder...what is pain to you people ?

I use 29g insulin needle, I wouldn't say its "pain free", would I say it hurts ? Not really. Personally I'd label all injections under "discomfort".
You'll definitely feel it and honestly I feel no difference between 23g and 29g, sub-q or im, oil or water.

For HCG I use a 27g needle and go for a pinch of belly fat. Seems about 50/50 whether it is completely painless or there is a short sharp pain like I hit a nerve going in. I use BAC water and never have any PIP or redness/pain afterwards. So saying painless may be a bit of a white lie, sometimes the injection hurts a tiny bit. This aint no hobby for pussies.

 

[PapaNoel]

For HCG I use a 27g needle and go for a pinch of belly fat. Seems about 50/50 whether it is completely painless or there is a short sharp pain like I hit a nerve going in. I use BAC water and never have any PIP or redness/pain afterwards. So saying painless may be a bit of a white lie, sometimes the injection hurts a tiny bit. This aint no hobby for pussies.

The first hcg injections in my belly fat was completely painless but now its like it has hardened up the fat and its always that short sharp pain piercing trough. Also use BAC and never had any pip or redness after. Only get pip from the oil so far.
Haven't tried to shoot test sub-q though.