Started TRT @ 100mg/week. High Total E. How soon should I get E2 tested?

R

RickP

New member
After a year of low T levels and feeling like shit I convinced my urologist to put me on 100mg/week at 29 years old.
First few weeks have been incredible (got my gf scared of my libido lol), then it wore off a little, although I still feel 100 times better than before TRT. Perhaps I've just been more stressed from work and sleep though.

After 3 months I did my first blood test, right before my injection. T is 339 at my lowest, so my average should be ok. CBC and ********* panel are fine. However my Total estrogen is at 183pg/ml (range is <130).

I've done some research and it seems like my doc screwed up because he should have ordered an E2 sensitive to go with it (high E1 and high E3 not being as problematic). Unfortunately last time my doc just told me we'll monitor the levels in 3 months and I had not read up on E management yet to suggest an E2 test.

Questions:

1) Should I just call my doctor immediately and demand an E2 test? He seems easy going but I haven't tried to pull out the "uh... i did my own research and..." card yet. Or 183 total E is nothing to worry about and I should just ask for E2 in 3 months?

2) How effective is injecting more often on E levels? In the sticky it is reported as being pretty dramatic (>115pg/ml E2 down to 27). Is this consistent?

2b) Why do I sometimes see E5D being recommended instead of E3.5D for sides/mood? Scientifically speaking I don't understand how it could be better except for unnecessary scar tissue and pain.

3) How common is it to get high E2 on these puny Test Cyp doses? I was under the impression that I wouldn't need an AI for doses like these. Even people at 200mg/week don't always need an AI.

4) Is it worth trying to pin more often, wait for E2 levels to stabilize and then get an update E2 under these conditions or should I just get my E2 tested asap?


Please help. I think I'm getting nocebo-induced gyno now :)
 
1) It is good information, but unless you have actual sides, like gyno, I wouldn't freak out. Total E is nearly worthless for us. You need the Sensitive E test. Ideally from Quest in my opinion.

2) It is effective. I inject EOD and it lowered my sensitive E a good bit.
2b) Everyone is different. I have a friend who LOVES once a week 100mg, whereas others like EOD, or E3.5D. Dr. Crisler sometimes says that guys with higher SHBG seem to feel better with the larger pulse of T. For me, EOD keeps my estrogen in check.

3) How fat are you? That has a direct impact on the T->E conversion which is called aromatization - caused by the aromatase enzymes - presence being highest in fat. Bodyfat aside, everyone is different. At 100mg T a week, injected EOD, my total t is between 900-950. Some guys don't get over 700 with that dose. Every body is different - hence the need for blood work requirements.

4) I freaked out alot when I started, constantly adjusting. You need baselines. You don't have a proper estrogen reading on your current protocol. I would get that first. Or... if you are really on edge about it, try E3.5D. People seem to love it. I still do EOD but have strongly considered going to E3.5D. BTW - if you increase injection frequency, don't use large gauge needles. Most guys switch to something like an insulin syringe - .5cc, 29g, 1/2in.

-Jim
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the info!

1) No "clear" sides (as you said, I lack a baseline, so I can't say stuff like "my libido is definitely lower") and especially no gyno, so I guess I can call the doc and get an E2 test.

2) After that I will see whether i should switch to E3.5D. I pinned my VG about 10 times by now and i still hate it with a passion. It's mostly painless, worst case a little sting, but I get so fucking tense when I am about to pin myself. Must be because I hate needles (I usually look away when somebody else is doing it). Will look into have my gf pin my glutes in that case.

3) I lifts weights regularly and I've been bulking for a while. Maybe 20%? Anyway I'm already on top of it, started my cut last week because my gf told me my snoring has been getting worse lol.

4) I've read about that, but how exactly do you force the oil out of a 29g needle??? 25g is already a struggle.
 
You could just get your own blood work. See my signature below. Cheap and fast. Or call your doc abs ask to run E2 and everything else again. When pinning once a week I recommend checking peak and trough levels. There can be a big difference between the two points.

Don't panic about the Total Estrogen. That doesn't tell you very much.

Injecting more often helps a lot of guys. The downside is that pinning frequently gets tiring pretty fast. But you need to pin more than just your VG regardless. Quads, Delts, VG and Glutes are all good spots. And you can pin them all yourself, although glutes are easier if someone can help you. Delts are my favorite spo, but you have to be able to manage the syringe with just one hand.

If it were me, I would get your peak blood work on your current protocol just to have that reference point and then switch to more frequent injections.
 
RickP said:
4) I've read about that, but how exactly do you force the oil out of a 29g needle??? 25g is already a struggle.
Click to expand...

Its not an issue. It comes out. A bit slow to fill so I set it down and brush my teeth. The injection takes about 10 seconds.

-Jim
 
My insurance covers the visits and the tests so I will try first to get my doc to order the test. If I ever up the frequency (I probably will even if my test E2 is in order cause I'm curious) I will look into other sites and subQ which looks really interesting. Right now the injection spot is fully healed by the following week so I don't feel the need to learn to pin in another spot.

One question: How many hours after the injection would you peak? Is it fine to test 24hrs after the injection?

Also bonus question: I suppose E2 levels also fluctuate when injecting once a week. Does it fluctuate linearly along with T levels (plus perhaps some delay due to the time it takes for aromatization) or is it more complex than that?
 
48 hours would be the peak...


it looks like you may need to incorporate an ai.. tough to believe at 100mg a week..


what are your stats?? age weight height bf
 
5'7", 190lbs (down from 195lbs when I was tested). bf is probably around 20%... this bulk has been going on for too long!

I definitely want to avoid an AI. There's no long term studies about low doses of AI for men right?
 
Virginian said:
It works. It takes some pressure and it flows out slowly, but it does work. (I use a 29 gauge 1/2 inch needle.)
Click to expand...

Where on your body do you inject with a 1/2 inch needle? Is that for your delts?

I'm on an E4D protocol so I'd like to not poke so many holes in my glutes... Id like to learn how to pin delts as well.
 
babyface58 said:
Where on your body do you inject with a 1/2 inch needle? Is that for your delts?

I'm on an E4D protocol so I'd like to not poke so many holes in my glutes... Id like to learn how to pin delts as well.
Click to expand...

Virtually anywhere. I did delts for a while but didn't really like it. Now I just pinch a little piece of fat on either side of my belly button and go in at a slight angle there. It would technically be a subq injection, instead of IM. I noticed no different on my blood work from either option.

There is no learning for delts btw... just stick it straight in. Its a small enough syringe where you shouldn't go too deep. Some might disagree, but at that depth, I didn't aspirate either. When you do subq into fat like the stomach, you definitely do not need to aspirate.
-Jim
 
babyface58 said:
Where on your body do you inject with a 1/2 inch needle? Is that for your delts?

I'm on an E4D protocol so I'd like to not poke so many holes in my glutes... Id like to learn how to pin delts as well.
Click to expand...

I pin quads, Delts and ventroglute. Delts are really easy and my favorite. Only downside is that you have to pin with one hand. I put my elbows/forearms on a counter or table and cross them to brace myself. So if I pin the left delt it is with my right hand.

Ventroglute is scary the first time because it is trickier to find. But an easy location to pin.

Glutes are another good one if you are flexible enough to reach them or can get someone else to do it for you.

check out the following site for more info:

http://www.spotinjections.com
 
We don't have sensitive estradiol in Canada. Only regular Estradiol tests. It's a good tool to use if you have it at your disposal.
 
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