Starting testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) (with script)

[soulspyder]

Starting TRT (with script)

I am 2 weeks into TRT and finally starting to feel good again. 35 and had run havoc/mdrol/hdrol in past. Honestly, thought my post cycle therapy (pct) had been ok, apparently though it is my natural level at 200.

Anyway, doc is starting me at 150mg test E per week and testing again in a month. I want to get test as high T level as I can in the end (not looking for 1500, but 1000 or 800 would be good). I know they will only shoot for about 6-800 even though higher is usually optimal. (gun shy from D EA) I know HAVOC will shut you down, as will DHEA. My question is would 10-20 or havoc for about 1 week prior to test help me show SLIGHTLY lower? I know it shuts you down but I don't want to be SHUT DOWN, just a *little* lower than actual. Same with DHEA at low dose like 50.

Not looking for any gains from the Epi/Havoc or DHEA, just want to lower my numbers 20% or something. Assuming this is valid logic, how many days before blood work would you stop to let levels decrease 3 days or so?

Thanks for advice. Not a noob to PH but I am to TRT and doing something this short.

 

[soulspyder]

Plenty of views but no feedback. Not sourcing, not looking for how to run PH or Test, just wanting to know how to make sure I come in "low" range still (I am low anyway and genuinely need to be on TRT).

I do have some old Mdrol and Pplex as well if a few days of that would be better than Havoc.

Again, not looking for cycle advice, just feedback on if this makes sense and will be effective.

 

[CHIP WADOWSKI]

plenty of views but no feedback. Not sourcing, not looking for how to run ph or test, just wanting to know how to make sure i come in "low" range still (i am low anyway and genuinely need to be on trt).

I do have some old mdrol and pplex as well if a few days of that would be better than havoc.

Again, not looking for cycle advice, just feedback on if this makes sense and will be effective.

i dont think you are deliberately being ignored. I just think that the true trt minded members of this forum may not have any experience or knowledge of those supplements.

 

[MoparMuscle]

No idea. All that shit is super liver toxic though...

How can anything "shut you down" when there is nothing to shut down as it's being taken from an injection... It wouldn't. Not the best idea in the world to try and trick your Dr dude if you don't feel right with a mid-high normal range and think a high-normal will fix that them find a less conservative Dr.

 

[funkymonk]

No idea. All that shit is super liver toxic though...

How can anything "shut you down" when there is nothing to shut down as it's being taken from an injection... It wouldn't. Not the best idea in the world to try and trick your Dr dude if you don't feel right with a mid-high normal range and think a high-normal will fix that them find a less conservative Dr.

Exactly.

If you're really interested in manipulating your test test results, just alter your injection date in relation to your bloodwork date. IE: increase the gap between your bloodwork and last injection, without letting your doc know.

 

[MoparMuscle]

Monkey, personally I don't think it's a good idea to help someone "rig the system" as it discredits all the HRT guys that are honestly just looking to improve the quality of life.

 

[DADAWG]

I am 2 weeks into TRT and finally starting to feel good again. 35 and had run havoc/mdrol/hdrol in past. Honestly, thought my post cycle therapy (pct) had been ok, apparently though it is my natural level at 200.

Anyway, doc is starting me at 150mg test E per week and testing again in a month. I want to get test as high T level as I can in the end (not looking for 1500, but 1000 or 800 would be good). I know they will only shoot for about 6-800 even though higher is usually optimal. (gun shy from D EA) I know HAVOC will shut you down, as will DHEA. My question is would 10-20 or havoc for about 1 week prior to test help me show SLIGHTLY lower? I know it shuts you down but I don't want to be SHUT DOWN, just a *little* lower than actual. Same with DHEA at low dose like 50.

Not looking for any gains from the Epi/Havoc or DHEA, just want to lower my numbers 20% or something. Assuming this is valid logic, how many days before blood work would you stop to let levels decrease 3 days or so?

Thanks for advice. Not a noob to PH but I am to TRT and doing something this short.

the trt allready will shut you down . the prohormones will not lower test levels.

 

[TR2838]

Monkey, personally I don't think it's a good idea to help someone "rig the system" as it discredits all the HRT guys that are honestly just looking to improve the quality of life.

Mopar I have a lot of respect for you.. I learn a lot from your posts.. But, I disagree with you on this one.. The 'system' doesn't work these doctors don't know what's best for us and when they do, their hands are tied bc they are scared of some agency looking over thier shoulder.. Worried about numbers.. For example: Why do they only want the test value for the morning, when it is highest, as if we should only feel good in the morning.. It's crazy! Why do they write a script according to the peak instead of the trough.. I want to feel good all the time. Not just some of the time.. I feel pretty strong about this after being dicked around by 'the system' for three months.. Getting shots EOW and getting blood drawn 3 days after my shot, having my script lowered bc I tested over 800! Eh, I could go on and on but I'll stop there.. That being said, the OPs original plan was nuts and I hope he doesn't hurt his health while
trying to optimize it with TRT.. No offense Intended, I hope this is not taken the wrong way

 

[MoparMuscle]

I disagree. If your Dr won't do the right thing or is providing sloppy care you don't try to "trick" him into the care you want. What the OP should do is is seek out a better Dr. If he's in the US he could for example contact Chip, who might not be so conservative. What is considered healthy and normal "range" will vary from Dr to Dr and clinic to clinic, it's somewhat subjective.

An example: you are diabetic and the type of care your Dr gives isn't working (your always lightheaded and moody), you talk to him and he won't change anything. Do you put yourself into a dietetic comma to receive good care from him or do you seek out new care?

 

[TR2838]

Looking for Doctors that know even half of what you, Chip, and some others on this board know is very expensive, time consuming, and extremely frustrating to the point where I was very close to spitting in my last docs face.. No exaggeration either..
I guess all I can say is thank God for Chip and his Docs and their common sensed approach to TRT/HRT.. I guess that's your original point! Point taken... Agreed

 

[cjw2021]

lol dhea will not shut you down. And I don't know why you'd run a prohormone when you have the real thing.

 

[MoparMuscle]

lol dhea will not shut you down. And I don't know why you'd run a prohormone when you have the real thing.

TRT can't really be compared to an oral roid (which by the way can be super liver toxic even if "legal" as a designer) or "the real thing" (a juicer on "test"). A guy on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) goes typically from a sub 300 total test level to a 700-1200 level on 125-250mg a replacement therapy a week. A guy juicing "test" goes to a lot higher level, because they would take 500-800mg a week (twice to almost 6 times as much) plus maybe something or 3 somethings more exotic also in a large dose.

It might feel like your "on something" hardcore if you've lived with low test for years when you first start. More energy and more muscle but it's going to level off and be just normal.

Just to clarify because I'm feeling cheeky tonight haha


Sorry, I'll log off now and fuck my wife

 

[soulspyder]

Monkey, personally I don't think it's a good idea to help someone "rig the system" as it discredits all the HRT guys that are honestly just looking to improve the quality of life.

Please note that I really do have low T and need to be on the TRT. I am just wanting to make sure I make it to high normal and not just barely within range. I do realize testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is not a cycle.

Not a DHEA user normally, so my bad on that one - was just a thought based on an aparently misguided BB.cm post (surprise). I know havoc can shut you down (past experience), but I will just let it ride for now and go with the plan.

Thanks to all for the replies too. I will just let things fall where they do and go from there. I still have some T production or I wouldnt be just shy 200 but clearly not enough. By shut down I gues I should have more accurately stated lowered *slightly* which is different...

 

[MoparMuscle]

Just looked at your first post again. 2 weeks in? Give it 5 weeks to kick in then test. Some guys 150mg a week will get you pretty high. Just saw a post on here about a guy on 125mg a week that tested at like 1200-1400 (I can't remember look at recent threads you'll see it) On the 7th day after test.

 

[MoparMuscle]

Nothing wrong with dhea, good support to add low dose to long term HRT

 

[soulspyder]

Just looked at your first post again. 2 weeks in? Give it 5 weeks to kick in then test. Some guys 150mg a week will get you pretty high. Just saw a post on here about a guy on 125mg a week that tested at like 1200-1400 (I can't remember look at recent threads you'll see it) On the 7th day after test.

Doc has first follow up blood work for 1 month, unfortunately I dont have any imput for when the test is. I did get an afternoon appointment 8 days from what will be the last injection prior (not intentional - that's just what they had.)

P.s. If doc doesnt do me right, I will be talking with Chip. As this is a medical thing, I already have an special approval to get this covered for my regular doc (wow the hoops at insurance even when you really need it).

Thanks all for the candid and honest advice. I will take it to heart.

 

[MoparMuscle]

While 1 month might not be ideal I'm sure it's fine. Let us know how it goes, I hope its high-normal and also makes you feel right (much, much more important then the number). Also 8 days after the inj will be the lowest point possible for testsotone levels, shoot your Dr built it in with a late test date so you know it will be lower then most of the week..... Last I did a test I did it on day 2.5 after injection because I wanted peak numbers not the lowest.... Any AI?

Also I know Chip does not take insurance (many clinics don't), worth it though.

 

[DeusMalo]

Just looked at your first post again. 2 weeks in? Give it 5 weeks to kick in then test. Some guys 150mg a week will get you pretty high. Just saw a post on here about a guy on 125mg a week that tested at like 1200-1400 (I can't remember look at recent threads you'll see it) On the 7th day after test.

Yeah I posted that about the dude being that high on 125mg- for me it's weird. I had test drop after a month at 200 and I was below the range. finally started going up at 400, but got to a whopping 680 something. I know, no Aromatase inhibitor (AI), no Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), but that's why I'm with Maximus.

My e was in line though at 200mg, plus I always have a high tolerance for things meaning I metabolize quicky - anything with a noticeable half life (and I've taking many things) I half life things out at the low end of the range or lower. So dose and frequency truly need to be customized for an individual by an expert who *doesn't* weight average/normal over the individual - like what Chip does is a great example.

We have to remember half life's, dosages, other factors are all based on small representative (of population) groups - not everyone.

Sorry Mopar,wasn't lecturing you - just used your quote to make a point about extremes and where most docs eff up.

 

[cjw2021]

Lol a prohormone will only increase that hormone level to a point, and then it will stop metabolizing into it's metabolite. The body is not going to convert it into excessive desired end products.

 

[cjw2021]

Deus what is your SHBG level? I feel that I metabolize testosterone very quickly too.