Test/Deca Cycle Expectations

[Wrasse02]

Im going to be running a 16 week Test/Deca cycle

Have been doing trt for about 2 years at 200mg/wk, so I do not have a PCT planned.
First cycle was 500mg/wk of test E
Second cycle was Test E and Tren E

I plan on doing
500mg/wk of Test C
500mg/wk of Deca
for 16 weeks.

I have, and always have letro on hand for AI
and I also have liquid prami




I've read a lot that deca is typically used to add mass/strength. I'm still working on my diet plan, as it should be some time before I get my goodies. But is adding 25lbs a realistic expectation as long as I continue to up the calories?

I cut down from 240lbs down to 215ish and have been eating at maintenance for a few months now. And im looking to bulk and add a large amount of mass, as, next time I cut, I would like to compete somewhere locally.



Currently
217lbs at 14% bf

 

[tbonexl]

Letro is way overkill for your dosage. An ai isn't something to have on hand. I suggest picking up adex or aromasin. 25 lbs in 16 weeks is possible bit not probable. My guess would be a lot of fat and water weight especially if your not using an ai. If you end up running into problems, it's too late to try to fix with an ai. It's more of an estrogen management tool.

 

[halfwit]

Only way you'd see a true 25lbs of lean mass in 16 weeks is if you have amazing genetics or can benefit from "noob gains", where you'd be underweight. You probably will see the scale move that much, but it won't stay as some will be fat and glycogen if everything else is perfect.

Ten pounds of LBM is a very realistic goal for retainable mass once the extra glycogen depletes and any excess fat is burned off. Pretty much what tbone said, lol.

 

[Revelation Genetics]

Only way you'd see a true 25lbs of lean mass in 16 weeks is if you have amazing genetics or can benefit from "noob gains", where you'd be underweight. You probably will see the scale move that much, but it won't stay as some will be fat and glycogen if everything else is perfect.

Ten pounds of LBM is a very realistic goal for retainable mass once the extra glycogen depletes and any excess fat is burned off. Pretty much what tbone said, lol.

So when you say that the only way one would gain true 25lbs lean mass during a 16 weeker is if they are "Noob" gains or if someone just had amazing genetics? I basically repeated what you said, I understand that but the reason I say this is because me personally, I gained 40lbs my first cycle, retained everything but 8-10lbs months after the cycle was finished and went from 189lbs to 231lbs but in 6 weeks.

Some, maybe more than some people are going to come up with some reason why this occurred with me or tell me that it wasn't all muscle but I had bf measurements taken before cycle, during and after to monitor everything possible. I am a man all about DETAIL and am frequently called a perfectionist but, if what you're saying is true kind of pushing aside any backlash I may receive for saying this, I would say I have pretty good genetics. I always have though this but, more so proved it to myself after I really got serious into lifting especially after high school when I thought then I was as serious as it got. I have had seasoned bodybuilders in my time off, with things going on in life like they do at a point when I had stopped lifting also while in my normal routine come and tell me that if they had my genetics they would hold championships so on and ect.

I'm not going to steal this thread, I have said enough but, I absolutely cannot wait until I hook up with 3J. I have mentioned it several times to him, I don't believe Ive gotten any responses but what he doesn't know yet is that he is going to be laying out a nutritional plan for me as well. Similar to some of the others I've seen he has helped. What a fucking genius that guy is. I mean a picture is worth a thousand words and that guy knows his shit. For REAL!

 

[Revelation Genetics]

Im going to be running a 16 week Test/Deca cycle

Have been doing trt for about 2 years at 200mg/wk, so I do not have a PCT planned.
First cycle was 500mg/wk of test E
Second cycle was Test E and Tren E

I plan on doing
500mg/wk of Test C
500mg/wk of Deca
for 16 weeks.

I have, and always have letro on hand for AI
and I also have liquid prami




I've read a lot that deca is typically used to add mass/strength. I'm still working on my diet plan, as it should be some time before I get my goodies. But is adding 25lbs a realistic expectation as long as I continue to up the calories?

I cut down from 240lbs down to 215ish and have been eating at maintenance for a few months now. And im looking to bulk and add a large amount of mass, as, next time I cut, I would like to compete somewhere locally.



Currently
217lbs at 14% bf

You have a couple cycles under your belt, that is good but I want to give you my experience with what I did. I once did a test and deca cycle, and dbol for my oral. I have GP stuff and at the time it was very legit and good to go. I noticed the usual with the test prop and dbol but the deca, which did make me kind of puffy looking did not give me the results that I expected at all. I almost felt as if I might not even include it. I know that it was real because it shut me down SO SO hard.

My advise to you is to stick with the plan, what you have planned and eat right! I cannot stress that enough. Lift with intensity and I am sure you will see better results than I did once upon a time. It is not that I didn't get the results because I did, but for deca having heard everyone up-talk it so much I just expected more but I was still fairly new to it then. You are about where I was at cycle wise when I began with deca. It may have been my body chemistry and everyone is different but don't lose focus, stay where you should and that is a given, stick to the cycle and eat mountains but of the right food groups of course.

I really wish you luck my friend, I hope it is a great cycle. One for the books, right!!?? RIGHT!

 

[halfwit]

So when you say that the only way one would gain true 25lbs lean mass during a 16 weeker is if they are "Noob" gains or if someone just had amazing genetics? I basically repeated what you said, I understand that but the reason I say this is because me personally, I gained 40lbs my first cycle, retained everything but 8-10lbs months after the cycle was finished and went from 189lbs to 231lbs but in 6 weeks.

Some, maybe more than some people are going to come up with some reason why this occurred with me or tell me that it wasn't all muscle but I had bf measurements taken before cycle, during and after to monitor everything possible. I am a man all about DETAIL and am frequently called a perfectionist but, if what you're saying is true kind of pushing aside any backlash I may receive for saying this, I would say I have pretty good genetics. I always have though this but, more so proved it to myself after I really got serious into lifting especially after high school when I thought then I was as serious as it got. I have had seasoned bodybuilders in my time off, with things going on in life like they do at a point when I had stopped lifting also while in my normal routine come and tell me that if they had my genetics they would hold championships so on and ect.

I'm not going to steal this thread, I have said enough but, I absolutely cannot wait until I hook up with 3J. I have mentioned it several times to him, I don't believe Ive gotten any responses but what he doesn't know yet is that he is going to be laying out a nutritional plan for me as well. Similar to some of the others I've seen he has helped. What a fucking genius that guy is. I mean a picture is worth a thousand words and that guy knows his shit. For REAL!

You can be extremely meticulous and an Uber perfectionist, but 40lbs in a month and a half isn't possible man. I'm not calling you a liar, but the energy demands to do so are roughly equivalent to that of burning a pound of fat (~3600kcal) last I read (~500kcal materials) , the rest is the actual energy demand on the body's to assemble the protein into tissues.

This puts you at about 145,000 calories over maintenance in those 6 weeks, or 3428 kcal per day above and beyond your TDEE - WITHOUT getting fat. I don't honestly know what human limits are as far as ATP transcription to synthesis of complex chains, but this is definitely not anywhere near the norm.

What method did you use to calculate body fat?

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

Only way you'd see a true 25lbs of lean mass in 16 weeks is if you have amazing genetics or can benefit from "noob gains", where you'd be underweight. You probably will see the scale move that much, but it won't stay as some will be fat and glycogen if everything else is perfect.

Ten pounds of LBM is a very realistic goal for retainable mass once the extra glycogen depletes and any excess fat is burned off. Pretty much what tbone said, lol.

I dont agree you can put on 40 pounds in 16 weeks and keep 30 if your body is ready for it but you need to know how to eat to grow. It means 2 grams of protein per pounf of your target weight per day. 70 gram protein shakes with every meal. First thing and last thing and waking up in the middle of the night to eat another meal. Pumping fiber aminos acids digestive enzimes and sleeping 8 hours a day. With an Ai. Im a fan of letro. You must have a real diet plan. Run hcg and igf1lr3 the whole way threw and a full pct.

 

[Onk]

I dont agree you can put on 40 pounds in 16 weeks and keep 30 if your body is ready for it but you need to know how to eat to grow. It means 2 grams of protein per pounf of your target weight per day. 70 gram protein shakes with every meal. First thing and last thing and waking up in the middle of the night to eat another meal. Pumping fiber aminos acids digestive enzimes and sleeping 8 hours a day. With an Ai. Im a fan of letro. You must have a real diet plan. Run hcg and igf1lr3 the whole way threw and a full pct.

now that's something I hadn't considered. I eat 7 meals around 2 hours apart...but I could eat an 8th if I woke up 2 hours into sleep! That's truly genius and blew my mind.
On tren that'd be even easier, I often wake up 3x during the night, often aided by the litres upon litres of water I'm drinking.

Do you keep the carbs low in these intra-sleep meals?

 

[bigben66]

I have, and always have letro on hand for AI

You're gonna need that AI with the Deca bud... don't 'have it on hand' - USE IT!

I would also use HCG throughout the cycle from week 1 until 3 days before PCT...

Oh, and don't forget to stop the Deca a week before the Test, it has a longer clearout time.

 

[SJC]

I gained 40lbs my first cycle, retained everything but 8-10lbs months after the cycle was finished and went from 189lbs to 231lbs but in 6 weeks.

PICS or STFU

Even though that doesn't mean you didn't gain 40lbs in 6 months between pics. I doubt also you gained pure muscle in 6 weeks

 

[3J]

Only way you'd see a true 25lbs of lean mass in 16 weeks is if you have amazing genetics or can benefit from "noob gains", where you'd be underweight. You probably will see the scale move that much, but it won't stay as some will be fat and glycogen if everything else is perfect.

Ten pounds of LBM is a very realistic goal for retainable mass once the extra glycogen depletes and any excess fat is burned off. Pretty much what tbone said, lol.

i gotta say half, i also have to disagree with you..

though i do agree that genetics play a variable x, if you cannot gain 25lbs and keep it in 16 weeks on a cycle like that either A) your genetics suck and you should kill yourself so you dont spread them or B) youre doing something wrong with your nutrition and training

 

[ImAuNatural]

i gotta say half, i also have to disagree with you..

though i do agree that genetics play a variable x, if you cannot gain 25lbs and keep it in 16 weeks on a cycle like that either A) your genetics suck and you should kill yourself so you dont spread them or B) youre doing something wrong with your nutrition and training

lol @ kill yourself

 

[halfwit]

i gotta say half, i also have to disagree with you..

though i do agree that genetics play a variable x, if you cannot gain 25lbs and keep it in 16 weeks on a cycle like that either A) your genetics suck and you should kill yourself so you dont spread them or B) youre doing something wrong with your nutrition and training

So you guys are telling me that I can hit 345lbs in 16 weeks, go maintenance, keep all that, then hit 370lbs - et cetera every 4 months?

Even on GRAMS of gear and knowing my calories/macros to the gram, I can't see this being possible once you move past that initial "easy gains" territory. Hell, I can make the scale move no problem, but saying that it's all LBM every bulk just can't be possible. Unless, as I mentioned - it's "noob gains".

If it were that easy, we'd have way more "freaks" running around. That, or I guess my genetics really suck as I know I can't grow like that. Which might be a good thing, as I would outgrow another gym.

 

[bigben66]

if you cannot gain 25lbs and keep it in 16 weeks on a cycle like that either A) your genetics suck and you should kill yourself so you dont spread them or B) youre doing something wrong with your nutrition and training

Seriously? 25lbs of lean muscle mass gained on every cycle...?
No fat gain whatsoever? Just lean muscle mass that is going to be KEPT?

I call BS here guys, I'm sorry, I'm with HW on this one.

 

[SJC]

We are way off track here, homeboy said he gained 40lbs in 6 WEEKS

 

[505jules]

We are way off track here, homeboy said he gained 40lbs in 6 WEEKS

He's probably at 3% body fat.

 

[anzel]

now that's something I hadn't considered. I eat 7 meals around 2 hours apart...but I could eat an 8th if I woke up 2 hours into sleep! That's truly genius and blew my mind.
On tren that'd be even easier, I often wake up 3x during the night, often aided by the litres upon litres of water I'm drinking.

Do you keep the carbs low in these intra-sleep meals?

I wanna eat and go right back to bed, sleep is precious,I would use some kinda shake/smoothie that is zero sugar high protein that I can slam down. Maybe with some oats in it for fiber and good carbs say around 30g. But only use the oats if you missed your mark during the day. Or just drink a carton of egg whites and a slice of apple.

 

[bigben66]

It would make sense to nail a casein/whey mix if you're going to do it.... keep it by the bed, plonk a couple of ice cubes in it to keep it cool(ish)

Then when you're in you're slumber, reach over, chug it, fart a few times and roll back over to sleep again

Definitely no need for carbs... carbs = fuel, you don't need fuel to sleep!
(Unless you're an ectomorph who finds it ridiculously hard to add mass no matter how many calories they take on)