Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) Australia - With BW

[RedLang]

TRT Australia - With BW

Hi guys

I am in a desperate situation. Im from Australia and i believe i have low T. I am 25 years old, I have had low energy, no sex drive, low motivation, and although i go to gym 3-4 times a week i have seen not much gain no matter what i do. I dont drink, dont smoke, dont do drugs, eat really well (No sugary drinks, lots of water, fresh fruits and veggies) and still have problems with the above.

I have gone to see my Dr and only had Testosterone serum done twice over a 8 month period. He had decided that this was borderline low, but that it may just be my normal range.

Results are
6/4/11
Total Test 14.7nmol/l (11.0-40.0)
TSH 0.9mU/l (0.3-3.5)
Haemoglobin 167g/L (135-175)
Haematocit 0.5 (0.4-0.54)

1/5/12
Total Test 12nmol/l (11.0-40.0)
TSH 0.9mU/l (0.3-3.5)
(Unfortunately this is all my Dr ordered)

So 8/5/12 i went back for the results above and he said lets try 1 shot of Test (sust 250) and see how you go. I thought ok cool lets see. So day 2/3 libido picked up and actually had sex with my partner 5-6 times in 4 days. I decided to get more thorough bloodwork done and went and had a full panel done through another Dr.

Results (8 days after Sust 250)
16/5/12
IgF-1 - 33nmmol/l (15-43)
Total Test 18nmol/L (11.40.0)
SHBG 21nmol/L (10.0-70.0(
Calculated FTe 464 pmol/L (260-740)
Free T4 15.1 pmol/L (9.0-19.0)
Free T3 5.5 pmol/L (2.6-6.0)
TSH 1.0 Mu/L (0.3-3.5)
Total PSA 2.6ug/L (0.2-2.0)
FSH <2 U/L (<10)
LH <1 (<9)
Oestradial (E2?) 155pmol/L (55-165)
Haemoglobin 161 g/L (135-175)
Haematocrit 0.48 (0.40-0.54)
Prolactin 250 mIU/L (<500)
DHEAS 9.6umol/L (4.3-12.2)
Iron 20 umol/L (5-30)
Saturation 33% (20-55)

Chemistry
Fast Glucose - 5.5mmol/L (3.6-6)
Albumin 45 g/L (39-50)
AST 16 U/L (10-40)
Cholesterol 4.9 mmol/L (3.9-5.5)
Iron 20 umol (5-30)

Cortisol 637 nmol/L (160-650)

S-Insulin 7 mU/L (5-20)

Now after day 9-12 i started feeling see-sawy... its hard to explain but i was moody and felt good but then not. Im sure you guys know what this feeling is. Then after day 14 its been low.. low energy, irratible, bad mood etc. I went again to the dr today and said the symptoms half cleared but then arose again around day 11. He said ok I can get you another shot and i will give you another one around day 14 after that one. He doesnt seem to understand what im going through. When i had told him about the levels again he said that im in the perfectly normal range and thats quite possible that its where my body inividually sits. I told him about the symptoms and he said i seem like someone to focus on these and it can make it worse. He also had told me that life isnt easy and sometimes we have to "roll with the punches".

This is affecting my work and my relationship with my partner. I feel like i am letter her down, even though it is outside my control.

One Dr i went to (when i got the full panel) also said that because i fall into normal there is nothing he can do. Even though he recognises that i am 25 years old and at teh very bottom of the scale its still outside his control. I find our system very tight around prescription of testosterone.

Can any of the guys from Australia chime in here? Am i overreacting and my levels are normal? Im trying to find a Dr who can actually help and not give me this short term solution. Would love some help here.

Thanks.

 

[BigFella]

Hi Red. You poor bastard. You are getting fucked around by an idiot.

I'm in Oz too. Much older than you, but here for the same reason.

OK: Your T is WAY too low for a fit 25 year old. You want to put it into perspective? It's about average for an ordinary - i.e. not fit or unfit - 75 year old.

Your doctor is a total fool. First, he's operating outside the guidelines. Second, he has no idea what he is doing.

When you had the shot of Sust your T levels went up. So you felt better. Now they are down. So you feel like shit. They are probably below the 12.0 level, because the first thing that would have happened is that your body would have shut off its natural T production. (Betcha he didn't tell you that, hey! Because he doesn't know.)

On Sust over a three week period your T levels will peak about five times the level of the trough. The normal diurnal variation of a young male (that's you) is about 30-40%.

You need to do A LOT of research and reading, because you won't find easily a doctor to help, in my experience. I'm in the east, my doctor is in Perth. That's how rare they are.

Stay with us here - you will get stacks of help, from me and from many others.

You can find out exactly how to get your T levels low - utterly legally, safely, with no drugs - and you'll qualify for treatment. How? Treat yourself like shit, stay up late for two nights, drink heavily, on the third night do the same but don't go to bed at all - then go get your T tested.

But please, before you do anything, research like crazy.

And if your doctor wants to give you another shot of Sust tell him you want it in three separate injections over three weeks. If he asks why, just smash a chair over his head and say you've got roid rage.

Ask more questions. This is a family - if you act like a human you'll be treated like one.

(Gotta run now, but I'll get back to this later. If you want to read my other posts there's some stuff in there to help.)

 

[BigFella]

Mate: just saw your estrogen levels. They are way high. This could be the reason your T was down in the first place, but because your idiot doctor didn't get complete blood work done there's no way to tell. I reckon you're going to have to get off everything for three more weeks or so, get bloodwork done then, totally clean. You might find that your E is still high, so you MAY be able to raise your T just by taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I doubt it though, as you really want to be sitting at the top of the range.

Anyway, your T will probably come back in range, so you doctor won't be allowed to prescribe. So then your job is to get two readings below 8.0 and you're sweet. I was near where you are, and got my two readings of 5.1 and 1.6 (or something like that). I overdid it on the second try because so much was at stake!

And now, because I know more about this than any doc I have ever met, I am in control. That's where you want to end up.

 

[RedLang]

Thanks BigFella. Its great to here im not alone in trying to covince my dr that there is something wrong. My partner and I have gone through a lot trying to sort this out. The "roll with the punches" comment really didnt sit well with me. Kind of arrogant i say.

Your post has revived some fire inside me. The way i have been treated by drs here has nearly made me lose all faith in our medical community.

I had taken another shot of sus 250 today. (unfortunately)
The high e2 might be caused by the sus250? Extra test causing aromatisation? If i wait 3-4 weeks then have another blood test wouldnt my T be low due to total shutdown of Lh and Fsh? Do you think that the alcohol and sleep deprivation will work for my levels also? And i still have to get 2 tests to be under 8 mmol thats going to be quite difficult.

Thanks again for your quick reply.

 

[BigFella]

Not "unfortunately" on today's Sust. Just something to factor in - it delays Plan A for three more weeks. (There was no Plan A before this - the doctors sure didn't have one.)

Feel free to lose faith in our medical community. They don't deserve any of our faith, or trust. But if you look at it their way, they probably didn't know that being a doctor was going to be such a shit job, and they busted their balls for ten years to get to where they are now. Still, we deserve better than we get.

So you've got a couple of days before the syst really kicks in, then you and your girlfriend can enjoy it for five days or so! In that time spend every spare moment reading and learning. It's quite clear you have the brains for it by the way you use words.

If you choose Plan A - to get clean and get blood work done, which is what I'd recommend - then you're going to have to be uninjected for maybe five weeks before the Sust is near enough to being completely out of your system.

Check out what Sust is made of, the half lives of its components, and the decay rate. Sust was invented so patients could go to the dr every two or three weeks. No-one thought of letting the patients do it. FYI I inject every three days 0.5ml of T Enanthate (Primotestin) through a 25g needle. I am a complete beginner at this, and it is totally painless.

Yes, you are dead right. The high E is probably because of the Sust. But we don't know because your doc didn't get a standard hormone assay done. Duh. If your E is normally very high, though, then your low T may be able to be fixed merely with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Though testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is easy, you don't want to do it unless you really have to. If you can live happily with considerably improved T just from an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) then that would be perfect.

Re driving your T levels down by partying: yes, I'm sure it can be done with the starting levels you are at.

An idea: can you get your doc to write a scrip for Androforte? It's a Perth made T cream, and it has the benefit of having a very low half life, not being esterified. (?) so you could use it to come "down" off Sust without the horrible rebound. And you can also use it to really drive your T levels down. Use it for a week, then stop for three days and party like hell. If you can get it for Gods sake get the 5% not the 2% - which does nearly nothing.

 

[RedLang]

Alright so now iv got a plan. Thanks BigFella. Not sure about that brand but im sure he mentioned it to me before. I will def get that when i got back in 2 weeks.

Another thing, lets assume that my current silly dr does a T test for just serum test, then i score below 8, will i then ask my dr to do a follow up test say 1 week later and do it again? I know for a fact that this dr, if i dont say anything, will only do blood for a total test.

Lets assume we fail the blood twice ( which we are aiming for) can i then take those blood tests to any testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dr and ask for treatment? Or will the dr be suspicious and order his own tests? I am very interested how the drs would handle this?

Thanks again mate

 

[RedLang]

I will also need to find a Dr that prescribes HcG so i can keep my boys alive. In the future i do want to have kids. Having a small dose Of 250IU/weekly of HcG will keep me going enough to be restarted at a later date?

 

[BigFella]

Hi Red - I can certainly see you've got the learning hat on!

My Perth doc has prescribed Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) (Pregnyl) but my pharmacist says it's out of stock in Oz, so a scrip wouldn't do you much good anyway. I think your ideal dose might be higher than 250iu though. As you want to have kids (Yes!!! Best things evuh! I've got five, would like more . . .) then you ought to get a sperm count done now too - their numbers and their friskiness. Then you'll have a baseline of everything - hormones, fertility, the lot.

My doc is also fine with me finding my optimum T levels by varying the Primo dosing as I see fit, and with prescribing HGH in a couple of months. He'd do it now but recommended I give it two months to get the T dialed in, and I said that sounded like a good idea. This is what the relationship with your doc should be - working together.

It's unlikely that your doc knows anything about AndroForte. They know next to nothing about anything, and it's produced by Lawley Phamaceuticals in Perth, and our delightful Aussie system says that you have to get it dispensed by a pharmacy in WA. Luckily Lawley Direct does the job. (Say hi to Trish for me.)

When I go to see my doc I email him prior to the visit - a highly detailed essay so that it is utterly obvious I know what I'm doing. I recommend it as a pracrice. If you go in to see your doc with this background then the doc will know that you know more than he does about all this and you won't cop any bullshit.

In your next blood draw you'll get your total T, SHBG, free T, Estrongen (make sure they do the sensitive (male) test on it!) FSH, LH and all the other usual suspects. The free T is probably just a calculated figure - total T versus SHBG. Your PSA looked dodgy too - have that done again.

Ideally you want a clean baseline - you really should know where you start. If you leave it go till six or so weeks after your last Sust shot it will be pretty clean. And if your T hasn't recovered by then that's fine as you'll get a low reading. If it has - i.e. it's over the 8.0 cut-off (which it probably will be) just insist on another assay in three weeks. Claim you don't feel great, and that you reckon your T levels are still skewed by the results of the two Sust shots. That will enable you to get your first manipulated reading, and done right you'll be able to get it below 8.0. Then you'll be able to say you want another one in three weeks, you beat yourself up again and that's your second reading. Then for the rest of your life you qualify for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). And you have the choice of trying to get off T and just go with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), or staying on T, or getting your T to the top of the range and finding out how it feels there (pretty good, if that's where I was most of my life). In any case you will be able to be in control. It's worth the pain and suffereing of getting the two low readings, believe me!

Another reason to get hold of some AndroForte 5% is, because it is a short-acting T if you dose yourself heavily for a week and your nuts stop producing naturally and then you stop using it your T levels will drop below 8.0 three days later. (If you know someone overseas (not in USA) then Lawley will ship to them without a scrip, they can send it to you.)

Good luck.

Ideally you want to get into the high range - aroud 30 is good - without injections. But I doubt you'll do it.

By the way: With your high PSA readings did your doc check your prostate? If he didn't there's another reason why he should get fired.

 

[RedLang]

Hi Red - I can certainly see you've got the learning hat on!
My Perth doc has prescribed Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) (Pregnyl) but my pharmacist says it's out of stock in Oz, so a scrip wouldn't do you much good anyway. I think your ideal dose might be higher than 250iu though. As you want to have kids (Yes!!! Best things evuh! I've got five, would like more . . .) then you ought to get a sperm count done now too - their numbers and their friskiness. Then you'll have a baseline of everything - hormones, fertility, the lot.

Im guessing that this may of already happened. Im thinking i will deal with this at the end of it. THe other full blood test i had was already skewed due to me taking the T shot anyway.
I got hte 250IU info from reading on Dr Crislers protocols on minimal effective doses. I am very positive i will also need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to bring down my E2. It is even high at the moment but i currently am not suffering any excessive notable sides.

My doc is also fine with me finding my optimum T levels by varying the Primo dosing as I see fit, and with prescribing HGH in a couple of months. He'd do it now but recommended I give it two months to get the T dialed in, and I said that sounded like a good idea. This is what the relationship with your doc should be - working together.

I have already come to the conclusion that this doctor knows minimal about the risks and benefits of this type of treatment and do not want him controlling any part of my treatment. I think at this point i should use this to my advantage to get 2 low levels so i at least qualify for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).

It's unlikely that your doc knows anything about AndroForte. They know next to nothing about anything, and it's produced by Lawley Phamaceuticals in Perth, and our delightful Aussie system says that you have to get it dispensed by a pharmacy in WA. Luckily Lawley Direct does the job. (Say hi to Trish for me.)

He was aware of other forms of T. He did say there was a form of cream but did not elaborate on the brand or concentration.

When I go to see my doc I email him prior to the visit - a highly detailed essay so that it is utterly obvious I know what I'm doing. I recommend it as a pracrice. If you go in to see your doc with this background then the doc will know that you know more than he does about all this and you won't cop any bullshit.

This is a luxury i doubt i will be able to gain with my current Dr. His arrogance towards me and my symptoms is unrelenting.

In your next blood draw you'll get your total T, SHBG, free T, Estrongen (make sure they do the sensitive (male) test on it!) FSH, LH and all the other usual suspects. The free T is probably just a calculated figure - total T versus SHBG. Your PSA looked dodgy too - have that done again.

The only reason i had originally got these done in the first place was because i requested them and went to a "Wellbeing" doctor. Even he, after seeing my results, said there was nothing else he could do for me and said i was normal and to returned to my GP.
Even if i request these bloods he still may not even get them done.

Ideally you want a clean baseline - you really should know where you start. If you leave it go till six or so weeks after your last Sust shot it will be pretty clean. And if your T hasn't recovered by then that's fine as you'll get a low reading. If it has - i.e. it's over the 8.0 cut-off (which it probably will be) just insist on another assay in three weeks. Claim you don't feel great, and that you reckon your T levels are still skewed by the results of the two Sust shots. That will enable you to get your first manipulated reading, and done right you'll be able to get it below 8.0. Then you'll be able to say you want another one in three weeks, you beat yourself up again and that's your second reading. Then for the rest of your life you qualify for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). And you have the choice of trying to get off T and just go with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), or staying on T, or getting your T to the top of the range and finding out how it feels there (pretty good, if that's where I was most of my life). In any case you will be able to be in control. It's worth the pain and suffereing of getting the two low readings, believe me!

Dragging it out that long is going to be horrible. Its already wasted too much of my life. The detrimental health effects from having low T is overwhelming. Many studies show health effects even up to 15 nmol/L. I am quite surprised that this more well known among doctors considering the negative effects.
I am thankful that i have found a reason for the way i feel. Now my objective is to sort this out.

Another reason to get hold of some AndroForte 5% is, because it is a short-acting T if you dose yourself heavily for a week and your nuts stop producing naturally and then you stop using it your T levels will drop below 8.0 three days later. (If you know someone overseas (not in USA) then Lawley will ship to them without a scrip, they can send it to you.)

This is definitely not going to happen. Thanks for the idea though.

Ideally you want to get into the high range - around 30 is good - without injections. But I doubt you'll do it.

As a 25 year old man, i think im missing out by notbeing in this category. To claim that im normal is ridiculous. You know whats worse? They nearly convinced me that this is the way my life would be.

By the way: With your high PSA readings did your doc check your prostate? If he didn't there's another reason why he should get fired.

Elevated PSA readings are common among sust 250 users. I will however, investigate this further.

Thanks.

 

[landaishan]

hey hows it going?

im a 30 year old from perth and just got a referral from my gp for a "free testosterone" blood test

i saw you mention that you knew of a good doctor in perth? i am interested in learning more about hrt/trt and would love to know of a good doctor in perth, western australia

thanks a lot

i cant seem to be able to send private messages either, is that something to do with being a new user?

Hi Red. You poor bastard. You are getting fucked around by an idiot.

I'm in Oz too. Much older than you, but here for the same reason.

OK: Your T is WAY too low for a fit 25 year old. You want to put it into perspective? It's about average for an ordinary - i.e. not fit or unfit - 75 year old.

Your doctor is a total fool. First, he's operating outside the guidelines. Second, he has no idea what he is doing.

When you had the shot of Sustanon (sust) your T levels went up. So you felt better. Now they are down. So you feel like shit. They are probably below the 12.0 level, because the first thing that would have happened is that your body would have shut off its natural T production. (Betcha he didn't tell you that, hey! Because he doesn't know.)

On Sustanon (sust) over a three week period your T levels will peak about five times the level of the trough. The normal diurnal variation of a young male (that's you) is about 30-40%.

You need to do A LOT of research and reading, because you won't find easily a doctor to help, in my experience. I'm in the east, my doctor is in Perth. That's how rare they are.

Stay with us here - you will get stacks of help, from me and from many others.

You can find out exactly how to get your T levels low - utterly legally, safely, with no drugs - and you'll qualify for treatment. How? Treat yourself like shit, stay up late for two nights, drink heavily, on the third night do the same but don't go to bed at all - then go get your T tested.

But please, before you do anything, research like crazy.

And if your doctor wants to give you another shot of Sustanon (sust) tell him you want it in three separate injections over three weeks. If he asks why, just smash a chair over his head and say you've got roid rage.

Ask more questions. This is a family - if you act like a human you'll be treated like one.

(Gotta run now, but I'll get back to this later. If you want to read my other posts there's some stuff in there to help.)

 

[RedLang]

Pm sent mate

 

[landaishan]

Pm sent mate

still wont let me send a reply in pm. thanks so much for the advice

 

[landaishan]

thanks to a helpful forum member, i visited a knowledgeable doctor and now have a blood test for about 15 different things, instead of the one for just "free testosterone" that my regular gp gave me

 

[landaishan]

after reviewing my blood test results the dr prescribed me only with "andromen forte cream" androforte 5%

i asked him about anti-estrogen and testicle shrinkage, fertility etc and he was unconcerned. he said i can come off the cream anytime i want and return to normal, even if it shuts down my natural t production while im on it. he said get on the cream then get more blood tests done in a month and we will take it from there

im not sure if i should go ahead and use it or not at this stage, or if i would be better off using injectables.

been reading around the forum a lot and i see that everyone prefers injectables for a variety of reasons. i think the doctor told me my levels werent low enough for Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) or TRT. he mentioned something. im a fairly healthy 30yo with mid-avg t levels. is there anything to do with australian law that enables him to give me cream and not injectables or could he have given me injectables?

either way i figure i can just ask for injectables after trying the cream for a while and getting more blood work done later

sorry for highjacking this thread

 

[RedLang]

Start a new thread bud, will answer in that

 

[SamSong]

after reviewing my blood test results the dr prescribed me only with "andromen forte cream" androforte 5%

i asked him about anti-estrogen and testicle shrinkage, fertility etc and he was unconcerned. he said i can come off the cream anytime i want and return to normal, even if it shuts down my natural t production while im on it. he said get on the cream then get more blood tests done in a month and we will take it from there

im not sure if i should go ahead and use it or not at this stage, or if i would be better off using injectables.

been reading around the forum a lot and i see that everyone prefers injectables for a variety of reasons. i think the doctor told me my levels werent low enough for Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) or TRT. he mentioned something. im a fairly healthy 30yo with mid-avg t levels. is there anything to do with australian law that enables him to give me cream and not injectables or could he have given me injectables?

either way i figure i can just ask for injectables after trying the cream for a while and getting more blood work done later

sorry for highjacking this thread

I'll jump on your new thread.

 

[t.w.a]

hey guys, first post. got some results back and test levels were very low so now i had second blood test taken to assess why. Unfortunatly i have feeling that even with these poor results my GP is not going to be able to help me much. I've started printing some info off of the net and reading up articles on this stuff so that i can at least have some idea of whats going on. However if one of you boys could PM me a good doctor or Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) specialist or whomever here in PERTH that would be greatly appreciated. apparently i can't pm anyone because of low post count

 

[MrHell]

Hi there RedLang,

I read your post on the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) australia with BW. It was a good wright up helped me a lot. I believe that i am in a simular position as what you were in when you did that post. I wanted to ask did you manage to get on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) if so how are you finding it? Im also in aus and form reading another post that you commented in i believe that we live in the same state. I have put a post in the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) part of this site but at this point havent got a reply yet to my questions. I was hoping that as you have gone through the hoops with the docs in aus you could give me some guidance as to how to get testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). From what i have read from this site i believe that testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) will hopefully sort my problems out.

I tried to PM u but couldn't not sure why?

 

[Mike511]

Hi Redlang/landaishan,

Could you guys share the doctor that you guys used here in Perth for TRT as well please? Had a blood test done abroad but they never gave me the results, only saying that my T was low. Will need to get my treatment started here so your help will be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance guys!

 

[Mike511]

Hi Redlang/landaishan,

Could you guys share the doctor that you guys used here in Perth for TRT as well please? Had a blood test done abroad but they never gave me the results, only saying that my T was low. Will need to get my treatment started here so your help will be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance guys!