That dreaded set of questions

[Ahimoth]

So here I am.

Basic info

I am 22, I have been training for 2 years. I was weak and skinny, am now not too bad at 160lbs and 5'7". There is a lot of work to do. A lot before I even consider actually taking steroids. I train on HIT principles and eat very well. The science behind the training I am beginning to grasp, this is in the last three months. Before that I trained badly and ate poorly, I am now on the right road. I will remain training and eating well for at least 3 years, and probably 5 before I consider steroids.

However, just from looking at this board I see the issue is very complicated and difficult to grasp and I would like to be in the know before I do anything stupid one day. My main questions arise from this fact, I have cystic fibrosis. I am very well, as you would expect from the training and the fact that my BMI (a lean BMI) is considerably better than 99% of other CF patients. I do however have issues with the health implications. I need my liver!

I have no moral objections to steroids, and no fear of needles. I plan to leave steroids for a good while as I said. In the long run however I don't know how realistic my goals are without them. 180lbs would be nice, but when a mild chest infection can eat 1000 calories a day and I am naturally skinny I don't know. Possibly I am just frustrated at the moment.

What would your advice be for steroids that won't mess me about too much? I would think my case is slightly different from most due to the CF and not wanting to be massive. No disrespect to those who are/want to be, it is just not my scene, think 180lbs and reasonably lean (I need at least 10% bf) will be big enough at 5'7"!

As a side note, between the ages of 16 and 19 I was on varying doses of prednisolone, the endocrine suppression that took place was so extensive that I needed a year to 'cycle' off it. That a worry with other steroids, or was it probably due to the excessively long period of time I was on the pred?

Long post. Sorry and thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Zen42]

I did some cursory research when I read your email. I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.

I could find very little information on steroids and their effects on CF patients. I didn't find anything that would indicate steroids would help or hurt with sodium or cloride transport. I also didn't find anything that indicated significant risks to the pancreas. There does seem to be a tendency for increased estradiol in CF patients which may be part of the reason for lower bone densities.

I would say the biggest challenge will be nutrition. You need to be able to absorb adequate nutrition in order to grow. As you know, the CF affects this.

In my opinion (did I mention I'm NOT a doctor?) lower doses of steroids might be ok and possibly helpful. You'll need to eat, eat and eat some more to get the additional nutrition you'll need. Maintenance could be a problem so be careful to not fall into the trap of being "on-cycle" all the time to maintain a magic number on the scale. That'll do you more harm than good.

Test, in mild doses, should be ok. I suspect fina would be a good choice because one of it's mechanisms is gains through lowering cortisol levels. I don't know if lower cortisol levels could affect (either way) breathing or clearing of the lungs in your case. GH might be helpful. Using insulin would be incredibly stupid. I would definitely avoid any steroid whose side effects include significant water gains.

High doses of steroids would be a big mistake, you can't get enough nutrition to take advantage of larger doses and there could be a negative effect in managing the CF.

Did I mention I'm NOT a doctor???

Congrats on your hard work!

 

[buffdoc]

That's a tough one. I think your plan to keep eating and training hard, with a scientific approach, is a good one
If you do get to the point of using AAS, low dose test might be a good way to go.
Remember that Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) and corticosteroids are 2 different animals. You suppress the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis with prednisone; w/ AAS, it's the H-P-testicular axis. The principles of suppression are the same, but for you, adrenal insufficiency is not good. Temporary testicular suppression is not going to have the same health implications for you.
BTW, have you brought this up w/ you pulmonologist or internist, or whoever your primary CF doc is? Couldn't hurt. All he can do is yell at you, and he might even have some useful info. He's YOUR employee.

 

[Ahimoth]

Thanks, will have a look at fina and read up more about test. I had read about primobolan elsewhere, apparently the potential for liver damage is lower. I hoping that when (and if) I ever come to use steroids I will only be looking to gain 10-20lbs. What is the deal with loss of gains on primo, fina and test?

Thanks again.

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

So here I am.

Basic info

I am 22, I have been training for 2 years. I was weak and skinny, am now not too bad at 160lbs and 5'7". There is a lot of work to do. A lot before I even consider actually taking steroids. I train on HIT principles and eat very well. The science behind the training I am beginning to grasp, this is in the last three months. Before that I trained badly and ate poorly, I am now on the right road. I will remain training and eating well for at least 3 years, and probably 5 before I consider steroids.

However, just from looking at this board I see the issue is very complicated and difficult to grasp and I would like to be in the know before I do anything stupid one day. My main questions arise from this fact, I have cystic fibrosis. I am very well, as you would expect from the training and the fact that my BMI (a lean BMI) is considerably better than 99% of other CF patients. I do however have issues with the health implications. I need my liver!

I have no moral objections to steroids, and no fear of needles. I plan to leave steroids for a good while as I said. In the long run however I don't know how realistic my goals are without them. 180lbs would be nice, but when a mild chest infection can eat 1000 calories a day and I am naturally skinny I don't know. Possibly I am just frustrated at the moment.

What would your advice be for steroids that won't mess me about too much? I would think my case is slightly different from most due to the CF and not wanting to be massive. No disrespect to those who are/want to be, it is just not my scene, think 180lbs and reasonably lean (I need at least 10% bf) will be big enough at 5'7"!

As a side note, between the ages of 16 and 19 I was on varying doses of prednisolone, the endocrine suppression that took place was so extensive that I needed a year to 'cycle' off it. That a worry with other steroids, or was it probably due to the excessively long period of time I was on the pred?

Long post. Sorry and thanks in advance for any help.

i think your original plan to eat, train, and grow is a great one. also, you simply sayinf that you want to hang around here and learn before you even come close to start juicing says a whole lot about you and your intellligence. i am very happy you have decided to come to steroidology.com. you may not know much about juice, as you say. but simply having you here with your mentality makes this board even better.

as for a cycle. i would maybe suggest 400mg EQ weeks 1-10 and maybe 250mg test weeks 1-10 .

 

[wayner]

Welcome to the board, Ahimoth!

This is a very touchy subject because none of us wants to see anyone harmed by steroid use.

However, I suggest for you a practical medical approach by either accessing an Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) clinic like the one ran by Swale on this board or a local Endochronologist in your area.

Be honest with these guys and pick their brains. Are you are already getting regular blood work done?

Adding a Test or Oxandrin at a low dose WILL produce nice gains fairly safely IF consulted with a MD BEFORE use.

Bump for more info on CF and AAS

 

[StoneColdNTO]

Welcome to Steroidology bro !!

......but I'll leave that question to the doctors on the board.

 

[thunderson411]

welcome ahimoth,??? anyway, welcome bro, at 5'7 u should be a behemoth in no time listening to these fellows.. i shit u not.... anyway welcome.!!

 

[Golden_Muscle]

Her are steroids you should be looking at if you want something more on the safe side for your liver etc...........


test
deca
primo
anavar
nandrolone phenylpropionate ( short form it is called durabolin, not deca durabolin) this one could be the best for you, but im not 100% sure.


Click on the link in my signature with steroid profiles in it and look up durabolin. Its fast acting and you keep all gains with it. Remember, its not deca durabolin!!!

 

[Ahimoth]

There are doctors on the board? Cool.

As for info about CF and Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) there is some, occasionally it gets used medicinally to help boost growth but I think the practice has died out. There used to be a day when CF patients were sick constantly and long-term effects of drugs were not worried about as survival was not often much past the teens.

There is no reason why I shouldn't be around in 20 or 30 years time, and hopefully much muscle will aid that. Scary story for you, when I was 17 I got pneumonia (due to a problem that is now very sorted) I lost 28lbs in a week and that in itself became critical. Those days are in my past and I wish to put them firmly there, with a big muscular punch.

I do get a fair amount of bloodwork done, to be honest I think mentioning steroids to my specialists would probably get me committed, but my GP would probably be a lot more honest.

Some more questions then. Fina was mentioned, seems quite harsh, what are people's experiences with it?

Minocycline hydrochloride - can anyone settle this - is it anti-anabolic or not? I use it for standard acne already and seems to keep my chest in order but I can do without.

 

[Zen42]

I'm glad to see you're taking a very methodical approach to this. I hope you don't take anything I say, or anybody else on these boards, as gospel. Use good judgement.

I mentioned Fina, which is NOT liver harsh, because at least part of the gains are due to the lowering of cortisol levels which lowers (normal) catabolism. Cortisol serves useful functions in the body...I don't know if lower cortisol levels could have any effect (positive or negative) with your lungs.

Because we're talking mild cycles and I get the impression your lifestyle is not 'liver-abusive', I'm not as concerned about your liver. I believe your first consideration should be your lungs and anything else affected by the CF. I would not choose a 'liver-friendly' steroid if it caused significant water gains.

I hope you can find a doctor to discuss this with, the CF must be respected. Should you end up trying a coarse of steroids, in your case I would recommend starting with a single steroid, one with a shorter half-life so you can back off quickly if there is a problem. I would also suggest shorter cycles, never going over 6 weeks. Listen to your body and be prepared to make changes.

I mentioned loss of gains because your body will have a harder time retaining muscle than the typical person, even if your test levels are near normal. Good nutrition and your solid workout plan will help mitigate this.

If the minocycline helps your chest, stay on it!!! It's a relatively safe medication and it appears to have neuroprotective capabilities. But mostly, its important to keep your lungs as healthy as possible. All else is secondary.

I hope you find a doctor to talk to on this. Good luck!