the difference between "complete" plant proteins and animal proteins? Anyyone?

[goingtowin]

the difference between "complete" plant proteins and animal proteins? Anyyone?

I'm average when it comes to nutritional knowledge and I understand what a complete protein is however the plant kingdom DOES have some complete proteins.


what exactly is it that makes vegetarian (NOT VEGAN) bodybuilding so frowned upon? For example quinoa is a complete protein that is not from animal products. What makes this less beneficial to tuna or chicken??

Tofu another complete protein.. Why is this worse than steak when it comes to building muscle? I understand massive vegetarian bodybuilders out there but they are also on the juice.


Or say a vegetarian got 80% of his protein intake from egg whites.


If you have not gotten the hint I was a vegetarian for the longest time and only started eating meat to put on some muscle. I REALLY want to go back to being vegetarian but not if it completely cripples me..

Why would a diet of mostly egg whites and some dairy (replace some rice meals with quinoa) be so crippling to bodybuilding? Can someone explain this please?

 

[Gainjin260]

Who frowns upon vegetarian bodybuilding?

Juiced-porkchop is a mod, last time I checked he was vegetarian. It can be done, it just takes more work and *usually* means consuming more overall carbs.

Meat and fish is easy because there are NO carbs. The quinoa and tofu you referenced have significant amounts of carbs. Because of the extremes pro bodybuilders go to they cannot afford (pre contest) to get their protein from sources that come with extra calories and extra carbs. You probably can.

Egg whites are an excellent, bioavailabile source of protein. however, I'd have to eat approx 60 egg whites a day to hit 80% of my protein goal. No thank you.

Going vegetarian won't cripple you or your gains. Go ahead and do it. Just make sure you hit your macros.

 

[Milton]

I'm average when it comes to nutritional knowledge and I understand what a complete protein is however the plant kingdom DOES have some complete proteins.


what exactly is it that makes vegetarian (NOT VEGAN) bodybuilding so frowned upon? For example quinoa is a complete protein that is not from animal products. What makes this less beneficial to tuna or chicken??

Tofu another complete protein.. Why is this worse than steak when it comes to building muscle? I understand massive vegetarian bodybuilders out there but they are also on the juice.


Or say a vegetarian got 80% of his protein intake from egg whites.


If you have not gotten the hint I was a vegetarian for the longest time and only started eating meat to put on some muscle. I REALLY want to go back to being vegetarian but not if it completely cripples me..

Why would a diet of mostly egg whites and some dairy (replace some rice meals with quinoa) be so crippling to bodybuilding? Can someone explain this please?

Having been a Chef in my former life I learned to hate vegetarians, lol, this all boils down to bloodwork. And bloodwork levels will reveal that the body needs animal protein not plant protein. and the statement in OPs thread should be more clarified as there are 20 different types of vegetarians these days. oh and its juced_porkchop.
Following

 

[goingtowin]

I eat eggs and dairy just a regular vegetarian not a vegan.

Would there be a huge issue with getting most of your protein from eggs/eggwhites? I know people always say to vary your protein intake so would getting most of it from egg whites be bad?

 

[Milton]

Heres a great read by 3J http://www.steroidology.com/forum/diet-forum/680683-protein-intake-article-3j.html

 

[49ER]

I love your YouTube channel Vegan gaims shit is hilarious!

 

[Teutonic]

Y vegetarian b t w ? Not a problem with it just don t know why people don t eat animal s .

I ve never seen a vegetarian who did not need a burger in my life...no offense Juiced. The one s I knew were not good at it as they seemed anemic.

 

[blakey]

Also all that other shit like pea protein ect isn't as easily absorbed by your stomach/body so if you are drinkinga pea protein shake with 22grams of protein you may only get 12grams . Vegetarians can still have a whey protein shake and if your a vegan you have no business in body building go do crossfit or download pokamon go

 

[jozifp103]

I think it has more to do with convenience and cost.

-Convenience: Makes it easier to adjust your macros, specifically carbohydrate intake when using animal proteins. If you hit your carb goal for the day and just need to hit your protein goal...consuming nuts, legumes, quinoa, etc....may put you over your carb goal. Sometimes people want something with just protein.

-Cost: kind of speaks for itself. For the most part, meats are more protein dense than vegetarian sources. A $5 sirloin probably has about 40-60 grams of protein. I'd imagine you'd have to spend quite a bit of cash to get enough nuts, legumes, quinoa, etc to equal that amount of protein. And again, now you're also taking in carbohydrates.

Some plant sources have complete proteins, but they still may not have the best amino acid profiles for muscle building. The amino acid ratios are also important. Luceine probably being the most important amino acid, is present in high amounts in most meats. May not be the case for a lot of vegetables. You can take in whole proteins by consuming two complimentary (incomplete) proteins such as rice and beans. Both proteins are incomplete, but compliment each other to create a whole protein. It can totally be done, but from a convenience and cost standpoint, eating meat is more suitable.

 

[juced_porkchop]

Who frowns upon vegetarian bodybuilding?

Juiced-porkchop is a mod, last time I checked he was vegetarian. It can be done, it just takes more work and *usually* means consuming more overall carbs.

Meat and fish is easy because there are NO carbs. The quinoa and tofu you referenced have significant amounts of carbs. Because of the extremes pro bodybuilders go to they cannot afford (pre contest) to get their protein from sources that come with extra calories and extra carbs. You probably can.

Egg whites are an excellent, bioavailabile source of protein. however, I'd have to eat approx 60 egg whites a day to hit 80% of my protein goal. No thank you.

Going vegetarian won't cripple you or your gains. Go ahead and do it. Just make sure you hit your macros.

Yeah i am a vegetarian for about 12 years or so now an pretty much vegan for the last 3 years. (ill still use some whey mixed in my 60-80%rice/5%soy protein powder and if there is an egg used in say a cake or loaf of bread ill still eat it, not pref though. but i wont/dont eat eggs at all, dont eat cheese (rarely if its in dish sure) and no meat or fish. )

It is very doable, even without eggs (chicken period/abortions ,, no thanks lol)
the thing is many vegetarians/ vegans think that just because they cut meat out of their diet that they are healthier, eating better and are better than everyone else... and thats not true. you can be a very unhealthy vegetarian, id say its pretty easy to be that way without meat if you dont do any research and make no effort to eat well.

its not as simple as just cutting meat out and boom your eating better.
I mean yes i do feel its healthier to be meat free while eating right and knowing what you are doing, but that is not a given and a meat eater could easily outweigh healthiness levels of a non meat eater.

there are alot of "complete proteins" in alot of veggies but also alot that you could simply mix. like beans, broccoli and carrot chilie (with added veggie ground beef is nice too, more protein)
there are alot of meat substitues also that help you enjoy meals you may have been used to. like chicken breast or even meatballs and pasta. but these substitues should be researched and used with caution. one brand might have a healthy alternative for say sliced cold cuts while another company making the same thing could be full of artificial flavors, colors and preservatives. just because its meat free doesnt mean it cant be over processed like junk food. - knowledge it power here.

I generally limit these substitutes regardless, but its nice to boost protein content and/or flavor of the food.

that along with 1-3 protein drink a day with a snack should meet your needs. its totally possible to do without meat and even without eggs.

i rec a b12 supp and a whole food extracted multi v/m to everyone (but extra recommendation of the b12 for veggie heads)

make sure you take in alot of healthy fats, i add olive oil to almost everything i eat, great stuff IMO. if you keep your fats up, protein up and food combinations with carbs in mind you should have no issue keeping carbs med and feel full throughout the day.

 

[juced_porkchop]

I think it has more to do with convenience and cost.

-Convenience: Makes it easier to adjust your macros, specifically carbohydrate intake when using animal proteins. If you hit your carb goal for the day and just need to hit your protein goal...consuming nuts, legumes, quinoa, etc....may put you over your carb goal. Sometimes people want something with just protein.

-Cost: kind of speaks for itself. For the most part, meats are more protein dense than vegetarian sources. A $5 sirloin probably has about 40-60 grams of protein. I'd imagine you'd have to spend quite a bit of cash to get enough nuts, legumes, quinoa, etc to equal that amount of protein. And again, now you're also taking in carbohydrates.

Some plant sources have complete proteins, but they still may not have the best amino acid profiles for muscle building. The amino acid ratios are also important. Luceine probably being the most important amino acid, is present in high amounts in most meats. May not be the case for a lot of vegetables. You can take in whole proteins by consuming two complimentary (incomplete) proteins such as rice and beans. Both proteins are incomplete, but compliment each other to create a whole protein. It can totally be done, but from a convenience and cost standpoint, eating meat is more suitable.

I find its actually a bit cheaper to eat meat free but CAN surpass the meat cost depending on how/what you buy. specially eating out.
it takes some getting used to but you could work with budget, like you would with meat. cheap chicken breasts or grade a++ steaks, there is room to play with even meat free.

I deff agree more work, specially when getting used to it, then it just flows.

man now im hungry, im making today:

tandoori masala flavor dish with
fresh frozen peas, carrots, limabeans
fresh onion, grated carrot, garlic, parsley, basil, okra, sweet pepper, corn
3 chopped up veggie chicken breasts (soy and gluten based protein, love gluten) *gluten isnt bad forvyou if you dont have allergy*
2 tbs margarine
4oz olive oil

served with rice (cooked with some curry powder in it and diced onion and garlic)

yummy!!!

 

[juced_porkchop]

Also all that other shit like pea protein ect isn't as easily absorbed by your stomach/body so if you are drinkinga pea protein shake with 22grams of protein you may only get 12grams . Vegetarians can still have a whey protein shake and if your a vegan you have no business in body building go do crossfit or download pokamon go

iso-rice protein con is a good powder source, not a fan of the pea protein powder, but its absorbed better than you say IMO.

yeah well people say vegetarians/vegans should not bother bodybuilding . or iv been told ill die without meat, now they ask me how i get so big... shocker.. lol

 

[juced_porkchop]

Y vegetarian b t w ? Not a problem with it just don t know why people don t eat animal s .
compassion for all living things?... knowing they feel not only pain but feelings too, some moreso than say your cat or dog AND the fact its NOT needed in most parts of the world if you have money to feed yourself and do not need to hunt or cant gather veggies in your area, so other than "cuzz it tastes good" or "thats what i know" why eat meat should be what you are asking IMO.

in not a preacher type, but you asked lol
than again i literally wont hurt a fly or bug, on purpose anyways ( i catch them in a cup and put outside). I am not Buddhist, but id say that main stream ideal/ "religion" most closely resembles my inner view/truth . respect all life : )

I ve never seen a vegetarian who did not need a burger in my life...no offense Juiced. The one s I knew were not good at it as they seemed anemic.

no offense taken, i agree many look like they are sick with aids or anemic. but thats not due to being meat free thats due to incompetence or lack of effort, IMO

when you think "vegetarian" you usually see something like this in your mind> http://s528.photobucket.com/user/Pisqa_2008/media/skinny.jpg.html

not> View attachment 564986

and yes i know "but plants are alive also" argument, yes there is a life force, but the capacity of awareness, thought and to feel things is not the same as say a dog or cow, in my opinion. and so is not a fair comparison.

 

[Milton]

if your a vegan you have no business in body building go do crossfit or download pokamon go

Or zumba or yoga, but in my humble opinion bodybuilding is a sport for beasts, and beasts eat meat. No offense juced_porkchop because I know your for real.

 

[manstan]

Spirulina, really good source of protein, expensive though. But a fantastic nutrient for everyone imo, i feel turbo charged when I take 3-5 grams a day, I have a fantastic sleep also when I take it.

 

[blakey]

iso-rice protein con is a good powder source, not a fan of the pea protein powder, but its absorbed better than you say IMO.

yeah well people say vegetarians/vegans should not bother bodybuilding . or iv been told ill die without meat, now they ask me how i get so big... shocker.. lol

No offense to you mate and your avi pic is great you look swole. But the truth is humans are just animals some animals eat each other some don't but I do get were your coming from I'm not a big fan of commercial farms and every thing that goes along with that so most of the time I get meat from local butchers who source it from local farms but that's as far as that goes. And as far as the absorption rate of the pea protein it's right that's the only one I know anything about and it tastes terrible but I have had a nice hemp protein shake chocolate you should give it a try if you haven't already almost as good as a whey ;_)

 

[juced_porkchop]

No offense to you mate and your avi pic is great you look swole. But the truth is humans are just animals some animals eat each other some don't but I do get were your coming from I'm not a big fan of commercial farms and every thing that goes along with that so most of the time I get meat from local butchers who source it from local farms but that's as far as that goes. And as far as the absorption rate of the pea protein it's right that's the only one I know anything about and it tastes terrible but I have had a nice hemp protein shake chocolate you should give it a try if you haven't already almost as good as a whey ;_)

This is true but i feel like with our level of awareness and knowledge its not really a fair example.
we could all be swinging from trees tossing shit at eachother and say (well we are animals and used to do that long ago) but ofourse we would not do that or use that example, but thats sort of how i see the (animals are here to eat animals) argument. or another example is we used to chop peoples heads off for simple stealing of food (some places prob still do), but we know better in most parts of the world and have more compassion, but compassion is still lacking in most places IMO. In this day and age i dont personally feel its a very valid excuse, but thats just my opinion.

I agree with you on the commercial farms, its horrible... its bad enough you are going to kill them all, could you not atleast give them a decent life at the very least? I hate commercial farms...

Im not hating on anyone, shit my whole family eats meat and i still love them, these are just my views and i try not to degrade anyone with them, but do like to voice them in a as fair as possible manner when the convo comes up.

i tried some hemp protein that was truly horrible, soo gritty, but i then tried one that was very nice, but a bit expensive, i should try it again though because hemp seed protein is VERY good for you. do you remember the brand you tried?
ohh an pea protein is nasty as F#&* :/

 

[JimiThing]

This is true but i feel like with our level of awareness and knowledge its not really a fair example.
we could all be swinging from trees tossing shit at eachother and say (well we are animals and used to do that long ago) but ofourse we would not do that or use that example, but thats sort of how i see the (animals are here to eat animals) argument. or another example is we used to chop peoples heads off for simple stealing of food (some places prob still do), but we know better in most parts of the world and have more compassion, but compassion is still lacking in most places IMO. In this day and age i dont personally feel its a very valid excuse, but thats just my opinion.

I agree with you on the commercial farms, its horrible... its bad enough you are going to kill them all, could you not atleast give them a decent life at the very least? I hate commercial farms...

Im not hating on anyone, shit my whole family eats meat and i still love them, these are just my views and i try not to degrade anyone with them, but do like to voice them in a as fair as possible manner when the convo comes up.

i tried some hemp protein that was truly horrible, soo gritty, but i then tried one that was very nice, but a bit expensive, i should try it again though because hemp seed protein is VERY good for you. do you remember the brand you tried?
ohh an pea protein is nasty as F#&* :/

The bold above has me laughing so damn hard!

 

[Milton]

This is true but i feel like with our level of awareness and knowledge its not really a fair example.
we could all be swinging from trees tossing shit at each other /

I think we still do, just in a more civilized way lol

 

[blakey]

This is true but i feel like with our level of awareness and knowledge its not really a fair example.
we could all be swinging from trees tossing shit at eachother and say (well we are animals and used to do that long ago) but ofourse we would not do that or use that example, but thats sort of how i see the (animals are here to eat animals) argument. or another example is we used to chop peoples heads off for simple stealing of food (some places prob still do), but we know better in most parts of the world and have more compassion, but compassion is still lacking in most places IMO. In this day and age i dont personally feel its a very valid excuse, but thats just my opinion.

I agree with you on the commercial farms, its horrible... its bad enough you are going to kill them all, could you not atleast give them a decent life at the very least? I hate commercial farms...

Im not hating on anyone, shit my whole family eats meat and i still love them, these are just my views and i try not to degrade anyone with them, but do like to voice them in a as fair as possible manner when the convo comes up.

i tried some hemp protein that was truly horrible, soo gritty, but i then tried one that was very nice, but a bit expensive, i should try it again though because hemp seed protein is VERY good for you. do you remember the brand you tried?
ohh an pea protein is nasty as F#&* :/

Yeah mate I can't argue with you there all valid points. It was hempforce by onit it was a bit pricey but taste excellent