Thinking about doing a restart

[SugarMouth]

I've been on TRT for roughly 20 months and have been thinking about doing a restart to determine how I feel without. I have a few sides that I feel are related to TRT that interfere enough to warrant thinking of coming off. I was in the 370-410ish range of total prior. I have been trying to determine benefits I have experienced on TRT and I believe it mainly to be libido related. So what are your thoughts on a restart to answer those questions if the sides outweigh the benefits? I feel I need to see how it was prior to TRT at this point. Initial labs below so you can see if I should have been on TRT to begin with. Also, will my body be less likely to produce test fro being on TRT for 20 months?

It appears I can't get a photo to attach so sorry for the copy paste.

INSULIN, FASTING Under 5 ***956;***921;U/mL 17.6
HGB A1C less than 5.6% 5.5
GLUCOSE, FASTING 70-85 mg/dL 84
CREATINE KINASE TOTAL 82-1083 U/L 100
BUN 5-26 mg/dL 11
CREATININE ideally<1.1 mg/dL 0.95
EGFR RATE >59 100
CALCIUM 8.5-10.6 mg/dL 10
TOTAL BILIRUBIN 0.1-1.2 mg/dL 0.7
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 25-150 IU/L 59
AST (SGOT) 0-40IU/L 30
ALT (SGPT) 0-55IU/L 52
SODIUM 135-148 mmol/L 141
POTASSIUM 3.5-5.5 mmol/L 4.1
CHLORIDE 96-109 mmol/L 100
CO2 20-32 mmol/L 24
MAGNESIUM 1.6-2.6 mg/dL 2.2
Vitamin D- 25 OH 50-80 ng/ml 27.5

CARDIO CRP <0.55 mg/L 0.54
HOMOCYSTEINE <7.2***956;mol/L 8.3
CHOLESTEROL 180-200 mg/dL 194
TRIGLYCERIDES under 100 mg/dL 127
HDL >40 mg/dL 47
HDL-2 >10 mg/dL 9
LDL-R 0-99 mg/dL 106
VLDL <30 mg/dL 24
LDL Density A A
Apo-B 100 <109 mg/dL 96
LP(a) <10 mg/dL 4

OPTIMAL FOR AGE
IGF-1 200-300 ng/mL 172
FREE T3 3.5-4.2 pg/mL 4.5
FREE T4 0.70-1.53 ng/dL 1.24
TSH 0.35-2.1 mcIU/mL 2.88

ESTRADIOL 20-45 pg/mL 12.7
SHBG 13-71 nmol/L 33
LH 0.5-9.3 mIU/mL 3.5
PSA 0-2.5 ng/mL 0.4
DHEA SULFATE 500-640 ***956;g/dL 182.8
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 500-827 ng/dL 410
FREE TESTOSTERONE 15-25 pg/mL 8.8
DHT 30-80 ng/dL 35

WBC 4.0-10.5x10E3/uL 4.8
RBC 4.1-5.6x10E6/uL 5.23
HEMOGLOBIN 12.5-17.0 g/dL 15.9
HEMATOCRIT 34-50% 46.4
URIC ACID- SERUM 3.7-8.6 ng/dL 4.9

 

[tbonexl]

What sides are you getting from trt?

 

[SugarMouth]

Anxiety which I have had simmer down but has never been normal. Throat feels thicker (uvula) and restricts my airway which I think is causing me to have sleep apnea, was not a problem prior. My sleep has been a problem from the start with TRT. The sleep issue and anxiety is the major issues from it. The other issues are expected like having to keep hemocrit in check and I am at high altitude.

I am curious of people's feedback of my before results if I was even a candidate for TRT.

 

[SugarMouth]

Anxiety which I have had simmer down but has never been normal. Throat feels thicker (uvula) and restricts my airway which I think is causing me to have sleep apnea, was not a problem prior. My sleep has been a problem from the start with TRT. The sleep issue and anxiety is the major issues from it. The other issues are expected like having to keep hemocrit in check and I am at high altitude.

I am curious of people's feedback of my before results if I was even a candidate for TRT.

 

[Thezilla]

How old are you? Who put you on trt? I would say it depends how you felt before trt. 410 to one person may be a totally different feeling for another person. If you were feeling alright I would say you Were not a good candidate. I'm basing this off your test levels only. Have you been using hcg at all the last 20 months?

 

[SugarMouth]

How old are you? Who put you on trt? I would say it depends how you felt before trt. 410 to one person may be a totally different feeling for another person. If you were feeling alright I would say you Were not a good candidate. I'm basing this off your test levels only. Have you been using hcg at all the last 20 months?

I had the typical symptoms, lack of energy, come home from work and sit on the couch like a log, no sex drive, could not force myself in the gym. I tested once at 370 and at 410 total. No HCG. I'm 41.

 

[Thezilla]

I would say a restart is possible but I don't know the advised protocol you would take. I know there has been other threads similar to this talking about the proper amount of hcg and clomid/nolva to take. Maybe somebody else will chime in for ya! Gl

 

[tbonexl]

Are you using an ai?

 

[SugarMouth]

Are you using an ai?

No AI. Estradiol has been anywhere from 25-39 pg/ml over the last 20 months.

 

[SugarMouth]

I would say a restart is possible but I don't know the advised protocol you would take. I know there has been other threads similar to this talking about the proper amount of hcg and clomid/nolva to take. Maybe somebody else will chime in for ya! Gl

I'd stop TRT and 3 weeks later start HCG, Clomid and Nolvadex. We will pull a blood test 10 days after then 30 days after that. 45 day protocol.

This is trial and error for me. I am going to evaluate being off for about 6 months to figure out if I'm better off on or off TRT.

 

[Thezilla]

What test are you using? I would def start your hcg the day after your last pin. 3 weeks?? For instance if it's test e you would start your hcg let's say after your next/last injection and run that for at least ten days. Then on day 14 once the long esters clear and start pumping the clomid/nolva.
I am just uncertain on the amount of hcg and duration you would need based on your situation. You defaintly want to get the hcg going to wake up the boys from vacation

 

[SugarMouth]

What test are you using? I would def start your hcg the day after your last pin. 3 weeks?? For instance if it's test e you would start your hcg let's say after your next/last injection and run that for at least ten days. Then on day 14 once the long esters clear and start pumping the clomid/nolva.
I am just uncertain on the amount of hcg and duration you would need based on your situation. You defaintly want to get the hcg going to wake up the boys from vacation

Yeah not sure the protocol but my doc is saying not to start it until 10 days after my last pin.

 

[jojo25jj]

HCG isn't good for PCT!

 

[juced_porkchop]

odd libido and anxiety got better once i went on hrt.
maybe higher estro or maybe your Tlevels should be a bit higher or lower. i would try dial in hrt first. its not one size fits all (though most docs seem to think it does sadly)

*libido was always high i should mention, i mean it didnt have any issues i should say*

 

[SugarMouth]

odd libido and anxiety got better once i went on hrt.
maybe higher estro or maybe your Tlevels should be a bit higher or lower. i would try dial in hrt first. its not one size fits all (though most docs seem to think it does sadly)

*libido was always high i should mention, i mean it didnt have any issues i should say*

Yeah I am experimenting. I won't know for sure without coming off for 6 months or so to re-evaluate things. I do know the sleep issues and anxiety started within a month or two of starting TRT.

 

[SugarMouth]

HCG isn't good for PCT!

Can you explain?

 

[IMT staff]

At 41 your spinning your wheels on a restart IMO. At the same time many guys like to try a restart just to see if they can recover.

So I am not opposed to doing it but you will probably end up back on TRT, and this time you will use HCG with your TC because you are going to realize how great it makes you feel when you do your restart.

We have been doing a lot of restarts lately with great success, but it does seem that everyone eventually goes back to TRT.

 

[Tarmagoyf]

IMT Staff I need to do a restart myself, I have another thread on this forum, would you mind taking a look and helping out please? I'm at dead end

At 41 your spinning your wheels on a restart IMO. At the same time many guys like to try a restart just to see if they can recover.

So I am not opposed to doing it but you will probably end up back on TRT, and this time you will use HCG with your TC because you are going to realize how great it makes you feel when you do your restart.

We have been doing a lot of restarts lately with great success, but it does seem that everyone eventually goes back to TRT.

 

[SugarMouth]

I am getting conflicting info. For a PCT when is the meds started? My doc wants me to start 3 weeks after my last injection. Input?

 

[IMT staff]

Since you should run HCG for like 2 months you can start whenever. Yes HCG works better when TT levels are sub 400ng/dl, but if your really desensitized you want to start it ASAP. Take advantage of that three weeks.