too much

[dogdog2]

I guess I'm looking for a few 'been there done that' opinions on the following:
67yrs old, currently running aprox 300ml test E, 250 deca per week (divided into two jabs weekly), and (1) 25mb Proviron tab a day.
Occasionally would boost up more testE or add Mast or TrenA for a month or two, but 300 testE and 250 deca a week has been my norm for a couple yrs. From all I've read over the yrs this may be called a TRT+ or just a moderate amount.

Went to doctor last week for blood check because my mojo has gone. For at least the past year sad to say it's been gone. I finally decided to get tested.

Test included complete blood count, some thyroid check, total test and free test (interestingly the dr didn't want to bother with free test but I insisted), and estradoil count.
Total test = 3461 ng/dL
Free test = could not be calculated due to values out of range
E2 = 196 pg/mL
Thyroid said normal range
RBC count was high (and Dr said my face was red)

I was rather confused at this. I didn't know test count could even go that high, and why is my libido gone with that high a number, and why have I not blown up like a muscle monster from lifting? Didn't think I was taking all that much juice, but the blood test report says what it says.

Doc says too high or too low Test can zap libido, and the high E2 relative to the high test didn't warrant any anti estrogen meds. (I haven't grown tits, or gone all weepy emotional, so I guess no problem there). He said his clinic normally gives TestE shots 250mg per mL ampule 2 times a month to achieve 700-1100 ng/dL levels. He suggested I stop all injections for at least 3 weeks - said I should start to 'feel better', and return for followup check in 3 months.

Ok,

 

[Milton]

What are your full stats? weight, height, bf%, past cycle history?

 

[Milton]

At 67, running 300 mg Test E and 250 mg Deca weekly explains your 3461 ng/dL test and sky-high estradiol. Libido loss often comes from estrogen excess, prolactin from Deca, and elevated hematocrit. Many lifters report better quality of life dropping Deca, lowering test to TRT-range, and monitoring prolactin, SHBG, and hematocrit. Balance matters more than raw numbers—moderate doses with controlled estrogen often restore libido, energy, and well-being better than blasting, don’t you think?

 

[dogdog2]

What are your full stats? weight, height, bf%, past cycle history?

67, 90kg, 5'6", bf?20%+, ran juice for the past 8yrs, occasionally on the blast level using various other steroids, but more often on the steady side as I said in my first post. Lift at the gym every other day with the attitude that if I don't feel sore for the next day or three it was a wasted session, and I don't waste days. I 'feel' healthy and good overall and not like a typical old guy. Hardly drink any more (yea that must be the problem ), eat pretty good, retired and life stress is very low.
Given all this I "should" be horny and more. You see my puzzlement at such a high test number and lost mojo.
Thanks,

 

[dogdog2]

At 67, running 300 mg Test E and 250 mg Deca weekly explains your 3461 ng/dL test and sky-high estradiol. Libido loss often comes from estrogen excess, prolactin from Deca, and elevated hematocrit. Many lifters report better quality of life dropping Deca, lowering test to TRT-range, and monitoring prolactin, SHBG, and hematocrit. Balance matters more than raw numbers—moderate doses with controlled estrogen often restore libido, energy, and well-being better than blasting, don’t you think?

from info I have read in this and other forums, I had thought that the amount of juice I'm taking wasn't all that high/that much. Yes a bit above TRT, but not at all close to the amounts I've read others take. but the lab results say different so I'll have to believe that.
I agree with hormone balance being more important that total numbers, as you say.
Doc said optimal test level should be 700>1100 and E2 should be <50. So a safe average of say 900 test and 40 E2 would be a 22:1 ratio. Based on that and my lab results, my E2 should be 157 to be at an optimal ratio. I chuckle to myself trying to play lab analyst....
Will do as the Doc suggested and stop all for 3 weeks and see how I 'feel'.
Thanks,

 

[casanovaaa]

from info I have read in this and other forums, I had thought that the amount of juice I'm taking wasn't all that high/that much. Yes a bit above TRT, but not at all close to the amounts I've read others take. but the lab results say different so I'll have to believe that.
I agree with hormone balance being more important that total numbers, as you say.
Doc said optimal test level should be 700>1100 and E2 should be <50. So a safe average of say 900 test and 40 E2 would be a 22:1 ratio. Based on that and my lab results, my E2 should be 157 to be at an optimal ratio. I chuckle to myself trying to play lab analyst....
Will do as the Doc suggested and stop all for 3 weeks and see how I 'feel'.
Thanks,

Sounds like you’ve been doing your homework and your reasoning on ratios makes sense, even if it’s just for perspective. Taking a break should give you a clearer baseline. Do you think you’ll retest midway through the three weeks or only at the end?

 

[dogdog2]

Sounds like you’ve been doing your homework and your reasoning on ratios makes sense, even if it’s just for perspective. Taking a break should give you a clearer baseline. Do you think you’ll retest midway through the three weeks or only at the end?

I think I'll wait the 3 weeks before retesting, unless I start to feel week and weepy.

 

[Milton]

I think I'll wait the 3 weeks before retesting, unless I start to feel week and weepy.

sounds like a solid plan, keep us posted!

 

[dogdog2]

well, the news you've all been waiting 3 weeks for (or probably not and who give a hoot more likely).

My OP reported a crazy high total test level 3100+ as well as a crazy high E2 level ~200.
Previous Doc said stop all injections etc and see me in 3 weeks and decide how you feel.
OK, I stopped all but creatine and went on with life. Was concerned that I'd begin to feel old and worn out figuring that Test E has a half life of 4-5 days and it should be all but cleared in 3 weeks and my natural production would have been stunted.
Actually feel fine, no different, gym workouts very heavy as always and actually went up a little bit in strength of a few exercises.

Last Friday, almost 3 weeks had past and I went to a different clinic to get blood drawn second time because I didn't like the first Doc nor thought he sounded competent. This new clinic has had good reviews too.

This morning went back for the review the blood drawn 3 days ago. Incidentally the lab the blood gets sent out to is the same lab as the previous time, just different Doc/clinic.

Doc starts going through the report, starts rattling off this that and the other thing that are normal, except for RBC which he said is abnormally high to the point of being an 'emergency'. As in the highest he'd ever encountered at his clinic. He said I should have him remove about a half liter immediately. I was surprised, particularly because 6 months back I had blood drawn at hospital (due to accident) and in passing nurse said I had thin blood. Ok, I won't miss a half liter. Geez Louise!! did that really cute nurse pop out what looked like a 12g needle and grin. She said I am your vampire.

But back to the Doc report review - Total Test was 2181, Prolactin was 12.2 mid low range, SHBG 16.8 was on the low side which he said was good, E2 was 43.4 and considered still high. Other stuff was all said to be normal.
I asked how can Total Test still be at 2181 after 3 weeks of nothing? He said it was his opinion that the original test (3100+) was as high as the machine could measure and in reality the number was likely much higher, so the drop to 2181 was substantial.
Hmmph.
He said give it another week and recheck blood, thinks it will be down to a high 'normal level' like 1200 or so, and E2 should also be lower.

So I'm still wondering (and asked) where Mr Libido is and when he will return, especially with high free test, low prolactin, and an abundance of total Test. Doc said my natural test production is likely shut down and will need to restart before horny starts setting in again, regardless of total Test level. Said may then recommend HCG and possibly an E blocker then too.

Sorry for the longish post.