Tren for sheer size and mass....

[jozifp103]

After my last thread on stacking tren and nandrolone for bulking, I got some varying opinions on the inclusion of tren while bulking.

Some were saying (on other forums) that tren is the worst steroid for mass and better suited for cutting and hardening...and nandrolone will be far superior for adding size. I can see the reason behind this train of thought because nandrolone carries a lot of water and glycogen retention. But this "mass" nandrolone gives isn't all muscle. I only have one low dose tren cycle under my belt and I was cutting so I didn't notice much in the ways of size.

HOWEVER

The anabolic ratio would lead me to believe that tren would also be very suitable for putting on serious lbs of mass. Despite the lack of water weight, I think overall it would pack on more lean mass. But it doesn't give you that watery, puffy, bulky look so one might think they're not gaining as much mass when in reality they are gaining more LBM.




Am I wrong here? What do you all think?

 

[anzel]

I have read it over and over and practiced it many times..... diet is key. You can bulk on anything or cut on anything. It's all about diet right?
But I question this thinking. Only because there are so many cycles using so many different aas.
If diet is the deciding factor then why have tren, mast, tbol,dbol,deca, etc.
We would all do well on some test and perfect diet.
But u clearly see more elite guys running test deca anadrol during bulks and test tren anavar during cuts.

I have seen pics of jacked up shredded guys on tren. They put up with tren cough and other sides to get that look.

I have seen pics of guys on test deca and they are shredded and jacked too!

Plenty of guys stay clear of tren and do well on other compounds.

I'm trying out tren a 100mg eod
Waiting to see.but so far I'm thinking deca is better for size. But I may change my mind in a few weeks

I know I love deca.
Test is test. The king!
Orals, not to happy with.

Diet is most significant but the placement of these compounds must have some smaller effect on your goals depending if you want to bulk or cut.
And using the proper amount of AI will keep any type of bloat out of a test deca cycle. So that shouldn't really matter.

 

[DickBlazer]

Tren never gave me much weight but it does change the look of your body positively. That's just my experience

 

[anzel]

Hey dick, we're you eating a bulk diet tho?

 

[ELicit23]

I have always bulked on Tren. It's the strongest steroid... Why the hell wouldn't it be used for a bulker? People just love that watery look I guess... Sure gains are faster because of water retention... But in the end wouldn't it amazing to know that you won't lose all that water? I consider it like this: with Tren; what you see is what you get. With test E: I wonder that I'm gonna look like after all this water is gone.

 

[anzel]

But with a proper dosage of AI u won't have a watery,wet or bloated look.
High estrogen retains water.
So a test,deca cycle should be water free

 

[ELicit23]

But with a proper dosage of AI u won't have a watery,wet or bloated look.
High estrogen retains water.
So a test,deca cycle should be water free

I believe that there will always be some sort of water there. But regardless, that helps too. I believe in numbers. A:A ratios. The only thing that I can think of to make me overlook the A:A ratio of something is the way it makes you feel. Hell, if deca will make me feel like a god on 750 mg as opposed to Tren making me feel tired on 750 mg, I'll choose Deca. unfortunately, I never tried deca and it's too late since I already ordered my Tren bulker. Deca WILL be my winter cycle this year though. For the summer I'll be running Tren a/test p/mast P at 700 each.

 

[DickBlazer]

Hey dick, we're you eating a bulk diet tho?

I thought I was but in retrospect I suppose I was actually
NOT eating enough

 

[ELicit23]

I thought I was but in retrospect I suppose I was actually
NOT eating enough

I would kill to be stuffing my face right now. 9 weeks into keto with only 2 refeeds sure sucks but the results are amazing.

 

[Wrasse02]

I have always bulked on Tren. It's the strongest steroid... Why the hell wouldn't it be used for a bulker? People just love that watery look I guess... Sure gains are faster because of water retention... But in the end wouldn't it amazing to know that you won't lose all that water? I consider it like this: with Tren; what you see is what you get. With test E: I wonder that I'm gonna look like after all this water is gone.

Agreed.
The ability to put on lean mass while getting dryer, leaner, and more vascular are why I bulk with tren

 

[halfwit]

I have read it over and over and practiced it many times..... diet is key. You can bulk on anything or cut on anything. It's all about diet right?
But I question this thinking. Only because there are so many cycles using so many different aas.
If diet is the deciding factor then why have tren, mast, tbol,dbol,deca, etc.
We would all do well on some test and perfect diet.
But u clearly see more elite guys running test deca anadrol during bulks and test tren anavar during cuts.

I have seen pics of jacked up shredded guys on tren. They put up with tren cough and other sides to get that look.

I have seen pics of guys on test deca and they are shredded and jacked too!

Plenty of guys stay clear of tren and do well on other compounds.

I'm trying out tren a 100mg eod
Waiting to see.but so far I'm thinking deca is better for size. But I may change my mind in a few weeks

I know I love deca.
Test is test. The king!
Orals, not to happy with.

Diet is most significant but the placement of these compounds must have some smaller effect on your goals depending if you want to bulk or cut.
And using the proper amount of AI will keep any type of bloat out of a test deca cycle. So that shouldn't really matter.

Tren has a benefit that it's brethren lack; nutrient partitioning, which is why it's so popular with cutting. You can be at a deficit, and STILL make some gains in LBM. I find it to be a little exaggerated, but it's very real in that regard IME.

Nandrolone adds the thickening of synovial fluid in compound joints on top of being quite anabolic. This means you can lift heavier with less pain, which adds to the reputation of being a "bulker". Of course, before AI use was prevalent, the fact that it does aromatize gave it the title of a "wet" compound.

DHT derivatives free up sex hormones by binding to SHBG. Some even bind at the androgen receptors over estradiol, reducing side effects of estradiol (just noticeable ones like water retention) in tissues. They also tend to have aa bit more androgenic activity, so those benefits (and sides) become more apparent.

Then there's the "specific purpose" drugs like winstrol or boldenone. Winstrol is essentially an anabolic diuretic (DHT derivative), and boldenone aids with appetite as well as being known for red cell generation.

Can you bulk or cut on really anything? Yup. Diet is truly what even determines whether you're bulking or cutting, where the choice of AAS really just enhances in some cases. Like if one were about to compete in a show, and wanted to bring out that definition even more, winstrol makes sense. However, if bulking - it would be a less than stellar choice.

Luckily, trenbolone can be used for either without losing any true benefits. It is crazy anabolic and androgenic, helps put your food to better use, and doesn't aromatize. Sounds pretty win/win as long as the sides don't overwhelm the benefits.

My .02c

 

[Xander24]

I can't lose mass on tren. Seriously, I have tried fasting all day on the stuff, and I still either maintain or gain a little, and even though I drink like a gallon a day it isn't water weight as I weigh in dry in the morning. But I can't fast for more than say 18 hours because I get so hungry on the stuff. What I find happens with a clean diet is just a total and absolute recomposition of my body. And it is awesome. What a glorious compound. I can run Tren A up to 100mg ED and my worst sides are the occasional afternoon lethargy, rough cardio which does seem to subside over time, sweaty gym sessions always (can feel like you are on chemotherapy), hot flashes here and there (usually a few hours after injection), sweating when I eat, a little short with stupid people, and the occasional psychotic dream that has you waking up thinking you are going to jail until you realise it was a dream and thank your lucky stars.

I sleep fine, have no night sweats as I sleep with a fan on, but can wake up around 2am every now and then, but do go back to sleep. It's mind boggling when you think that a 100mg injection of tren is equivalent to shooting 500mg of test. You can do anything you want with it. It's all about diet and training methodology. Again, just a glorious thing if you can tolerate it. Love it, love it, love it. 4 more weeks to go and it will be my first time making it to 16 weeks on it. Have gone from 16% BF to sub 10% and only running a caloric deficit of 500, and that's as low a deficit as I want to go with it as things get miserable below that. That is a cut, even though my weight has stayed the same. Can't see how anyone can disagree.

As for Deca.... meh. I bloat and and get watery. No separation like tren. NPP is the better choice, stack with mast or primo of course, but mast is better for the DHT. NPP/ Mast/ Primo stack is a s close to Tren as you can get. but why not just run tren and leave the Deca or NPP alone? As somebody already said, it's water, and what else has the 5 to 1 anabolic androgenic ratio tren does?

If I want my joints lubricated I will run Primo. Keeps me lean, lubricated and locks in gains you will never lose. Just have to shoot allot and it's allot of $$$$. There is only 1 19-nor for me, and I don't really worry about weight as tren is all about recomposition of the body. Best bang for your buck and you will reach whatever goal you want.

The trick to the trade is to keep test at TRT levels. As I am on TRT this is easy. 125mg EW for life and I just blast other compounds. This means estrogen is already under control, so less sides and no water retention. I do run caber even though I am not prone to progestin/prolactin sides. Why? Because why not? I see nothing wrong with running a dopamine agonist while on it. Enhances mood and I get no bad sides from it like prami. Tren/ Mast stack being my staple, then I run Primo for another 16 weeks after that to lock it in. I became a fatty for a bit here because I just had my first kid and had to give up some gym time fore a bit. Back in the game with old Tren. Seriously dude, you can do ANYTHING you want with this compound. It's beautiful. In the early days I started low, like 50mg ED to see how I tolerated it. 4 weeks later iI felt great and upped it to 75mg. It was an adjustment for 2 or 3 days, then upped it to 100 and have rocked that ever since. Slow and steady with it as it is not to be taken lightly. Ever notice how when you run a cycle of tren, no matter what you did (gain big mass or lose a few and get super cut) everyone is telling you that you look "lean"? Always that word. Lean. That tells you all you need to know because nobody is telling you that after 12 to 16 weeks of Deca. Most are bloated pigs after that. Not after running tren my friends.

 

[DinoTexas]

Xander, what's your Caber dose out of curiosity? .5 e3d?

 

[Mountain-Man]

I have used slin to cut diet is key tren is the king ESP psl tren

 

[Xander24]

Yes, I run my tren A for 16 weeks usually, doing the same routine every time. Again, never leaving my TRT dose of test at 125mg pinned 2 x / week. Week 1-6 50mg Tren A ED. during this time I run my caber at .25mg every 3.5 days. Remember, I do not have a propensity for prolactin related gyno. Just like I don't for estrogen related gyno. I'm not gyno prone in any way shape or form. My main reason for using caber is for blood pressure control, which used in conjunction with my blood pressure medication, Telmesartin dosed at 80mg ED (interestingly they warn against the combination of these two as it can lower BP too much. Well not for the Tren/Mast user!!!) , as well as Cialis 10mg e4d has my Blood Pressure around 135- 150/ 82- 85, which is just fine. Diastolic being what is important here.

Week 7-12 75mg Tren A ED where I bump caber up to .5mg every 3.5 days, and stay there for weeks 13-16 at 100mg ED.

Now your next question is why do I tapper up on Tren A? Because Tren is toxic, and it's not like 50mg ED is a light dose of tren for anyone, and every tren cycle is its own wild card. I respect the stuff and I like to let my body react to it, adapt and adjust. Feel it out every single time I run it. It's effective at 50mg ED, especially if you are starting around 12% BF. And I'll tell you that running it this way negates all negative sides over time very quickly for me. Not that I get many negative sides with a a TRT dose of test anyways.

By week 16 I'm doing cardio with minimal lung burn at 100mg ED. Happy as a fly on shit except a bit of road rage and a short temper, mostly just dickhead sarcasm that derives from the arrogance 16 weeks of Tren can breed. It's my limit whether I am physically tolerating it or not. The only time I get sides doing tren this way is when I up my dose each time. For 3 days I get so lethargic during the afternoon and get that toxic blahness that just drains you. I literally will fall asleep sitting down and have to take a 15 minute power nap to survive. Then I wake up on day 4 and could not tell you I'm on tren except I look in the mirror and my jaw drops every morning. Also get absolutely psychotic dreams every now and then. Usually when I drink which is usually work related. Those dreams can do your head in.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

I've never had good experiences with Tren because of the sides... Although I a planning another attempt at the enanthate ester at a low dose, low enough that you can throw your javelins my way saying it wont work but am currently on 125mg Test/125mg EQ E5D atm (175mg each per week it totals too) as a cruise and responded well to 200mg Tren E per week that I personally thought the sides even at that dose were a bit strong FWIW.

I find Tren Acetate a real ngood kick and 50mg EOD was the absolute most I could tolerate which in saying all recothis, Tren for me gives me wicked side, but nothng comapres to it in terms for all round shear size if you eat enough, even then it slaps on muscle, will chew fat away and give this type of look that if possible to replicate I would say you would need a whole lotta Anavar and Masteron to really even come close.

Hence why 70-100mg per week total for me I have no doubts I will find it be fairly mild yet still do it's thing. Ofcourse mroe is better, but with Tren... That just ain't true.

 

[Xander24]

Tren is good for all around recom********** If you go Intermittent diet, and fast while timing your carbs right, you can do magic in weeks. Stay exactly the same weight but total transformation. Nothing like it in my opinion. If primo can work at 200mg / week on TRT hey, why not tren? LOL, Good luck with the E, but in my opinion the bad sides come from fluctuating blood levels of tren. For me sides are adjusted to even at 100mg / day when I can stay at the same dose injected during the same time ED. Just going to shoot it with the test and she where it goes. Good luck, as for me every tren cycle has been a bit different. Good stuff.

I've never had good experiences with Tren because of the sides... Although I a planning another attempt at the enanthate ester at a low dose, low enough that you can throw your javelins my way saying it wont work but am currently on 125mg Test/125mg EQ E5D atm (175mg each per week it totals too) as a cruise and responded well to 200mg Tren E per week that I personally thought the sides even at that dose were a bit strong FWIW.

I find Tren Acetate a real ngood kick and 50mg EOD was the absolute most I could tolerate which in saying all recothis, Tren for me gives me wicked side, but nothng comapres to it in terms for all round shear size if you eat enough, even then it slaps on muscle, will chew fat away and give this type of look that if possible to replicate I would say you would need a whole lotta Anavar and Masteron to really even come close.

Hence why 70-100mg per week total for me I have no doubts I will find it be fairly mild yet still do it's thing. Ofcourse mroe is better, but with Tren... That just ain't true.

 

[luckypaul]

IF you stack it with test equal portions, It is effective to bulk up. I dpn't think it is better than nandrolone. I know of no other aas that cuts me up better.

 

[anzel]

As this thread has been going on I have been using tren a for my 2nd time. 100mg eod with a test dose of 800mg.
After 5 weeks I increased my tren a dose to 75mg ED. Starting today actually.
My weight actually dropped about 2 or 3 lbs because I altered my diet slightly. So I changed my dose and I'm adding in more clalories.

 

[vidorando]

As this thread has been going on I have been using tren a for my 2nd time. 100mg eod with a test dose of 800mg.
After 5 weeks I increased my tren a dose to 75mg ED. Starting today actually.
My weight actually dropped about 2 or 3 lbs because I altered my diet slightly. So I changed my dose and I'm adding in more clalories.

yeah man, you really must eat a lot on tren when bulking. I eat about 4500kcal just to maintain my weight lol. When doing that I am abled to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. Greatest recomp compound