TRT and Valium/Klonopin Withdrawal.

[buildingpaul]

Thought of this the other day. I am sure I have read that Men prescribed the likes of Klonopin or Valium find it easier to withdraw from these types of medication when on TRT, anyone else found or know anything about this?

 

[halfwit]

Wasn't on valium, but was on a hefty dose of klonopin and xanax. I was able to titrate down and eventually quit them both because of TRT. Luckily I didn't suffer many withdrawal sides compared to something like cold turkey opiates (which is why no matter how much pain I'm in, I'm NEVER getting back on them) - it's doable.

Just be sure to let your doc know what you're doing so they can help you bring the doses down SAFELY. You have to be careful with ceasing these types of meds as they do alter brain chemistry and can have disastrous results if not done properly. I know you're on the other side of the pond, but if you're doing this self-prescribed, there might also be 24 hour nurse hotlines that are free that can help as well.

My .02c

 

[buildingpaul]

Wasn't on valium, but was on a hefty dose of klonopin and xanax. I was able to titrate down and eventually quit them both because of TRT. Luckily I didn't suffer many withdrawal sides compared to something like cold turkey opiates (which is why no matter how much pain I'm in, I'm NEVER getting back on them) - it's doable.

Just be sure to let your doc know what you're doing so they can help you bring the doses down SAFELY. You have to be careful with ceasing these types of meds as they do alter brain chemistry and can have disastrous results if not done properly. I know you're on the other side of the pond, but if you're doing this self-prescribed, there might also be 24 hour nurse hotlines that are free that can help as well.

My .02c

Always so helpful bud, thank you. I am on 12mg of Valium per day and 0.5mg of Klonopin per day, been on this dose for over 10 years, I really want to cut down now as read so many bad things about long term benzo abuse.......To be honest bud I am scared stiff as in reducing the dose as read many many horror stories, but from what you have just said has given me hope

 

[methos0123]

"Luckily I didn't suffer many withdrawal sides compared to something like cold turkey opiates (which is why no matter how much pain I'm in, I'm NEVER getting back on them) - it's doable."

You should give tramadol a try for pain. They work for me and don't have near the same sides as the hydro's or what not.

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

Having TRT during withdrawal of benzos is very helpful because TRT increases your energy and CNS. Going through withdrawals of medications usually depress the CNS and makes you lethargic.

With the benzos you have to be very careful and make sure you taper properly. Consult your Doctor and see what the best course of action would be. It may take some time but in the end it is worth it if the original reasons for starting has disappeared.

Best of luck!

 

[halfwit]

Always so helpful bud, thank you. I am on 12mg of Valium per day and 0.5mg of Klonopin per day, been on this dose for over 10 years, I really want to cut down now as read so many bad things about long term benzo abuse.......To be honest bud I am scared stiff as in reducing the dose as read many many horror stories, but from what you have just said has given me hope

I think you can do it as long as the issues causing you to need them are able to subside. I had panic attacks and really bad restless leg syndrome, which both went away some time after I started TRT. You can do it, just be sure to be careful and take your time. Benzo use long-term can cause some pretty bad problems (lowering IQ is an actual side for some of them!), but it is a delicate balancing act on which is worse; the drugs or the cause for needing them.

"Luckily I didn't suffer many withdrawal sides compared to something like cold turkey opiates (which is why no matter how much pain I'm in, I'm NEVER getting back on them) - it's doable."

You should give tramadol a try for pain. They work for me and don't have near the same sides as the hydro's or what not.

Except it's also an opiod. After my fight with hydromorphone and the subsequent cold turkey due to a quack for a doctor refusing to let me taper down, I'm terrified of them. That and opiates are what fried my testes, putting me in this very forum.

Thanks for the suggestion though!

 

[Alpin]

Having TRT during withdrawal of benzos is very helpful because TRT increases your energy and CNS. Going through withdrawals of medications usually depress the CNS and makes you lethargic.

With the benzos you have to be very careful and make sure you taper properly. Consult your Doctor and see what the best course of action would be. It may take some time but in the end it is worth it if the original reasons for starting has disappeared.

Best of luck!

"TRT increases CNS"??
Can you tell us more on this. I find this very true. I use to be able to drink 3 coffees a day when hypogonadal and when I went on TRT...after 1 coffee in the morning I didn't need another one all day. Made me feel to jittery.

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

Having more testosterone and the resulting DHT(which binds very strongly to CNS ARs) in your body activates Androgen receptors in the central nervous system so you feel more alert, have more energy etc. This CNS stimulation from Testosterone is what helps people that experience relief from chronic pain as well and is shown to help with that.

Sex hormones, central nervous system and pain.
Sex hormones, central nervous system and pain. [Horm Behav. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Alpin]

Having more testosterone and the resulting DHT(which binds very strongly to CNS ARs) in your body activates Androgen receptors in the central nervous system so you feel more alert, have more energy etc. This CNS stimulation from Testosterone is what helps people that experience relief from chronic pain as well and is shown to help with that.

Sex hormones, central nervous system and pain.
Sex hormones, central nervous system and pain. [Horm Behav. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

I hear you....
but where is the entire article saying all this (that T stimulates CNS) with energy?
I had a GP that blasted me saying T does not give energy....
Docs like these need to be confronted with the cold hard facts on studies completed.
Only then will they be humbled.

 

[buildingpaul]

Having TRT during withdrawal of benzos is very helpful because TRT increases your energy and CNS. Going through withdrawals of medications usually depress the CNS and makes you lethargic.

Thank you for your reply but I am a bit nervous now! I cant even drink a coffee as that will send me in to panic as I suffer from bad anxiety, so anything that stimulates my CNS will make me even more nervy My last bloods were 228 so still low.

 

[SicVic]

Thank you for your reply but I am a bit nervous now! I cant even drink a coffee as that will send me in to panic as I suffer from bad anxiety, so anything that stimulates my CNS will make me even more nervy My last bloods were 228 so still low.

Seems like a double edged sword, and a never ending cycle. You take the Fear out of your heart, you take the energy out of your ass. You put the energy in your ass, the fear jumps in your heart. Just can't win in this world. Natural Supplements seem to work out a little better. Best of luck to you and I hope everything turns out well.

 

[halfwit]

Thank you for your reply but I am a bit nervous now! I cant even drink a coffee as that will send me in to panic as I suffer from bad anxiety, so anything that stimulates my CNS will make me even more nervy My last bloods were 228 so still low.

Whoa. You're 228 at what dose??! That's a HUGE part of your problem man!

 

[buildingpaul]

Whoa. You're 228 at what dose??! That's a HUGE part of your problem man!

228......Is that not good bud? They still wont treat me here in the UK. I am 39 and symptoms are......lack of energy, concentration is almost zero, irritable, sad, confused, very low sex drive, erections are poor and for some reason increased abdominal fat? Being in the UK Steroids are legal, well not to sell but to buy. So I have a heap load of Bayer Enanthate, Organon Sust 250, ISis Test Prop, ISis Test Cyp and a heap load more so pretty much ready

 

[buildingpaul]

These are my supplies I have. Bayer Test E at 250mg per 1ml and Sust 250 1ml. Maybe if I try say half a vial of Enth to begin with so 125mg a week?


These are some more of my supplies, but I don't know if the likes of Dbol, Anap 50's (I have the proper ones!) Winstrol etc etc would help me, or if anything could make me worse?

Removed photos

 

[halfwit]

228......Is that not good bud? They still wont treat me here in the UK. I am 39 and symptoms are......lack of energy, concentration is almost zero, irritable, sad, confused, very low sex drive, erections are poor and for some reason increased abdominal fat? Being in the UK Steroids are legal, well not to sell but to buy. So I have a heap load of Bayer Enanthate, Organon Sust 250, ISis Test Prop, ISis Test Cyp and a heap load more so pretty much ready

I want to verify: we're talking 228ng/dL, right? I know you're from across the big pond, so you guys usually use pmol/L or nmol/L. If it is indeed ng/dL, that's VERY low and qualifies for TRT here in the states. I thought you were already on testosterone?

If that's with testosterone supplementation, there's something VERY wrong with it.

These are my supplies I have. Bayer Test E at 250mg per 1ml and Sust 250 1ml. Maybe if I try say half a vial of Enth to begin with so 125mg a week?


These are some more of my supplies, but I don't know if the likes of Dbol, Anap 50's (I have the proper ones!) Winstrol etc etc would help me, or if anything could make me worse?

Removed photos

Yeah, we have to be careful in this section when referring to non-prescribed meds/UGL stuff. Bring this over to the main AAS section or pm me and we can talk about that. I don't want to discuss self-treatment in the TRT section, even though I know how crummy you guys have it there with getting on legit prescribed care for hypogonadism.

 

[buildingpaul]

228ng/dl bud which is the States version, in the UK it works out at 7.2nmol. I will PM you later bud as just popping out.

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

I hear you....
but where is the entire article saying all this (that T stimulates CNS) with energy?
I had a GP that blasted me saying T does not give energy....
Docs like these need to be confronted with the cold hard facts on studies completed.
Only then will they be humbled.

Haha, I know exactly what you are talking about. Show him this article or memorize some of the enzymes mentioned in the article and try to explain to him. Sometimes the doc will just get upset and refuse treatment because it feels like you are lecturing him. And at that point, you should probably get another doc.

I have this article however it is filled with a lot of words which need to be defined and enzymes which need to be looked up to understand their expression and reason for being there. Hopefully this will provide you some legitimacy of the interaction. Understand that some things are very hard to prove in a lab but anecdotally it has been proven to a level which makes me assured to say it is true.

Mainly the article is mentioning enzyme activity, you may glance at the article and say. It doesn't even say testosterone in that article. But most of the enzymes are involved in the metabolism of testosterone, estrogen, dihydrotestosterone and so forth. There are some are some bold portions which may be he portions worth reading.

From wiki:
Neuroactive steroid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Neuroactive steroids (or neurosteroids) rapidly alter neuronal excitability through interaction with neurotransmitter-gated ion channels.[1][2] In addition, these steroids may also exert effects on gene expression via intracellular steroid hormone receptors. Neurosteroids have a wide range of potential clinical applications from sedation to treatment of epilepsy[3] and traumatic brain injury.[4][5] Ganaxolone, an analog of the endogenous neurosteroid allopregnanolone, is under investigation for the treatment of epilepsy.[6]


Neurosteroids: Expression of Steroidogenic Enzymes and Regulation of Steroid Biosynthesis in the Central Nervous System
Neurosteroids: Expression of Steroidogenic Enzymes and Regulation of Steroid Biosynthesis in the Central Nervous System

From intro:
Neurosteroids occur in the nervous system as unconjugated steroids, sulfated esters of steroids, or fatty acid esters of steroids (Jo et al., 1989). These various forms of steroids are involved in the control of metabolic, behavioral, and psychical processes including cognition, stress, anxiety, and sleep (Majewska, 1992; Baulieu and Robel, 1996).

Neurosteroids, which are involved in the regulation of stress responses, anxiety, sleep, neurodegenerative processes, aggressive behavior, and cognitive activities, are now considered as key factors of chemical neurotransmission. Because most of the biochemical pathways of neurosteroidogenesis are now elucidated (Fig. 7), the main questions which have to be answered during the next years concern the role of classical neurotransmitters and neuropeptides in the control of the expression of steroidogenic enzyme genes and activities in the brain.
XIII. Conclusion and Clinical Implications

Neuroanatomical and biochemical studies have now firmly established that several key enzymes of steroidogenesis such as P-450scc, 3***946;-HSD, cytochrome P-450c17, 17***946;-HSD, 5***945;-R, and aromatase are present in the brain of vertebrates (Fig. 7). The occurrence of sulfotransferase and sulfatase which catalyze the formation and deconjugation of sulfated esters of steroids, respectively, has also been demonstrated (Fig. 7). The cellular localization of these enzymes indicates that various types of nerve cells, either neurons or glial cells or both, participate in the biosynthesis of unconjugated and sulfated neurosteroids. Other enzymatic activities involved in the synthesis or metabolism of steroid hormones, such as 3***945;-HSD, acyltransferase, 7***945;-hydroxylase, and P-450aldo have also been detected in the CNS (Fig. 7) but the anatomical distribution of these enzymes remains to be determined.

To date, little is known concerning the involvement of steroidogenic enzymes expressed by nerve cells in the physiopathology of the nervous system. Therefore, the possible pharmacological implications are currently a matter of speculation. The decrease in the concentration of ***916;5PS in the rat hippocampus during aging (Robel et al., 1995) suggests the existence of a correlation between the levels of sulfated neurosteroids and neurodegenerative processes. A promising therapeutic application would be to compensate the decline of the DHEAS level in aging subjects by administering moderate amounts of DHEA, a lipophilic substrate of HST which can easily cross the blood-brain barrier to be converted, in the CNS, into DHEAS (Baulieu and Robel, 1996, 1998). Another pharmacological approach would be to develop novel psychotropic agents which may selectively control, in nerve cells, the expression and/or activity of enzymes involved in the biosynthesis of potent neuroactive neurosteroids such as allopregnanolone, DHEA, ***916;5P, and their sulfated derivatives.

Neurosteroids, which are involved in the regulation of stress responses, anxiety, sleep, neurodegenerative processes, aggressive behavior, and cognitive activities, are now considered as key factors of chemical neurotransmission. Because most of the biochemical pathways of neurosteroidogenesis are now elucidated (Fig. 7), the main questions which have to be answered during the next years concern the role of classical neurotransmitters and neuropeptides in the control of the expression of steroidogenic enzyme genes and activities in the brain.


XIV. Summary

Steroid hormones exert important functions in the control of growth, maturation, and differentiation of the central and peripheral nervous systems. These actions have long been attributed exclusively to steroid hormones secreted by endocrine glands, i.e., adrenal, ovary, and testis. However, during the last decade, it has been shown that nerve cells (both neurons and glial cells) are capable of synthesizing bioactive steroids, now called neurosteroids, which also participate in the control of various functions in the CNS. One of the major criteria supporting the concept of neurosteroidogenesis is based on the occurrence of steroidogenic enzymes in nerve cells. Immunocytochemical and in situ hybridization techniques have made it possible to determine the neuroanatomical distribution of key enzymes such as P-450scc, 3***946;-HSD, cytochrome P-450c17, 17***946;-HSD, 5***945;-R, aromatase, sulfotransferase, and sulfatase. Concurrently, the presence of enzymatic activities for steroid biosynthesis has been demonstrated in neurons and/or glial cells, thus indicating that the isozymes expressed in nerve cells actually correspond to active forms of the steroidogenic enzymes. Recent studies concerning the control of the expression and activity of key steroidogenic enzymes in the CNS strongly suggest that neurosteroidogenesis may be regulated by adrenal and gonadal steroids as well as by neuropeptides of the endozepine family.

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

Thank you for your reply but I am a bit nervous now! I cant even drink a coffee as that will send me in to panic as I suffer from bad anxiety, so anything that stimulates my CNS will make me even more nervy My last bloods were 228 so still low.

No, sorry don't misinterpret it! It will not make you nervy, TRT has be shown to help against anxiety, depression and brain fog.

 

[Therealkozmo]

Does anyone have experience starting TRT during a period where you still have symptoms from benzo withdrawal?

 

[jack chan]

bump! anyone?

Does anyone have experience starting TRT during a period where you still have symptoms from benzo withdrawal?