Wanting to start first cycle...

[Hoss_12]

I've read a lot of these posts and threads and hung around a while I hope I get all the information in here. I have just a couple questions that will be spread through the post and any advice would be great thank you.
Stats
5' 10
205lbs
10%bf
Age=20
Lifting for 5 years solid.

I understand and have read the recommended age is 24-25 because of the brain not being fully developed if I understood that right. Just to counter that I matured mentally very early and graduated high school at 16 and college at 19. I don't know if that is relevant. With that said I feel I am pretty close to my genetic limit and have decided to run a cycle. It would be test only

Test prop 1-12 525mg/week pinned eod
1-12 arimidex .5 mg eod adjust with blood work mid cycle from what I've read.
Hcg 1-12 250 iu's 2x a week. This helps make recovery easier correct?
NAC at 1200mg/day
Pct... 5-8 days after last pin I think is correct?
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50

I believe this has covered everything. It would be a lean bulk. I am hoping to get to around 220 with the same bf%. I would be at a small caloric surplus for the first 8 weeks probably around 150-200 cal. Then the last 4 weeks drop to maintence calorie intake. Any suggestions or thoughts would be great. I will say thank you in advance.

 

[Roush]

You've never pinned before.. Pinning prop eod for 12 straight weeks,, your gonna be one sore mother F'er..
For a first cycle I'd go with a long Esther test with less pinning. If you wanna do the prop, do it as a front load or kick start along side test e or c for the first 5 weeks,, but pinning prop eod for 12 straight weeks for a noob and virgin muscles is gonna be painful, I don't recommend it

 

[tury694]

I've read a lot of these posts and threads and hung around a while I hope I get all the information in here. I have just a couple questions that will be spread through the post and any advice would be great thank you.
Stats
5' 10
205lbs
10%bf
Age=20
Lifting for 5 years solid.

I understand and have read the recommended age is 24-25 because of the brain not being fully developed if I understood that right. Just to counter that I matured mentally very early and graduated high school at 16 and college at 19. I don't know if that is relevant. With that said I feel I am pretty close to my genetic limit and have decided to run a cycle. It would be test only

Test prop 1-12 525mg/week pinned eod
1-12 arimidex .5 mg eod adjust with blood work mid cycle from what I've read.
Hcg 1-12 250 iu's 2x a week. This helps make recovery easier correct?
NAC at 1200mg/day
Pct... 5-8 days after last pin I think is correct?
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50

I believe this has covered everything. It would be a lean bulk. I am hoping to get to around 220 with the same bf%. I would be at a small caloric surplus for the first 8 weeks probably around 150-200 cal. Then the last 4 weeks drop to maintence calorie intake. Any suggestions or thoughts would be great. I will say thank you in advance.

At 20 you are still so young, but you have done your research. I say that if you are truly dedicated to this you should go for it. The adex dosage seems high. Try .25 eod to start with. It is nice that you have researched all of this on your own. Try to increase the calories a little more than 200 above maintenance. Try at least 800 above maintenance and you will grow very fast man.

 

[tury694]

You've never pinned before.. Pinning prop eod for 12 straight weeks,, your gonna be one sore mother F'er..
For a first cycle I'd go with a long Esther test with less pinning. If you wanna do the prop, do it as a front load or kick start along side test e or c for the first 5 weeks,, but pinning prop eod for 12 straight weeks for a noob and virgin muscles is gonna be painful, I don't recommend it

He might react well to it. If he chose prop then he better fucking man up and expect some pip. I'm glad this kid did his research even though he is a bit young IMO. A long ester would be better only because of the pip issue.

 

[Hoss_12]

You've never pinned before.. Pinning prop eod for 12 straight weeks,, your gonna be one sore mother F'er..
For a first cycle I'd go with a long Esther test with less pinning. If you wanna do the prop, do it as a front load or kick start along side test e or c for the first 5 weeks,, but pinning prop eod for 12 straight weeks for a noob and virgin muscles is gonna be painful, I don't recommend it

I chose test prop because from what I've understood it reacts quicker then test e because of the ester length. I see a lot of people recommend test e for around a 14-15 week cycle and as it being my first cycle wanted to go just 12 weeks and see how that felt. I would be rotating sites. Delts, quads, butt. I assumed I would just get use to it after a week or 2 needles don't bother me so I wasn't to worried about it.

 

[Hoss_12]

At 20 you are still so young, but you have done your research. I say that if you are truly dedicated to this you should go for it. The adex dosage seems high. Try .25 eod to start with. It is nice that you have researched all of this on your own. Try to increase the calories a little more than 200 above maintenance. Try at least 800 above maintenance and you will grow very fast man.

Ok I will start at .25 of the arimidex. I didn't want to get to far above maintenance because I want to keep my bf around the same. That's why I felt a smaller surplus would be ideal. I understand I am still young. I just have been stuck at right around 200lbs for a very long time. I tried a long bulk of about 4-5 months at a 600 calorie surplus and I just gained fat to about 15% and decided to drop down and got back to 10%bf and was still hovering right around the 200lb mark at night I around 205-206. in the morning I am like 202.

 

[tury694]

I would skip the quad injection. Do glutes, delts, and pick one more spot. I use pec and it works well, but I have giant muscle tits. If you pin that prop into your quads you will regret it the next day, and walking will suck for a few days.

 

[tury694]

Ok I will start at .25 of the arimidex. I didn't want to get to far above maintenance because I want to keep my bf around the same. That's why I felt a smaller surplus would be ideal.

Wait for one of the diet experts to chime in. I am a little fatter than everyone here as I am set on being a PL. I still think the kcals are low since you will be able to synthesize protein much faster on cycle, but like I said let someone like 3J chime in and guide you a little.

 

[Roush]

He might react well to it. If he chose prop then he better fucking man up and expect some pip. I'm glad this kid did his research even though he is a bit young IMO. A long ester would be better only because of the pip issue.

I'm all about the test prop, for sure-- if you can pin it eod for 12 weeks as a noob,, heck yeah, it's gonna kick in faster and your gonna get more mg for mg the test c-- his 12 weeks running prop would be like running cyp for 16+ weeks

 

[Roush]

I chose test prop because from what I've understood it reacts quicker then test e because of the ester length. I see a lot of people recommend test e for around a 14-15 week cycle and as it being my first cycle wanted to go just 12 weeks and see how that felt. I would be rotating sites. Delts, quads, butt. I assumed I would just get use to it after a week or 2 needles don't bother me so I wasn't to worried about it.

It's not the needles or pinning itself I'm talking about.. It's the injecting of 2 cc in your virgin quad muscle that's gonna get sore as fuck and then you gotta do leg day,, or pinning delt then shoulder day

 

[Hoss_12]

It's not the needles or pinning itself I'm talking about.. It's the injecting of 2 cc in your virgin quad muscle that's gonna get sore as fuck and then you gotta do leg day,, or pinning delt then shoulder day

I wasn't to worried about it. I figure I will adjust and get use to it.

 

[tury694]

I wasn't to worried about it. I figure I will adjust and get use to it.

You won't get used to the quad pip. It will happen every single time. Quads are a no go for me.

 

[Roush]

For me, and halfwit, quads are our favorite go to spot to hit for some reason, in fact quads are the only muscle I do myself (wife injects other spots for me).. Last time I ran prop I would just fill a little 1ml insulin syringe and pop a little 27g on there and inject that way,, I've got hardly any fat on the quads so it don't take much to get to the muscle

 

[Hoss_12]

Does everything look correct or are there things I need to adjust?

 

[brother bundy]

Does everything look correct or are there things I need to adjust?

any reason u wanna use prop over cyp or E? pinning gets old and builds nasty scar tissue ..first cycle u wanna keep shit as simple as u can

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Does everything look correct or are there things I need to adjust?

I'm only going to touch on this once - but you are sure you are happy to live with sub-par testosterone levels for the rest of your life? This isn't really just a "risk" - at 20yr's old your pretty much guaranteed to have lower levels of test for the rest of your life if you cycle now. As to how much lower, well.. that can vary.. but you won't ever feel the "same," I can assure you. I know because I made that mistake when I was too young, and now I can't go back. But if your prepared to live with the consequences it's your choice...

Onto your cycle. Looks fine and well set up. But the dietary intake your proposing is making your cycle pretty much pointless. If your not eating enough you won't grow. On that, I can see you putting on a couple lbs of LBM. Is that really worth the permanent damage??? Lol.

You need to be at a 500cal surplus. 1.5g/lb of protein. Keep your diet in check and you won't get that much fatter - with the higher protein+caloric intake you should be gaining muscle roughly as fast as fat. Should keep you roughly the same bf%.

Also, run hCG up til 2-3 days before PCT.


Good luck.

 

[Roush]

Does everything look correct or are there things I need to adjust?

Your AI dosage may be slightly on the high side,, drop,to .25 mg eod.. You don't wanna crash e2 right out the gate,, then get bloods done 4 weeks out and adjust accordingly

 

[halfwit]

I'm only going to touch on this once - but you are sure you are happy to live with sub-par testosterone levels for the rest of your life? This isn't really just a "risk" - at 20yr's old your pretty much guaranteed to have lower levels of test for the rest of your life if you cycle now. As to how much lower, well.. that can vary.. but you won't ever feel the "same," I can assure you. I know because I made that mistake when I was too young, and now I can't go back. But if your prepared to live with the consequences it's your choice...

Onto your cycle. Looks fine and well set up. But the dietary intake your proposing is making your cycle pretty much pointless. If your not eating enough you won't grow. On that, I can see you putting on a couple lbs of LBM. Is that really worth the permanent damage??? Lol.

You need to be at a 500cal surplus. 1.5g/lb of protein. Keep your diet in check and you won't get that much fatter - with the higher protein+caloric intake you should be gaining muscle roughly as fast as fat. Should keep you roughly the same bf%.

Also, run hCG up til 2-3 days before PCT.


Good luck.

I'm going to have to second this. There's a HUGE difference between emotional/intellectual maturity and physiological maturity. With few exceptions 20 is 20 is 20. I do realize that the vast majority of the time we tell young folks to stay away from AAS, they will regardless - however I also feel it's our responsibility to make sure the young bucks know what they're getting into.

I can't blame the guys for giving you advice OP, they're good guys and want you to do things right. I just think that some serious inflection should happen here before any needles break skin.

My .02c

 

[Hoss_12]

Prince I totally understand your take on the diet and I will adjust and hit a high caloric intake. On the side of damaging test levels. There is a risk of that no matter what age you cycle at. I'm wondering what the main concerns are for a 20 year old that wouldn't apply to everyone? Is it the effect on the brain and mental development? Because physically I don't believe im going to grow any more or anything.

Halfwit what is the physiological maturity that you speak of? Could you elaborate on this at all and the dangers involved thank you.

I take what you both are saying seriously and won't jump into this without being completely sure. that's why I have taken so much time already to research and know everything I can so I do it correctly. I appreciate the advice a lot and will think about the long term effects. With damaging natural test levels weather I cycle now or in 5 years there will still be the same risk that I won't recover completely... Isn't that something you have to deal with when you decide to use aas?

 

[halfwit]

Prince I totally understand your take on the diet and I will adjust and hit a high caloric intake. On the side of damaging test levels. There is a risk of that no matter what age you cycle at. I'm wondering what the main concerns are for a 20 year old that wouldn't apply to everyone? Is it the effect on the brain and mental development? Because physically I don't believe im going to grow any more or anything.

Halfwit what is the physiological maturity that you speak of? Could you elaborate on this at all and the dangers involved thank you.

I take what you both are saying seriously and won't jump into this without being completely sure. that's why I have taken so much time already to research and know everything I can so I do it correctly. I appreciate the advice a lot and will think about the long term effects. With damaging natural test levels weather I cycle now or in 5 years there will still be the same risk that I won't recover completely... Isn't that something you have to deal with when you decide to use aas?

Physiological maturity as in your body has not completed adolescence yet. Two glands in your brain are still developing up to about the age of 23-25. These glands, the hypothalamus and pituitary gland are two chief components involved in the production of testosterone as well as many other hormones. What makes it different between you and say me (pushing 40) is my pituitary has finished making all the changes necessary as per my DNA's instructions.

AAS turns these two glands off, which for you is still at a critical time of development. Unfortunately, there are several chemical exchanges occur during this suppression, which may prevent full development permanently. There are also several other changes in the body that are signaled by a spike in estradiol; like the closing of epiphyseal plates, which stops growth of the skeleton. Note: We don't just get taller, we also grow broader as we finish puberty.

The list of chemical exchanges that occurs during the final stages could easily take up several pages, but the one that is easy to recognize is dopamine uptake. Your brain uses dopamine as a reward stimulus, and as you finish developing, your "flood gates" for this hormone (for the lack of a better word) "tighten up" - giving less hormone for risky behavior as a means of ensuring survival. AAS use while this is going on can really mess with your reward system in your brain, enabling you to do things for a mental-lollipop that you wouldn't normally do. Ever seen the young guys doing REALLY stupid shit for laughs? Yeah, it's funny at 17 - not so much at 30.

I'd love to provide you more examples, but as it is I'm going off memory and really don't want to start spewing opinion over fact. All of this is easily searchable online - which I'm sure someone that graduated college in 3 years should have no issue doing. (Not a knock on you, just stating fact. )