Week 5 test cyp

[Pantalones]

5 weeks into 200 mg a week of test cyp, reasons as to why I haven't noticed anything strength or weight wise?

 

[Die$eL~Man]

your not taking enough . Go to 500mgs per week. if that dont work its beat

 

[fame2002]

U should def be feeling something, even at 200 mgs.

 

[Pantalones]

500 is nuts for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) purposes, even 200 is a little high compared to what most docs will give. I'm wondering why the scales won't budge and I don't feel like I'm running high. Blood work came back TT: 1,300 ng/dL and free T 32 ng/dL so I don't understand. What could be wrong? I've considered the possibility that running high in the past messed with my thyroid and now I'm either hypo or hyper and that's making it difficult for me to put on mass.

 

[fame2002]

Dude if your tt came back at 1300 it's def working. There are a lot of guys taking higher doses on trt. Bump it to 300 and see how u feel. I mean if you're doing testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) you're not gonna get gains like on cycle, it's for getting your body close to its natural levels, good energy, better mood, better sex drive ect. If u have these things but want bigger gains then u need to go to 500.

 

[newtohrt]

Right there with you

500 is nuts for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) purposes, even 200 is a little high compared to what most docs will give. I'm wondering why the scales won't budge and I don't feel like I'm running high. Blood work came back TT: 1,300 ng/dL and free T 32 ng/dL so I don't understand. What could be wrong? I've considered the possibility that running high in the past messed with my thyroid and now I'm either hypo or hyper and that's making it difficult for me to put on mass.

I have been on HRT for 10 months and it never kicked in for me, either. I found out that I have low SHBG, which means that when I try to up my dose of T, nothing good comes of it. This is totally diffeent from Estrogen levels or total T levels, as I have been great with those all along. According to my blood work (except for the low SHBG) I should feel ike superman....But I don't feel much of anything.

I am tapering down now and may stop HRT altogether in another month. I hope you have better luck, man!

 

[Pantalones]

I have been on HRT for 10 months and it never kicked in for me, either. I found out that I have low SHBG, which means that when I try to up my dose of T, nothing good comes of it. This is totally diffeent from Estrogen levels or total T levels, as I have been great with those all along. According to my blood work (except for the low SHBG) I should feel ike superman....But I don't feel much of anything.

I am tapering down now and may stop HRT altogether in another month. I hope you have better luck, man!

Hold up, what does low SHBG have to do with anything negative? Doesn't that mean you'd have more free T and as long as E2 is under control you should be feeling great, right? Were you making gains? How big were you to start with? You're trying a restart? 20 questions lol.

 

[RedLang]

5 weeks into 200 mg a week of test cyp, reasons as to why I haven't noticed anything strength or weight wise?

If thats you in your avatar your a tank already.
If your not gaining weight or strength i would say 99% sure your diet. Diet is 70% of te battle, with 30% training.

 

[newtohrt]

Hold up, what does low SHBG have to do with anything negative? Doesn't that mean you'd have more free T and as long as E2 is under control you should be feeling great, right? Were you making gains? How big were you to start with? You're trying a restart? 20 questions lol.

It sounds great on paper, right? With low SHBG you have a TON of free Testosterone - But as I have learned, its all about the ratio of SHBG to free T. Too high is not good, too low is not good. There is a lot of good info at this link: Paper: Male PCOS, Low SHBG & their genetic components

and this link: http://thinksteroids.com/forum/mens...one-replacement-therapy-men-134237140-11.html


I have had low to no libido and no gains in the gym on 200 mg of T a week (100 E3D) and I even took a month where I went to 400 a week with no change. I am now tapering down to try to get the ratio of SHBG to free T to a better space. We'll see. The thing is my SHBG, while low, is techinically in range (at the bottom) so I doubt that any doctor will be willing or able to look at it.

 

[Pantalones]

If thats you in your avatar your a tank already.
If your not gaining weight or strength i would say 99% sure your diet. Diet is 70% of te battle, with 30% training.

You think I'm not eating enough? I was 175ish in the avatar, I'm like 163ish now..

 

[I > U]

[ I have been great with those all along. According to my blood work (except for the low SHBG)

Shbg binds test and keeps it local. It's good to have that number low. Do some research. All shbg usually does is bind test so it stays close to nuts to make sperm. If its bound to shbg, then it can't be free to act on other tissue...

 

[Pantalones]

It sounds great on paper, right? With low SHBG you have a TON of free Testosterone - But as I have learned, its all about the ratio of SHBG to free T. Too high is not good, too low is not good. There is a lot of good info at this link: Paper: Male PCOS, Low SHBG & their genetic components

and this link: TRT in men with low SHBG - Page 11


I have had low to no libido and no gains in the gym on 200 mg of T a week (100 E3D) and I even took a month where I went to 400 a week with no change. I am now tapering down to try to get the ratio of SHBG to free T to a better space. We'll see. The thing is my SHBG, while low, is techinically in range (at the bottom) so I doubt that any doctor will be willing or able to look at it.

The more I learn about injections, the more I hate them. You're certain it boils down to your SHBG? On the premise that not enough leads to too much free t which converts to too much estrogen and DHT? My SHBG can't be that out of range if my free T is 32 (9-26) right?

How would you interrpret my labs on androgel about a year ago:
1,292 ng/dL (285-950)

Free T- 289 pg/mL
SHBG-40 nmol/L 0-80
Estradiol 47.8 pg/mL (3-35)

E2 was high all the while, but I made huge gains. SHBG looks okay. Does that mean I don't have a problem now?

 

[newtohrt]

I don't necessarily think SHBG is an issue for you, I just brought it up as an example as guys with low SHBG often don't get anything, or much of anyting out of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). My last labs (taken one day after pinning 100mgs of T)

Total T: 1667
Free T: 570.1
SHBG: 17
E2: 34

Everyting else, T3, T4, etc is in-spec and my labs have always looked like this - And yet, I have no libido, make no gains in the gym, etc while eating 180-200 grams of protein a day, eating mostly clean and not smoking or drinking and exercising 6 days a week. I guess my point here is simply that everyone is different and what would make one guy feel like superman might do nothing for the next guy.

 

[Pantalones]

But you know where I'm coming from when I think to myself.."hmm..isn't testosterone testosterone?." If my numbers are great, my diet clean, my workouts intense I'm left pointing my fingers at what ever is left. For me at this point its either my thyroid or E2 is really out of control. Either way I won't know until the 23rd of this month. I've even gone as far as to think I've just become insensitive to testosterone..which is ridiculous..

 

[RedLang]

UP your calories bud. If you are not gaining weight by this stage your not human. Even up them by 1000 cals. Ensure your protein is in check and give it 2-3 weeks and i bet you will gain weight. Everyones metabolism is difference. Your testosterone is fine and your bloods are fine. Estro will only make you bloat a little. Eat more and dont overtrain! 4-5 days a week, 45-60 mins in the gym is enough to grow.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

The more I learn about injections, the more I hate them. You're certain it boils down to your SHBG? On the premise that not enough leads to too much free t which converts to too much estrogen and DHT? My SHBG can't be that out of range if my free T is 32 (9-26) right?

How would you interrpret my labs on androgel about a year ago:
1,292 ng/dL (285-950)

Free T- 289 pg/mL
SHBG-40 nmol/L 0-80
Estradiol 47.8 pg/mL (3-35)

E2 was high all the while, but I made huge gains. SHBG looks okay. Does that mean I don't have a problem now?

Well the logic would be that since the SHBG is low, and it is the carrier protein, there is not enough to carry the testosterone to its target tissues. It def makes sense but there is little if anything out there on it that fixes it directly. With SHBG low, or very low in comparison to the TT level, insulin resistant symptoms can and will occur. He needs a more optimal balance and I think he should check for adrenal fatigue, since i believe thats the last missing thing that wasn't tested for.

Here is Dr. Marianco on the subject, he is not one of our doctors buts has written some very interesting things.

The most common cause of low SHBG is excessive insulin - i.e. insulin resistance. Insulin resistance in turn leads to a cascade of events which results other hormone imbalances such as low testosterone production, suboptimal thyroid hormone activity, adrenal fatigue, etc.

Factors which together in a balance determine SHBG are:
1. Anabolic hormones generally reduce SHBG. These include testosterone, DHEA, insulin, DHT, and growth hormone.
2. Thyroid hormone, Estrogens, and Progesterone (by increasing estrogen receptors/sensitivity), increase SHBG.

In the absence of insulin resistance, the most common other cause of low SHBG is a very high level of other anabolic hormones - most frequency high testosterone from TRT. Those who use anabolic steroids at high doses often drive their SHBG to near zero.

When total testosterone is between 650 to 1000 ng/dl, and a person still has zero sex drive, I would look for other causes for sexual dysfunction - e.g. other hormone, neurotransmitter, or immune system problems.

Raising SHBG does not necessarily increase the risk for Alzheimer's disease. It is important to keep in mind the factors which lead to the risk of Alzheimer's disease.

Insulin resistance (i.e. excessive insulin levels) causes low SHBG. It also greatly increases the risk of Alzheimer's disease because it results in a higher level of inflammatory cytokine production (Cytokines are the chemical messengers of the immune system). It is the inflammation which is one of the underlying factors which leads to Alzheimer's disease.

SHBG level is most often a signal of the overall status of multiple hormone levels. The balance may give an indication of whether one is in an pro-inflammatory state or anti-inflammatory state - with inflammation leading to disease such as Alzheimer's disease, heart disease, strokes, cancer, etc. Some hormones such as some estrogens and insulin can lead to inflammation leading to illness. And other hormones such as the androgens (except DHT), growth hormone, and thyroid hormone, can lead to an antiinflammatory state, reducing the risk for illness. The balance determines the person's risk for illness.

What estradiol level is best for any individual often needs to be determined by trial and error. It is unique for each individual. Most do best around 30 pg/ml. But some do best at lower and higher levels. For example, I have a 65 y.o. patient with a total testosterone of 840 ng/dl and an estradiol of 47 pg/ml. He's having the time of his life - able to make love numerous times each night - after more than a decade of having no sex. The estradiol level works for him without side effects. Some may do better with much loser levels of estradiol - the response is highly individualistic.

Even with low SHBG - which is difficult to correct since it depends on the balance of so many hormones - when the other hormones and neurotransmitters are optimized, sex drive and the ability to have an erection can often return.

When total testosterone is supraphysiologic - i.e. over 1000 ng/dl - problems with libido and erections may occur. Testosterone increases dopamine in the brain in order to increase sex drive, reduce depression, give pleasure to activities. The problem is that dopamine is a very fragile neurotransmitter/hormone in its effects. Too high a dopamine level can cause tolerance to dopamine. This is similar to how one can develop tolerance to drugs such as cocaine and amphetamines which increase dopamine levels in the brain to cause their high. This can lead to the loss of libido when high testosterone levels are maintained for long periods of time.

Conversely, when one is deprived of testosterone (and hence dopamine) for long periods of time due to hypogonadism, one can get a high during the first few weeks of testosterone treatment since the brain becomes supersensitive to dopamine when it has been deprived of it (e.g. making more dopamine receptors to pick up the weaker dopamine signals). Unfortunately, as the brain then gets use to the higher dopamine levels, it will develop some tolerance, and libido will drop off - though we often wish that hopefully a good amount remains.

 

[TheChosenOne]

What's your age? Height? Weight? Body fat %? Basically your injecting the amount of test that a normal 19-22 year old male makes naturally. You can't expect to make any gains beyond that. With that being said, I was a lean beast at 19-20yr old. Not quite as strong as I am now, but man was I cut as fuck.

 

[Pantalones]

Well the logic would be that since the SHBG is low, and it is the carrier protein, there is not enough to carry the testosterone to its target tissues. It def makes sense but there is little if anything out there on it that fixes it directly. With SHBG low, or very low in comparison to the TT level, insulin resistant symptoms can and will occur. He needs a more optimal balance and I think he should check for adrenal fatigue, since i believe thats the last missing thing that wasn't tested for.

Here is Dr. Marianco on the subject, he is not one of our doctors buts has written some very interesting things.

I don't even know if my SHBG is low yet..but as far as insulin goes, I've always been extremely sensitive to insulin. To the point of what you could call hypoglycemia at times. My BS after eating a decent sized meal is always back down to 80 within thirty minutes. I guess I need to get SHBG tested though?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

[ I have been great with those all along. According to my blood work (except for the low SHBG)

Shbg binds test and keeps it local. It's good to have that number low. Do some research. All shbg usually does is bind test so it stays close to nuts to make sperm. If its bound to shbg, then it can't be free to act on other tissue...

sorry OP, I was responding to this ^^^

your numbers are fine

 

[Pantalones]

Its fine lol, but the verdict is low SHBG is bad, and that the reason I haven't seen results is I need to up the calories?