Weird cycle.. your thoughts?

[rippedcb]

So i'm of the thinking that the best cycles include all 3 families.. but it's not always feasible. I also agree with most people that test should be included in all cycles, but i disagree that test should be the base of every cycle. I think one can achieve good gains without test as long as we don't fall into low-test catabolic state.. which could be achieved with low dose of exogenous test. So here is my 12 week cycle (and i know most will disagree) but i would appreciate critical feedback. I plan on using these 5 hormones:
Boldenone (test derived)
Nandrolone (19-nor based)
MDHT or Proviron (DHT based)
D-bol kick start (test based)
Test for TRT

Front load boldenone 900mg
front load nandrolone 800mg

Week 1-4:
D-bol 30mg

week 1-12
Boldenone 600mg
Nandrolone 400mg
Test 250mg

Week 8-12:
MDHT 50mg or Proviron 100mg

Anti-E's:
Aromasin: Week 1-4
Clomid: Week 4-12

Liver care: Liv52
PCT following the cycle

reason for not continuing Aromasin throughout the cycle is that i feel a bit of aromatization is good, but 600mg eq and 250mg test may aromatize too much? would you do Aromasin throughout?

 

[tbonexl]

I would do a bit more research. You don't seem to have a grasp on the fundamentals...

 

[rippedcb]

I would do a bit more research. You don't seem to have a grasp on the fundamentals...

Thanks for your feedback. Do you want to provide a bit of reasoning why you don't agree with what i've posted or what you would do differently?
thanks

 

[halfwit]

I'm going to borrow an AWESOME analogy from Megatron28 as you made sure to include what each hormone is a derivative of. Both gasoline and plastics are derived from petroleum, yet one makes your car go vroooom, and the other would give you quite the bill at the mechanic. (Yeah, paraphrased. )

While I DO think that having a balance of the three main AAS sub-types does give some fantastic synergy (19-nor, testosterone, DHT derivatives) as they each have a different benefit, focusing on this can side track things if the goal doesn't necessarily match the tools used.

Testosterone is and always will be the base of all cycles. This can't be disputed or worked around. This is medical fact. Your TRT-sized dose of test still keeps to this fundamental fact, so I have zero issues with that aspect of your proposed cycle.

My question for you is why boldenone? Are you bulking and require assistance with your appetite? EQ is a rather weak anabolic agent, and outside the appetite benefits, is mostly known for slow, but steady gains. As boldenone is typically paired with the undecyclinate ester, 12 weeks is a rather short time to run it as well.

Proviron is a fantastic ancillary oral, but there's really not much of a point in where you have it placed, or the limited amount of time you're planning on running it. Proviron is one of the only orals that's NOT methylated, which means that it has a minimal impact on the liver. As the main purpose of the hormone is to take advantage of how it binds with affinity over estradiol to receptor sites and SHBG to test, which improves free testosterone and has a minor impact on estradiol sides (NOT an AI) - four weeks towards the end just doesn't make much sense to me.

Clomid is a SERM, and will do absolutely nothing to help prevent issues with estradiol beyond your chest sprouting little B cups. This is something that aromasin (aromatase inhibitor) is designed to do, and it should be run IF it is needed. For most bigger cycles, this is a must, however, this is why a blood test before the cycle (you want to know where you started from) and four to six weeks into the cycle. If you're taking a low dose of test, and you're not converting the nandrolone to estradiol in great amounts, you may not even need it.

However, if you simply guess, and skip the AI - nandrolone will take full advantage of a high estradiol environment - making your dick softer than ice cream on a hot day. I've been there, have the great experience of trying to FORCE the rope that used to resemble my penis into the glory hole, and learned this one the hard way. Don't repeat my mistake. Trust me on this.

So, back to the line of questions; what exactly are you looking to get out of this? How many cycles do you have under your belt, and how long have you been training for? The answers to these will help folks give more detailed recommendations, as we're really guessing at this point.

My .02c

 

[tbonexl]

Frontloading isn't going to work the way you think it will either. Better off just sticking to your weekly dose and extending it to benefit from the long ester...

 

[rippedcb]

I'm going to borrow an AWESOME analogy from Megatron28 as you made sure to include what each hormone is a derivative of. Both gasoline and plastics are derived from petroleum, yet one makes your car go vroooom, and the other would give you quite the bill at the mechanic. (Yeah, paraphrased. )

While I DO think that having a balance of the three main AAS sub-types does give some fantastic synergy (19-nor, testosterone, DHT derivatives) as they each have a different benefit, focusing on this can side track things if the goal doesn't necessarily match the tools used.

Testosterone is and always will be the base of all cycles. This can't be disputed or worked around. This is medical fact. Your TRT-sized dose of test still keeps to this fundamental fact, so I have zero issues with that aspect of your proposed cycle.

My question for you is why boldenone? Are you bulking and require assistance with your appetite? EQ is a rather weak anabolic agent, and outside the appetite benefits, is mostly known for slow, but steady gains. As boldenone is typically paired with the undecyclinate ester, 12 weeks is a rather short time to run it as well.

Proviron is a fantastic ancillary oral, but there's really not much of a point in where you have it placed, or the limited amount of time you're planning on running it. Proviron is one of the only orals that's NOT methylated, which means that it has a minimal impact on the liver. As the main purpose of the hormone is to take advantage of how it binds with affinity over estradiol to receptor sites and SHBG to test, which improves free testosterone and has a minor impact on estradiol sides (NOT an AI) - four weeks towards the end just doesn't make much sense to me.

Clomid is a SERM, and will do absolutely nothing to help prevent issues with estradiol beyond your chest sprouting little B cups. This is something that aromasin (aromatase inhibitor) is designed to do, and it should be run IF it is needed. For most bigger cycles, this is a must, however, this is why a blood test before the cycle (you want to know where you started from) and four to six weeks into the cycle. If you're taking a low dose of test, and you're not converting the nandrolone to estradiol in great amounts, you may not even need it.

However, if you simply guess, and skip the AI - nandrolone will take full advantage of a high estradiol environment - making your dick softer than ice cream on a hot day. I've been there, have the great experience of trying to FORCE the rope that used to resemble my penis into the glory hole, and learned this one the hard way. Don't repeat my mistake. Trust me on this.

So, back to the line of questions; what exactly are you looking to get out of this? How many cycles do you have under your belt, and how long have you been training for? The answers to these will help folks give more detailed recommendations, as we're really guessing at this point.

My .02c

Fantastic feedback.. Thank you! This is what i call constrictive feedback. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

I'm in my late 30's. Have been away from the scene for about last 7 yrs (thus small doses) but i have tried most of the chemicals out there and have 10+ cycles under my belt. I've been back to the gym about a yr clean and now it's time for some help. The goals from this cycle are modest gains. I want to gain maximum 10lbs with this cycle.

To answer your questions.. the reason for Boldenone is exactly what you mentioned: Appetitie+rbc increase to help with endurance and the fact that i've always felt amazing on EQ. I've done boldenone/nandrolone cycles before with awesome results. Most people think to use either/or one of these hormones and think they are one in the same. I disagree with you that boldenone is a "weak" anabolic. I think in right doses it does it's job granted you have reasonable goals. yes, it takes much higher doses than nanadrolone or other hormones but i find it fantastic. But frontloading EQ has made all the difference for me in the past and allowed me to shorten the cycle's length. I feel anyone not front loading EQ is wasting first 3 weeks of their cycle.

As for Proviron or MDHT toward the end is not to use it for anti-e properties but rather its androgenic and SHBG properties alone. This is where i was struggling and thus i asked questions. I could simply do a bulk cycle and then do test/masteron cutting cycle afterwords.. but just can't include another injectable in this cycle. I have tons of both. As for proviron, i would probably continue it after the cycle throughout the PCT (i know, again a controversial subject) but Proviron also does wonders for my mental health and i just simply love this hormone and have used it previously for bridging. Would you recommend using proviron for the whole cycle? Obviously MDHT i can't being a C17AA.. thus the reason for last 4 weeks giving the liver a brief break in between the two C17AA's. But you are right, using proviron thruout instead of MDHT makes much more sense.

Clomid: i understand its not an AI and just a SERM.. that's exactly why i wanted to use it. Considering i have Aromasin and being a suicidal AI.. i don't want complete shut down of aromatization. I feel some aromatization is needed in a cycle. was simply wondering the amount of eq i will be using.. is that too much aromatizaion? (i know nandrolone won't) Considering Aromasin's half life is around 24hrs.. i could schedule the dose so that there is some aromatization in between doses.. that was the other option, but just not sure i'll need it as EQ is only a modest aromatizer.. and considering i'm allowing some aromatization.. thus using SERM. But you are right, i didn't think of the effects of nandrolone along with allowing some estrodials to float around. So i'm guessing using AI should be must.

Thank you for your feedback. It makes all the sense. I will use AI throughout the cycle and use Proviron throughout the cycle instead of MDHT.

 

[rippedcb]

Frontloading isn't going to work the way you think it will either. Better off just sticking to your weekly dose and extending it to benefit from the long ester...

Respectfully... i disagree with this comment. Frontloading with EQ is a must and allows for a shortER duration of the cycle. Note, i'm still doing a 12 week cycle and not a 8 weeker.

 

[halfwit]

Fair enough on the EQ. I asked as I rarely see folks with that actual need, but they were sold the hormone through deception by their dealer instead.

1. Yes, I would run the proviron through the entire cycle, but NOT through PCT as it is a suppressive hormone, which defeats the purpose of a PCT.

2. I think there's a misconception about how aromatase inhibitors work. Yes, aromasin is suicidal, however that doesn't mean that any dose of the chemical will drop your estradiol to zero. The suicidal properties just mean that it binds permanently, so when it's ceased, there isn't any rebound effect. This is why I recommend getting a blood test, as finding a dose that fits can (and should) be stuck with up to PCT.

I can't say I would use a SERM unless you're EXTREMELY sensitive to estradiol, and gyno is a constant threat as SERMs bring their own side effects to the party, which some guys just can't tolerate.

3. You have it backwards; nandrolone is the aromatizable hormone, while boldenone does not. I would start small with the AI and spend the fifty to seventy bucks in a month to verify. 12.5mg ED is the standard for typical cycles, but you could probably try EOD or 6mg ED and see how that goes.

 

[rippedcb]

Fair enough on the EQ. I asked as I rarely see folks with that actual need, but they were sold the hormone through deception by their dealer instead.

1. Yes, I would run the proviron through the entire cycle, but NOT through PCT as it is a suppressive hormone, which defeats the purpose of a PCT.

A lot of conflicting reports on that.. many studies i've read suggest it's not suppressive at all up the the dosage of 150mg ED. That's why i said it will be controversial . I knew most wouldn't agree with me on this. Many people i knew in the past (yes, a long time ago) used it only during PCT and i've used it in the past during PCT. But i'll def take your advice and use it through my entire cycle.. makes complete sense.

2. I think there's a misconception about how aromatase inhibitors work. Yes, aromasin is suicidal, however that doesn't mean that any dose of the chemical will drop your estradiol to zero. The suicidal properties just mean that it binds permanently, so when it's ceased, there isn't any rebound effect. This is why I recommend getting a blood test, as finding a dose that fits can (and should) be stuck with up to PCT.

Agreed.. and i knew that

I can't say I would use a SERM unless you're EXTREMELY sensitive to estradiol, and gyno is a constant threat as SERMs bring their own side effects to the party, which some guys just can't tolerate.

Agreed.. since i'll be using an AI, i won't need to use a SERM

3. You have it backwards; nandrolone is the aromatizable hormone, while boldenone does not. I would start small with the AI and spend the fifty to seventy bucks in a month to verify. 12.5mg ED is the standard for typical cycles, but you could probably try EOD or 6mg ED and see how that goes.

agreed with the dosage of Aromasin.. i've always used 12.5 ED.. but i'll do half the dose as you suggested.
As for aromatizing... ummm...
*********

As far as i understand.. and i'm not challenging you on this. EQ willl aromatize at around 50% of the rate of Testosterone, whereas Nandrolone CAN aromatize but it's usually at negligible rates and at the low dose i'm using it at (400mg) it shouldn't be of a concern. I'd be more worried about the prolactin related sides from Nandrolone then Estrodial related. Pls advice if you have different experience? In my experience and research gyno related sides from Nandrolone come from prolactin and not estrodials.

Again, thanks Halfwit.. i appreciate your input.

 

[rippedcb]

hmm.. i posted a whole reply to you halfwit but it seems to have disappeared :S

 

[Megatron28]

A lot of conflicting reports on that.. many studies i've read suggest it's not suppressive at all up the the dosage of 150mg ED. That's why i said it will be controversial . I knew most wouldn't agree with me on this. Many people i knew in the past (yes, a long time ago) used it only during PCT and i've used it in the past during PCT. But i'll def take your advice and use it through my entire cycle.. makes complete sense.



Agreed.. and i knew that



Agreed.. since i'll be using an AI, i won't need to use a SERM


agreed with the dosage of Aromasin.. i've always used 12.5 ED.. but i'll do half the dose as you suggested.
As for aromatizing... ummm...
*********

As far as i understand.. and i'm not challenging you on this. EQ willl aromatize at around 50% of the rate of Testosterone, whereas Nandrolone CAN aromatize but it's usually at negligible rates and at the low dose i'm using it at (400mg) it shouldn't be of a concern. I'd be more worried about the prolactin related sides from Nandrolone then Estrodial related. Pls advice if you have different experience? In my experience and research gyno related sides from Nandrolone come from prolactin and not estrodials.

Again, thanks Halfwit.. i appreciate your input.

Nandrolone aromatizes.

I would not use AAS during PCT either. I wouldn't want to suppress the HPTA in the slightest while trying to restart it.

 

[halfwit]

hmm.. i posted a whole reply to you halfwit but it seems to have disappeared :S

It happens to the best of us.

 

[rippedcb]

Thanks guys, i appreciate everyone's input. Discussion was informative and just what i needed. I posted external link (didn't know it wasn't allowed, sorry) that showed Boldenone aromatizes as well.. I know its a weird cycle.. thus the title thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions Halfwit and thanks for your input Megatron.. i will take your guys' advice.