which AAS gains are retainable After PCT?

[fitguy22]

so iv been on this forum for a while, once i signed up thats when i started to learn about AAS and this forum has helped me A LOT on my knowledge in AAS but there are some things I'm still unsure of. When we do a cycle we tend to eat more ,sleep more and train harder then usual then running a pct which results in some loss of muscle/water gained and from what iv been reading most people lose the gains they make after 3 months 4 months, so my question to everyone is; do you think its because they get lazy and get off track from their diet or is that the usual affect of AAS once u come off? which AAS gains are retainable even after 5-6 months of 1000+ calories (above how much you actually need) and good diet? thanks

 

[MBB]

My understanding is that you'll only lose the gains that are past your genetic potential, so if you train, eat and sleep right and haven't reached your genetic potential, theoretically you should be able to maintain a good majority of the LMM.

 

[Protobuilder69]

none.
You will lose everything once you're completely off the cycle, most people take other drugs like gh, peptides and say im off "steroids" and im keeping my gains, or those who increase calories by alot as you mentioned and gain ton of fat and lose the muscle while off and claim they didnt lose anything because they weigh the same, while they lost muscle and gained bodyfat.

Th only way i believe you can keep some steroid gains is if you're "on" for a long long time (8+ yrs) so the muscle had time to be build up, and come off while training hard and eating right, there was a study showed powerlifters kept some of the muscle gains while they were off.

 

[China_Wall]

even with the best pct protocol, then continuing with a great diet and training routine... expect to retain no more than 30% of what you gained while on cycle

 

[Teutonic]

(2tonic still reeeeling from his lame ass source thread wades in......)........see Cw s post

 

[Black Beard]

The only way you would retain anything near your maximum genetic potential is if your HPTA came back 100% which is very rare. Most of the time, endogenous hormones are working against you during and after pct. Your stuff is struggling to get turn back on, low testosterone and high estradiol is not an optimal state for staying lean and muscular.

 

[fitguy22]

im not trying to get a source teutonic,lol. don't worry. I'm just trying to get some info , i mean iv searched on this and got the answer but then again there are so many experienced guys here who might of tried something different and that may of worked for them.

there must be another way otherwise whats the point of AAS if its temporary? lol
Ps; Im just trying to start a discussion, not offending anyone.

 

[China_Wall]

im not trying to get a source teutonic,lol. don't worry. I'm just trying to get some info , i mean iv searched on this and got the answer but then again there are so many experienced guys here who might of tried something different and that may of worked for them.

there must be another way otherwise whats the point of AAS if its temporary? lol
Ps; Im just trying to start a discussion, not offending anyone.

to put it in more simple terms... the pros never come off, ever... if they could come off, have a rest and still maintain what they work so hard to keep, they would... let's not try reinventing the wheel bro

if you can keep even 10% of what you gain from a cycle, that's 10% more than you had when you started... and the experience to go with it

 

[fitguy22]

to put it in more simple terms... the pros never come off, ever... if they could come off, have a rest and still maintain what they work so hard to keep, they would... let's not try reinventing the wheel bro

if you can keep even 10% of what you gain from a cycle, that's 10% more than you had when you started... and the experience to go with it

yeah, i guess it makes sense.
what about EQ and anavar gains? iv read that those gains are somewhat kept after pct, what do u think about those?

 

[China_Wall]

yeah, i guess it makes sense.
what about EQ and anavar gains? iv read that those gains are somewhat kept after pct, what do u think about those?

nope

 

[Black Beard]

yeah, i guess it makes sense.
what about EQ and anavar gains? iv read that those gains are somewhat kept after pct, what do u think about those?

That's definitely a myth. One of many. That's why a lot of people blast and cruise. Look at Kevin Levrone, outstanding athlete and bodybuilder. He shrunk after he retired. Still looks great, but he's probably on a good TRT dose. We are talking about the best genetics possible here. The fact is, with a cycle, you go from having superman levels of androgens to almost nothing. I see a lot of guys just blow up fat struggling to keep their steroid gains. That's why most people don't understand why we warn so often to make sure you are ready for the ups and downs. People think they are going to get swole and stay that way and everything will be perfect. It's not that simple. If you have a very solid base of natural lifting and good nutrition, your chances of success are much much higher than some noob 17 year old on an anavar only cycle. What i recommend to anyone who asks me about steroids is this; MAX your natural gains, that takes years and lots of good knowledge. If you are not satisfied with the natural human physiological muscular limitation, then turn to exogenous hormone supplementation. Anything less is suboptimal. To me, gear is best used as a limit breaker on muscle growth. Not a shortcut like most people use it as, but hey, to each their own.

 

[hölderlin]

This is a bummer. I was under the impression you could keep most of it if you PCT'd right.

But I guess if I can permanently clean bulk on 30% of what I had on cycle it's still good. Does HGH help you keep the gains?

 

[Chicago712]

yeah, i guess it makes sense.
what about EQ and anavar gains? iv read that those gains are somewhat kept after pct, what do u think about those?

EQ and Anavar are both very anabolic compounds and these will not cause water retention.. these are quality steroids.... I've been doing a lot of research on stuff like this... wayy to indepth to get off topic with in a thread like this...


but both Anavar and EQ gains would be dry, so if your talking about losing all the water once your levels go back to normal.. ideally EQ and anavar would have little to no water - diet dependent that is

 

[Chicago712]

This is a bummer. I was under the impression you could keep most of it if you PCT'd right.

But I guess if I can permanently clean bulk on 30% of what I had on cycle it's still good. Does HGH help you keep the gains?

Also GH will not really help you keep gains but what it will do -- this is very dose dependent and won't be done on 2iu's per day but GH promotes cell mitosis which is when cells split apart and become 2 and then 4 and so on... soo it actually builds new cells so instead of where steroids help get nutrients into the cell via nitrogen retention etc, gh will help create new cells...

but then if you compete you always want to consider not running growth all the way up until the show because... lets say you've ran growth at a high enough dosage for a year and you're body has created numerous new muscle cells .. but these cells haven't had enough time to mature and grow you're going to be getting on stage with muscles that aren't as conditioned as if the cells had time to mature--- more of my crazy thinking but all of it is backed up by studies

 

[FlyMolo]

none.
You will lose everything once you're completely off the cycle, most people take other drugs like gh, peptides and say im off "steroids" and im keeping my gains, or those who increase calories by alot as you mentioned and gain ton of fat and lose the muscle while off and claim they didnt lose anything because they weigh the same, while they lost muscle and gained bodyfat.

Th only way i believe you can keep some steroid gains is if you're "on" for a long long time (8+ yrs) so the muscle had time to be build up, and come off while training hard and eating right, there was a study showed powerlifters kept some of the muscle gains while they were off.

I wholeheartedly disagree. It is so different for each individual that to put blanket statements out like this is very misleading.

Your recovery, diet, genetic potential, level you were at when you began your cycle all factor in. I know too many guys who gave up "bodybuilding" for a recreational weight lifting. They got off because they weren't trying to be super human anymore they just wanted to be fit. Every single one of them looks way better than their pre cycling physiques. Definitely nowhere close to the bodies they had using of course . Not as lean, vascular and nowhere near the mass.

 

[hölderlin]

I wholeheartedly disagree. It is so different for each individual that to put blanket statements out like this is very misleading.

Your recovery, diet, genetic potential, level you were at when you began your cycle all factor in. I know too many guys who gave up "bodybuilding" for a recreational weight lifting. They got off because they weren't trying to be super human anymore they just wanted to be fit. Every single one of them looks way better than their pre cycling physiques. Definitely nowhere close to the bodies they had using of course . Not as lean, vascular and nowhere near the mass.

This is more like what was explained to me before I came here and began absorbing mad knowledge.

 

[hölderlin]

Also GH will not really help you keep gains but what it will do -- this is very dose dependent and won't be done on 2iu's per day but GH promotes cell mitosis which is when cells split apart and become 2 and then 4 and so on... soo it actually builds new cells so instead of where steroids help get nutrients into the cell via nitrogen retention etc, gh will help create new cells...

but then if you compete you always want to consider not running growth all the way up until the show because... lets say you've ran growth at a high enough dosage for a year and you're body has created numerous new muscle cells .. but these cells haven't had enough time to mature and grow you're going to be getting on stage with muscles that aren't as conditioned as if the cells had time to mature--- more of my crazy thinking but all of it is backed up by studies

This is kinda what I had heard. The myth that was passed to me was that "GH gains are permanent .....blah blah", so it sounds like there may be a kernel of truth to this.

Promoting muscle cell division as opposed to just protein synthesis sounds almost like it's adding "natty" potential, on some level. Although I did think that the androgen pathway also up-regulated cell division, maybe just not as much?

Looks like HGH signal pathway is a more wide reaching kinase cascade, whereas the androgen pathway looks to activate more specific transcription factors, which I guess is kinda intuitive. One makes you a monster and the other just gets all of your cells dividing like they were when you were younger.

The more I read the more sense it makes to do HGH with every cycle.

 

[China_Wall]

This is kinda what I had heard. The myth that was passed to me was that "GH gains are permanent .....blah blah", so it sounds like there may be a kernel of truth to this.

Promoting muscle cell division as opposed to just protein synthesis sounds almost like it's adding "natty" potential, on some level. Although I did think that the androgen pathway also up-regulated cell division, maybe just not as much?

Looks like HGH signal pathway is a more wide reaching kinase cascade, whereas the androgen pathway looks to activate more specific transcription factors, which I guess is kinda intuitive. One makes you a monster and the other just gets all of your cells dividing like they were when you were younger.

The more I read the more sense it makes to do HGH with every cycle.

HGH is NOT cycled... it must be run continuously for years, never coming off to be most effective... and not minuscule dosages of 2-4iu per day, I'm talking 8-10iu's or more, unless you're a female

 

[hölderlin]

HGH is NOT cycled... it must be run continuously for years, never coming off to be most effective... and not minuscule dosages of 2-4iu per day, I'm talking 8-10iu's or more, unless you're a female

I'm just learning this. Up till this point I had only heard that you need to be on it longer that a typical cycle, not for years though.

I interpreted this as something like begin taking it 2-3 months before test E cycle and continue 3 months after PCT for a total of just under a year. Is there any point to something like this? At 5ish iu/day? At 35 years old?

I still have alot to read.

 

[China_Wall]

I'm just learning this. Up till this point I had only heard that you need to be on it longer that a typical cycle, not for years though.

I interpreted this as something like begin taking it 2-3 months before test E cycle and continue 3 months after PCT for a total of just under a year. Is there any point to something like this? At 5ish iu/day? At 35 years old?

I still have alot to read.

you can run short or run it long, but just like all compounds, any gains you have made WILL disappear after discontinuing... so with GH, if $ is not a factor, run it forever