Why oral only cycles are better at producing lasting gains and Nolvadex vs. Clomid.

[blawrence1988]

I'm on day 9 of a 6 week 50mg/ed Turinabol Cycle. So far everything is going great.

I decided to use the tbol I***8217;ve had laying around because I always keep more gains during oral only cycles, and because when you think about it in depth adding test to a cycle would lead to more of a loss of gains after because when the exogenous test is dropped your body does not have the resources to maintain that amount of muscle even with "proper" pct. You typically don't run into this problem with a mild oral only cycle consisting of tbol because although your natty test is lowered and replaced in the muscle building process by the synthetic hormone, it isn't completely reliant on it to maintain the muscle you gained while on. This is evident in the fact that your Total Testosterone levels are never higher while on a low androgenic compound like tbol or anavar. But with any test ester your Total T will increase exponentially. Let***8217;s say a SERM you use after a test cycle raises your test to 500ng/dl the 2000ng/dl or so you are now missing after the cycle is what helped you gain the muscle in the first place and your body needs that much test to maintain that muscle. (This could be completely wrong but I've never heard the actual reasoning of why oral only cycles suck) If you have a valid reason...PLEASE SHARE.

Now that I got that off my chest... I want to know if Clomid is more efficient at raising your natty test levels after a cycle than Nolvadex. Every PCT I've ever ran has consisted of Nolva and once Nolva + HCG (dumb I know)...My acne clears up while on cycle for some reason and gets horrible while using Nolva even when I've used it as a standalone just to raise test.

I've heard the bad side effects of Clomid but I've also heard that it restores the ole HPTA faster. However I've also seen the empirical data studies showing Nolva as being far superior to Clomid and Torem.

I would like to know what you guys think about all of this...Sorry for the grammar or lack thereof, I'm writing this before class and gotta go.

 

[bigkit34]

Your wrong bud tbol shuts you down same as test. Oral only are for chicks

 

[TriniJuice]

Just wanna give you heads up on the incoming flame

 

[blawrence1988]

I know but if you read, you'd see that I said when on a low androgenic aas, your test levels aren't raised like while on a test based cycle. Test is what helps you maintain muscle obviously. while on I've heard of peoples TT being anywhere from 1500ng/dl to 3500ng/dl. after a cycle raising your natty test back to 500ng/dl really doesn't help a whole lot as your body needs the TT of 1500-3000ng/dl to maintain that muscle.

 

[justin h]

Why wouldn't you just run test alone..or with your tbol?Why all the contradictions?
You need to keep on reading bud....your gonna here it over and over again.
Oral only cycles are worthless...flat out fking worthless.
Your gonna shut down regardless and need pct...so quit fucking around.

 

[Kazmir]

Its completely flawed though, sure everything has to do with your test levels like you say but the fact is that a low dose tbol cycle will completely shut down your natural production not just lower it. It can be used without killing your natural levels and that is why some people use dbol as a bridge but in that case we are talking 5mg per day. If what your trying to convey is the fact that using a mild tbol dose you are allowing your levels to pretty much stay around the natural levels instead of having high test values like when substituting with test then you need to use your common sense. Think about it for a sec you want to shut yourself down just to bring yourself to natural levels in order to gain from an anabolic.. So basically you want to be the same place as when you weren't using tbol.. Makes zero sense..

 

[DreDay187]

I'm on day 9 of a 6 week 50mg/ed Turinabol Cycle. So far everything is going great.

I decided to use the tbol I***8217;ve had laying around because I always keep more gains during oral only cycles, and because when you think about it in depth adding test to a cycle would lead to more of a loss of gains after because when the exogenous test is dropped your body does not have the resources to maintain that amount of muscle even with "proper" pct. You typically don't run into this problem with a mild oral only cycle consisting of tbol because although your natty test is lowered and replaced in the muscle building process by the synthetic hormone, it isn't completely reliant on it to maintain the muscle you gained while on. This is evident in the fact that your Total Testosterone levels are never higher while on a low androgenic compound like tbol or anavar. But with any test ester your Total T will increase exponentially. Let***8217;s say a SERM you use after a test cycle raises your test to 500ng/dl the 2000ng/dl or so you are now missing after the cycle is what helped you gain the muscle in the first place and your body needs that much test to maintain that muscle. (This could be completely wrong but I've never heard the actual reasoning of why oral only cycles suck) If you have a valid reason...PLEASE SHARE.

Now that I got that off my chest... I want to know if Clomid is more efficient at raising your natty test levels after a cycle than Nolvadex. Every PCT I've ever ran has consisted of Nolva and once Nolva + HCG (dumb I know)...My acne clears up while on cycle for some reason and gets horrible while using Nolva even when I've used it as a standalone just to raise test.

I've heard the bad side effects of Clomid but I've also heard that it restores the ole HPTA faster. However I've also seen the empirical data studies showing Nolva as being far superior to Clomid and Torem.

I would like to know what you guys think about all of this...Sorry for the grammar or lack thereof, I'm writing this before class and gotta go.

Loss of gains is attributed to being last genetic potential and coming off AAS altogether, poor diet, poor training or poor recovery. It has nothing to do with which compound you want to run. Absolutely NONE. Your theory is severely flawed and based of a fallacy to begin wih. The 2000ng/dL in your example isn't required to make the muscle it's reunited to make it in a specific time span. You can most certainly maintain what you've got on reduced plasma levels. For proof look at the pros, they blast and cruise and the cruise maintains what they gain during the blast AT A MUCH SMALLER DOSE AND LOWER SERUM LEVELS.

I urge you to reconsider what you're doing and read and research. It's a fun little theory but it is not based on science or evidence. I promise you that b

 

[DreDay187]

You're also making the preposterous assumption that muscle built with an oral steroid is different than muscle built by an injectable steroid or testosterone. Please explain how muscle is different from muscle? You claim testosterone muscle built will be lost bc of the lack of super high test levels when coming off. What do you think would happen in the same scenario when coming off the oral steroid? You lost the same stimulus that created it in the first place which is your argument against Injectables. Your logic is illogical.

 

[blawrence1988]

Why wouldn't you just run test alone..or with your tbol?Why all the contradictions?
You need to keep on reading bud....your gonna here it over and over again.
Oral only cycles are worthless...flat out fking worthless.
Your gonna shut down regardless and need pct...so quit fucking around.

the thing is I'm not a newbie i've done 3 test based cycles and countless other PEDS...I've just always had longer lasting results with oral only cycles...maybe it's genetics maybe it's not.

 

[blawrence1988]

You're also making the preposterous assumption that muscle built with an oral steroid is different than muscle built by an injectable steroid or testosterone. Please explain how muscle is different from muscle? You claim testosterone muscle built will be lost bc of the lack of super high test levels when coming off. What do you think would happen in the same scenario when coming off the oral steroid? You lost the same stimulus that created it in the first place which is your argument against Injectables. Your logic is illogical.

Well if that assumption is so preposterous...Why does everyone say an oral only cycle is worse than one that includes a test ester?? I AGREE with you if your saying that it is just as easy or difficult to maintain gains after... I was looking for a reason...a concrete reason why oral only "sucks".

 

[308power]

Come on man. You are refusing to accept the information presented to you. There is a sticky on the main page so people dont have to go through this.

No offense to you, but to say this as dumbly as possible for everyone to understand.

You are a male. As a male, you have testosterone. Many of your bodily functions rely on you having testosterone. An oral cycle shuts down the HPTA. You will not produce testosterone anymore while you take this oral compound. This is why many experience lethargy, depression, anxiety on prohormones.

Giving your body more testosterone than it already has makes you feel amazing, is generally far more efficient in terms of gains kept, and generally fucks a lot less shit up.

End of test cycle after hcg blast -> testicles are full size, blood test levels of 5kish ng per dl that tapers down gradually until you reach a physiological range in which you balance out.

End of oral cycle -> no test, small testicles, feel like shit, lose gains.

You can do whatever you want though. Just dont advise others to do the same.

 

[blawrence1988]

Come on man. You are refusing to accept the information presented to you. There is a sticky on the main page so people dont have to go through this.

No offense to you, but to say this as dumbly as possible for everyone to understand.

You are a male. As a male, you have testosterone. Many of your bodily functions rely on you having testosterone. An oral cycle shuts down the HPTA. You will not produce testosterone anymore while you take this oral compound. This is why many experience lethargy, depression, anxiety on prohormones.

Giving your body more testosterone than it already has makes you feel amazing, is generally far more efficient in terms of gains kept, and generally fucks a lot less shit up.

End of test cycle after hcg blast -> testicles are full size, blood test levels of 5kish ng per dl that tapers down gradually until you reach a physiological range in which you balance out.

End of oral cycle -> no test, small testicles, feel like shit, lose gains.

You can do whatever you want though. Just dont advise others to do the same.

Actually this is my first oral only that's not var... I'm starting to feel like shit, just lethargic and lil depressed lol shudda listened.. So know i know one of the real reasons why you run test with it, but one of the main reasons I didnt bother buying a few vials is because I have a terrible reaction to Ethyl Oleate, flu like symptoms for 10 weeks sucked...I havent been able to find a source that knows what their stuff is mixed with...So the only oral only cycle if at all that I would recommend would be var at around 50mg e/d...I guess I'll just finish out the Tbol and live and learn...oh well I kinda like being a guinea pig...

One more question... do any research chem sites still sell HCG?? I bought some online about a year ago but I think the site might have been disbanded...I atleast want to blast some HCG towards the end of the cycle...obvs not during PCT

 

[tbonexl]

I don't think anybody will be taking advice from u anytime soon.