Winabol cycle only. (1st time taking anabolic steroids)

[Zigma]

About me: 5'9", 25, 215lbs.

I've always been a bit on the heavy side, I store fat like a fucking baby seal. Anyway, been working out on and off since I was 19, got depressed and without even realizing it i was 250. I started eating right and working out seriously for the past 3 years. I have not been able to lose anymore body fat or gain a significant amount of strength. I'm not against drugs or anything but always wanted to see how far I could push myself without the assistance of hormones, however, right now I'm at the point of my life were I'm just tired of not seeing positive results. I understand that people don't recommend winabol by itself but I just want to see enough results to keep me motivated, I need that push, if that makes sense.

I will be taking 50mg per day (25mg then 9hrs another 25mg) and have a few questions before i start.

1.- Will be taking Clomid as post cycle therapy (pct). Is this ok or do you guys have any better recommendations? Also, do i take post cycle therapy (pct) after the cycle has completed or during it?

2.- I've read that eating right is extremely important (obviously it is always important but in this case dude to the cycle). I have been doing Paleo for the past 5 months, it's helped maintained my weight without bouncing back. Is this still ok? or should I change eating habits?

3.- Also, for the same period of time, I have doing Wendler's 5/3/1 weight-lifting program to increase my strength. I've been keeping track and it's helped so far. Just want to know if i should keep doing this or not during the cycle.

4.- Cardio before lifting, yay or nay?

5.- feel free to add any extra info you would like. I appreciate constructive criticism and feedback. Thanks in advance for everyone's help.

 

[abusedyam]

dude, oral only cycles are a huge NONO, you can expect limp dick, depression, and loss of all gains,
You need to add test to any oral cycle so you don't get shut down and you can keep the gains.
also clomid and nolva for PCT is good, but you need to read up some more before you are ready to jump on.. do the research before you start and don't mess yourself up.
whatever you do... do NOT do oral only cycle.

 

[Zigma]

dude, oral only cycles are a huge NONO, you can expect limp dick, depression, and loss of all gains,
You need to add test to any oral cycle so you don't get shut down and you can keep the gains.
also clomid and nolva for PCT is good, but you need to read up some more before you are ready to jump on.. do the research before you start and don't mess yourself up.
whatever you do... do NOT do oral only cycle.

Thanks for the warning, I will be looking into it as soon as I have extra time. Any input on the other questions I had?

 

[Zigma]

Also, is test a precycle?

 

[Docd187]

About me: 5'9", 25, 215lbs.

I've always been a bit on the heavy side, I store fat like a fucking baby seal. Anyway, been working out on and off since I was 19, got depressed and without even realizing it i was 250. I started eating right and working out seriously for the past 3 years. I have not been able to lose anymore body fat or gain a significant amount of strength. I'm not against drugs or anything but always wanted to see how far I could push myself without the assistance of hormones, however, right now I'm at the point of my life were I'm just tired of not seeing positive results. I understand that people don't recommend winabol by itself but I just want to see enough results to keep me motivated, I need that push, if that makes sense.

I will be taking 50mg per day (25mg then 9hrs another 25mg) and have a few questions before i start.

1.- Will be taking Clomid as post cycle therapy (pct). Is this ok or do you guys have any better recommendations? Also, do i take post cycle therapy (pct) after the cycle has completed or during it?

2.- I've read that eating right is extremely important (obviously it is always important but in this case dude to the cycle). I have been doing Paleo for the past 5 months, it's helped maintained my weight without bouncing back. Is this still ok? or should I change eating habits?

3.- Also, for the same period of time, I have doing Wendler's 5/3/1 weight-lifting program to increase my strength. I've been keeping track and it's helped so far. Just want to know if i should keep doing this or not during the cycle.

4.- Cardio before lifting, yay or nay?

5.- feel free to add any extra info you would like. I appreciate constructive criticism and feedback. Thanks in advance for everyone's help.

1) oral only cycles are a poor choice of cycle. Much better options out there. If you don't know when to do a post cycle therapy (pct), you're not ready to do a cycle since what the post cycle therapy (pct) acronym stands for should answer your question of when to start it. Plus there are better post cycle therapy (pct) protocols (depending on your cycle) than clomid alone. If you already know ppl wont recommend oral only cycles why ask? The wise ppl on here will not recommend it no matter how much you want to hear a yes. If you need motivation in the form of a substance, again you're not ready to cycle.

2) Paleo is a moronic fad diet. The name of your diet is irrelevant. What's important is to grasp the basics of nutrition and apply those principles to YOUR diet. Calculate TDEE and increase by 10-20% or reduce by 10-20% depending on your goals i.e. bulk or cut. Hit a minimum of 1g/lb BW protein .4g/lb BW dietary fat, and the remaining calories can come from carbs, more protein, more fat or any combination of the 3. Your food choices should be primarily made up of whole and minimally processed foods so as to ensure macro and micro nutrient needs are met. The foods you eat should be the foods you enjoy, you don't have to give up foods you love or inversely eat foods you hate. Portion control, planning ahead, a macronutrient calculator such as myfitnesspal will help, and a food scale to weigh out portions.

3) wendler's 5/3/1 is an excellent intermediate lifting program. It sounds as if you're a beginner though so you may benefit from changing to a beginner routine since the rate of progression will be much faster and takes advantage of your increased recovery capabilities. You can stick with wendler's but the progression will be slower than what you truly are capable of.

4) cardio can be done anytime except immediately prior to lifting SO LONG AS it doesn't interfere with your lifting. Cardio only helps burn calories but lifting will increase LBM and help preserve muscle mass through a cut so it is far more important than cardio. HIIT, low intensity, running, elliptical, basketball, etc do what you enjoy and can stick with and do it whatever time is convenient for you but do not let it affect your lifting. Switching up the forms of cardio can also help with boredom and work load.

5) you're not ready for a cycle, you have a lot more research to do and the higher BF % you start at when you do use AAS, the more likely you are to aromatize and increase estrogen levels and through that increase body fat during a bulk more than muscle. The higher your body fat usually the worse your calorie partitioning and p-ratio. Stick to natty training for a while, do more research in the meantime, and find a source of motivation that doesn't come in a bottle or pill form (you'll thank me later when that bottle or pill ends and your motivation goes with it)

 

[riprockwell]

Looks like Doc nailed your questions for you. I will just say that an oral only cycle is a bad idea for numerous reasons. If you are having a hard time dropping weight then you can do 2 things. First one, you need to check your thyroid levels to see how those are at the current moment. Second, you may be carb sensitive like myself and a Keto diet would probably work for you. Keto diets basically work on 99% of the people who actually try them and stick with them. It is a carb cycling diet. That might be your problem. I do know that hormonal imbalances can make it difficult to lose weight. So on top of testing your thyroid, I would test all hormones such as thyroid, testosterone, estrogen, cortisol, SHBG, DHEA, and your liver/kidney values as well.

 

[Docd187]

Looks like Doc nailed your questions for you. I will just say that an oral only cycle is a bad idea for numerous reasons. If you are having a hard time dropping weight then you can do 2 things. First one, you need to check your thyroid levels to see how those are at the current moment. Second, you may be carb sensitive like myself and a Keto diet would probably work for you. Keto diets basically work on 99% of the people who actually try them and stick with them. It is a carb cycling diet. That might be your problem. I do know that hormonal imbalances can make it difficult to lose weight. So on top of testing your thyroid, I would test all hormones such as thyroid, testosterone, estrogen, cortisol, SHBG, DHEA, and your liver/kidney values as well.

I agree with you Rip on everything except one point and that's to check the thyroid. I only say this bc we as a country have gotten lazier, eating above and beyond are requirements, lack discipline, and making poor choices etc. we are so quick to say "I can't gain weight therefore I must be a hardgainer", "I can't lose weight therefore I must have thyroid issues", I had a poor workout, I need a new program (not mentioning was out drinking till 2am)", my lifts aren't going up therefore I'm not taking enough supplements" etc etc. we have very little personal responsibility and discipline and want quick easy fixes and we want to put the blame on everyone and everything but ourselves. It's time to look in the mirror and realize that poor genetics is a cop out (99.9% or the time), poor nutritional choices lead to unwanted weight gain or difficulty in gaining weight, and lack of discipline keeps us from achieving goals since we want them yesterday and can't be bothered to take our time with a sound approach. I'm sorry but this rant was NOT directed at you brother, your advice is on point and I agree with it wholeheartedly, its just I think it's time we look in the mirror and accept that our choices lead us to where we are, not genetics, hard gainer/under gainer, etc

 

[riprockwell]

I agree with you Rip on everything except one point and that's to check the thyroid. I only say this bc we as a country have gotten lazier, eating above and beyond are requirements, lack discipline, and making poor choices etc. we are so quick to say "I can't gain weight therefore I must be a hardgainer", "I can't lose weight therefore I must have thyroid issues", I had a poor workout, I need a new program (not mentioning was out drinking till 2am)", my lifts aren't going up therefore I'm not taking enough supplements" etc etc. we have very little personal responsibility and discipline and want quick easy fixes and we want to put the blame on everyone and everything but ourselves. It's time to look in the mirror and realize that poor genetics is a cop out (99.9% or the time), poor nutritional choices lead to unwanted weight gain or difficulty in gaining weight, and lack of discipline keeps us from achieving goals since we want them yesterday and can't be bothered to take our time with a sound approach. I'm sorry but this rant was NOT directed at you brother, your advice is on point and I agree with it wholeheartedly, its just I think it's time we look in the mirror and accept that our choices lead us to where we are, not genetics, hard gainer/under gainer, etc. But I will say that people use it as an excuse wayyyyy too often. Lol.

I see your point and I can agree to a certain extent. One thing people have to realize is that our environment is full of toxins and processed foods, etc. That is why testosterone levels are diminishing as we speak. As a general awareness, it is always good to see where your hormone levels are. I will say that a lot of guys these days have low T and are suffering from the symptoms. Could it be food choices? Sure. Could it be alcohol abuse and prescription drug abuse?? Sure. However, just like testosterone ranges, the thyroid ranges have changed as well. Back in the day, anything above a 2.5 for your TSH result was considered hypothyroid. Now, the range goes up to 3.5 and some labs have it at 4. That is because more and more people have been coming in with higher than average TSH levels. All I am saying is that it is good for everyone to know where your hormone levels are at. For all we know, this guys thyroid might be really slow at the moment. Of course we have to look at the big picture so like I said, I can agree with you to a certain extent. I was in a very similar situation as original poster. I knew dieting and could lose weight and then it stopped all of a sudden. Turns out my thyroid was slow. Hopped on some T3 and the weight came off, etc.

 

[Docd187]

I see your point and I can agree to a certain extent. One thing people have to realize is that our environment is full of toxins and processed foods, etc. That is why testosterone levels are diminishing as we speak. As a general awareness, it is always good to see where your hormone levels are. I will say that a lot of guys these days have low T and are suffering from the symptoms. Could it be food choices? Sure. Could it be alcohol abuse and prescription drug abuse?? Sure. However, just like testosterone ranges, the thyroid ranges have changed as well. Back in the day, anything above a 2.5 for your TSH result was considered hypothyroid. Now, the range goes up to 3.5 and some labs have it at 4. That is because more and more people have been coming in with higher than average TSH levels. All I am saying is that it is good for everyone to know where your hormone levels are at. For all we know, this guys thyroid might be really slow at the moment. Of course we have to look at the big picture so like I said, I can agree with you to a certain extent. I was in a very similar situation as original poster. I knew dieting and could lose weight and then it stopped all of a sudden. Turns out my thyroid was slow. Hopped on some T3 and the weight came off, etc.

Again there's nothing I can't agree with here. My sister is diabetic and suffers from hypothyroidism/Hashimoto's disease so I know exactly where you're coming from. Weight loss for her is extremely difficult but possible. She does take syntherol (a T3 or T4 medication I believe) and it does help her but its still difficult nonetheless. Glad to hear you've got your body figured out and taking the necessary steps to attain your goals!

 

[Zigma]

Thanks a lot guys. This has been really useful. I already have a Dr's appointment for my yearly check up and will make sure to ask all the questions I can.