Women can not get gynocomastia

[jerseystepup]

I just wanted to clear something up for people out there that may be getting false medical advice... The source of the information I'm about to give is from my education and background... I'm an ARDMS liscense diagnostic medical sonographer, with a resume that ranges from ob/gyn, to general radiology, to mammo specialists...

Women can not get gynocomastia... Even by definition, the word means change in MALE breast tissue... it would be like refering to ovarian cancer or fibroids, as testicular pathology.

Changes in women breast tissue are possible yes, whether it be benign or malignant, fluid or solid. However administering Clomid for this can cause huge issues... Especially if a biopsy is not done and it turns out to be malignant. Also claims on here by a female that a Natural Testosterone Booster + clomid made her "lesion" go away are absolutly absurd.. Anyone who knows anything about basic anatomy it's not hard to understand why. Testosterone boosters in women can actually be linked to an increase in breast cancer risk.. This can be found out by a simple search on google..

Why am i posting this? I got a warning on this forum for breaking the rule of "insulting a member" with the simple quote of "women can not get gynocomastia" Well, women can't.

I'm sure this will be deleted, as a matter of fact theres a link to it on other boards and we're waiting to see how long it takes the mod's to back one another and take it down, over the fact that it provides accurate information about a member misguiding people. So let's see what name "Steroidology" lives up to here.

Again, I'm not bashing any products, however there is a HUGE difference in pathology/diagnosis/treatment between male and female anatomy. If the wrong woman is doing an online search here and sees a reputable member saying that a testosterone booster cured something that her doctor thought was either "a fibrocystic lesion or gyncomastia" the results could be terrible..

So mod's do what you want with this, as we all expect you will. But misinformation needs to be called out.
Best to all.

 

[MS1605]

Jersey Vs Bombshell II

Ding Ding Ding!!!

Anyways, Not to get off subject but What is a medical sonographer doing on an AAS board? Are you here because you are/have used gear or are you just here trying to give insite on things from a medical standpoint?

If its the former that would be great. AAS users that have a resume on the med side of things always seem to bring good insight from not only a scientific standpoint but real life application. Just curious...

 

[drewbolic]

hmmm....

 

[jerseystepup]

I'm both an experienced AAS user as well as a sonographer... I currently am in the transition of moving to Invasive cardiac involved procedures assisting radiologists... things such as PIC line insertions, cardiac trauma, aortic aneurysm/dissections..

I'm not normally one to get into a pissing match at all, but the fact that i was warned about being banned for giving sound medical advice, and calling someone out on being inaccurate is absurd.. Im very against crossing a MOD. Especially on my home boards (this isn't one of them) But when i saw this i opened it up to discussion at some other spots, and people have been following it, and it was general consensus, that when it went as far as me about to be banned for this, something had to be said publicly... It's not a joke.

 

[Teutonic]

.... the definition of gyno is for men..correct but misleading...as women CAN form lumps in their breasts...and roids can aggravate this condition...semantics.

 

[jerseystepup]

.... the definition of gyno is for men..correct but misleading...as women CAN form lumps in their breasts...and roids can aggravate this condition...semantics.

Absolutly... you're right... Why? Increased testosterone in women is linked to an increase in breast cancer risk or any existing fibrotic tissue can grow larger.. In such situations a DR. would provide something along the lines of femara. To reduce estrogen. To use a testosterone booster in this case? No way.

 

[drewbolic]

So is there a medical term for gyno like symptoms in females?

 

[jerseystepup]

So is there a medical term for gyno like symptoms in females?

Define gyno like symptoms.... Meaning if a patient (female) comes into the office and has been using AAS and found an abnormal lump in her tissue? not being a smart ass, just not sure exactly what you mean.

 

[drewbolic]

Define gyno like symptoms.... Meaning if a patient (female) comes into the office and has been using AAS and found an abnormal lump in her tissue? not being a smart ass, just not sure exactly what you mean.

yes

 

[jerseystepup]

"gyno" symptoms in females go deeper than in men.... Unless an ultrasound proves 100% (very rarely does) that it's a cystic lesion. Almost always will it have to be biopsied... There isn't a known cause for breast cancer.. The SUSPECTED but unproven cause of breast cancer is estrogen related... Hence why the female to male breast cancer ratio is about 100/1...

So if a woman has growing tissue odds are it will be biospied, and if not a malignant lesion, it can be anythng from a simple cyst, to a fibroadenoma, to an intraductal papilloma... among many other things...

Changes in womens breast tissue whether on AAS or not are due to hormonal fluctuation; either estrogen or progesterone related.

A natural testosterone booster is NOT the way to take care of this problem..

 

[Blondie_Bombshell]

"gyno" symptoms in females go deeper than in men.... Unless an ultrasound proves 100% (very rarely does) that it's a cystic lesion. Almost always will it have to be biopsied... There isn't a known cause for breast cancer.. The SUSPECTED but unproven cause of breast cancer is estrogen related... Hence why the female to male breast cancer ratio is about 100/1...

So if a woman has growing tissue odds are it will be biospied, and if not a malignant lesion, it can be anythng from a simple cyst, to a fibroadenoma, to an intraductal papilloma... among many other things...

Changes in womens breast tissue whether on AAS or not are due to hormonal fluctuation; either estrogen or progesterone related.

A natural testosterone booster is NOT the way to take care of this problem..

Just like gyno.

Well the clomid for 2 weeks and the Foraged PCT did help regulate my hormones. SO AGAIN. I am not here to prove anything to anyone. I am simply stating what worked for me.(Isnt that what 90% of postings on boards are?) In case another women goes through what I did.

Im glad its gone and it was a scary thing to go through. I wish there would have been info about it on the boards and there was not. Now that I have posted it, its there as a reference for women.

 

[jerseystepup]

What your not understanding is that there is no such thing as "gyno" in women... Your exact words to me where that your "breast specialist" was unsure if you had firbocystic lesions OR gynocomastic growth... There is no such thing as gynocomastic anything in women, it's cut and dry.. He obviosly had no idea what he was talking about... And for him to just put you on clomid not knowing if your growth was malignant or benign... He should loose his practice... Then for you to self administer a testosterone booster??? Absolutly reckless... If it was malignant, boosting your testosterone would have made the malignancy spread like wild fire...

You need to stop suggesting that a natural testosterone booster can be a solution for taking care of a lump due to AAS in women.

If it works for men GREAT! suggest the product, tell them you know it works and that be that..

Don't tell people that you "had gyno"... Women can't get gynocomastia... and your "breast specialist has no idea what you had... Your very lucky that it wasn't malignant..

I said it before and I'll say it again... If a woman has any type of malignant lesion in her breast, then has an increase in her testosterone... the malignancy will spread like wildfire.

 

[Blondie_Bombshell]

Which is why I had it checked out first duh!

If you want to continue to talk abou tmy breasts, feel free to do so. But you are simply saying the same thing over and over again.

If you have beef with NeedTo, take it up with him, not me. You know where his board is.

 

[edogger]

I can see how taking clomid for 2 weeks could help regulate, but timing would be critical as you would have to take it on day 1 of your reproductive cycle. Otherwise you could screw the whole thing up. The test booster on the other hand doesnt seem like a good idea at all if you have a lump.

 

[freakinhuge]

great gyno debate here..... some very good info.

 

[Needtogetaas]

Really all I see here is the argument over a word!! GYNO? OMG big frigging deal. A woman's breast CAN GROW and they CAN SHRINK depending on hormone levels. Which even you jerseystepup have said about 80 times in this thread. When her breast tissue/breast do get bigger is this called GYNO? Who really frigging cares other then you?

Point being the girls tits grew a lot. This scared her. Took clomid, as well as a product that by the looks of it you have no damn clue what it is, and her tits went back to the normal size she is accustomed to and comfortable with.

I mean from your post in this thread you are pounding away trying to hammer home some kind of point any growth in a womans tits needs to be looked at by a doctor right away. Fucks sake my wifes tits grow 2 sizes just from changing the birth control she is on.

Not only that. Write or wrong you are just being a plan flat out jerk bro. I went over to the thread you were posting in and are talking about. Your attitude was in no way that of a man trying to help anyone. You jumped right in that thread with comments like "Bump... im dying to hear about this one....." . From there very start acting like you are gearing up for some kind of keyboard war.

Peace of advice for you bro. No one likes an asshole. Sure they are fun to watch in action some times. In the end though you're still a prick and no one gives a shit about your little show once its over. Keep that in mind there keyboard commando. YA for you you put on a lively show for people. You want a cookie?

But just to keep you going and here more of your rambling crap I will add to the conversation in a bit. Maybe, just maybe you will drop the punk attitude and speak to the mods and members of this site with a little respect some day. THis I highly doubt though. I can just see you getting worse and worse the second anyone gives you a hand up on that high horse you are sitting on by stroking your ego.

 

[Needtogetaas]

Gynecomastia-like changes of the female breast: A clinicopathologic study of 4 cases | Archives of Pathology & Laboratory Medicine | Find Articles at BNET


* Objectives.-Gynecomastia-like changes of the female breast are only sparsely reported and are not well defined in the literature to our knowledge. Our objectives were to determine the incidence, clinical presentation, mammographic findings, and the medical background of patients with these changes.

Design.-Two thousand seven hundred nine female breast surgical cases from 1995 to 1999 were searched by SNOMED. Three observers further reviewed all cases with gynecomastia-like changes. Strict criteria were developed and cases that fulfilled the criteria were analyzed further.

Results.-We found the incidence of female gynecomastia-like changes to be 0.15% (4/2709) of all female breast lesions, which represents an underestimation. Patients were usually young and had an average age of 32 years. The usual clinical presentation was a palpable mass with a size ranging from about 3.5 x 2 x 2 cm to 5 x 4 x 2.5 cm. Mammography showed either negative findings or a nonspecific density. Gross examination of these specimens revealed no distinct lesions. Histologically, the lesions consisted of ductal hyperplasia with periductal stromal fibrosis or edema. They were associated with fibrocystic changes in the adjacent breast. The patients had no significant medical history.



The term gynecomastia is used to describe male breast enlargement. It is the most common pathologic abnormality of the male breast and has been reported to be present in 30% to 40% of adolescent and adult males.1,2 It is usually a benign condition but may involve other associated underlying diseases. Rarely, carcinoma can arise from gynecomastia.3 Histologically, the lesion has a specific pattern and is characterized as ductal hyperplasia and periductal stromal fibrosis or edema with slight lymphocytic infiltrate.3

A similar histologic pattern has also been described in the female breast. Due to lack of a specific definition, different authors have named gynecomastia-like changes of the female breast differently. Terms that have been used include gynecomastia-like hyperplasia,3 mammary hamartoma or adenolipoma,4 as a pattern within juvenile hypertrophy when occurring in young girls,5 and juvenile fibroadenoma.6 Some authors consider gynecomastia-like changes of the female breast to be a form of ductal hyperplasia?

Although gynecomastia-like changes of female breast have been variously described by different authors, no data are available with respect to incidence, common clinical presentation, mammographic findings, and patients' medical backgrounds. We undertook this study to define this pattern and study its clinical significance. Following our review of the literature on this subject, we believe there are also major histologic differences between previously reported gynecomastia-like changes and male gynecomastia. Lobules were seen in some of the previously described lesions, which is not a feature of male gynecomastia. We developed strict criteria for the diagnosis of gynecomastia-like changes (see "Materials and Methods"). We report 4 cases of gynecomastia-like changes of female breast that fulfill the criteria.

MATERIALS AND METHODS

From 1995 to 1999, 2709 breast biopsies and/or surgical excision specimens were processed in our department. These cases were searched by SNOMED classification and were identified by the diagnosis and/or comments of gynecomastia-like change. Among these cases, 9 were noted to have gynecomastia-like changes. Three observers further initially reviewed these 9 cases.

After the initial review, we modified the criteria described by Rosen et a13 as follows:

1. Ductal hyperplasia and periductal stromal fibrosis or edema and slight lymphocytic infiltrate.

2. No terminal duct-lobular units present in area of involvement.

3. The involved area should be greater than 1 scanning field (2 x 10) in an excision specimen. In case of a core biopsy, 1 fragment should be involved entirely and the fragment should be at least 1 cm in length.

4. No associated mammary hamartomatous changes, areas of juvenile hyperplasia, or juvenile fibroadenoma.

Using these criteria we further reviewed and analyzed these cases.

RESULTS

A total of 9 cases were found to have a previous diagnosis of gynecomastia-like changes. After review by 3 pathologists applying the criteria listed in "Materials and Methods," 5 cases were eliminated. Two excision specimens were eliminated owing to presence of lobules within a scanning low-power field. One excision specimen was eliminated because the consensus diagnosis after further review was juvenile hypertrophy, as described by Tavassoli.5 One other case, although the patient was 52 years old, showed gynecomastia-type change adjacent to areas resembling juvenile hypertrophy. One core biopsy specimen was removed owing to the presence of a mixture of gynecomastia-like changes and other benign alterations within 1 scanning low-power field.

 

[Needtogetaas]

Four of the 9 cases that had a previous diagnosis of gynecomastia-like changes were found to fulfill our criteria. Three were excision biopsies, and 1 was a core biopsy in which the entire fragment demonstrated gynecomastia-type changes and which fulfilled the criteria for core biopsy specimens outlined in the "Materials and Methods."

Case 1.-A 39-year-old woman had fullness in the upper inner quadrant of her right breast. A palpable mass was felt both by the patient and by her physician. Malignancy was suspected. No mammography or ultrasound examination was performed. A surgical excision biopsy was performed. A tan-pink to tan-yellow, lobulated, irregular mass measuring 3.5 x 2 x 2 cm was obtained. Pathologic examination revealed breast tissue with fibrocystic changes and gynecomastia-like changes occupying 1 low-- scanning-power field (Figures 1 and 2).


Case 2.-A 28-year-old woman presented with a right breast mass. Mammography showed a large asymmetrical density. Three fragments of rubbery breast tissue measuring 5 X 4 x 2.5 cm, 3 x 1.5 X 1 cm, and 2.2 x 1 X 0.5 cm were obtained through excision biopsy. Pathologic examination revealed breast tissue with gynecomastia-like changes and fibrocystic changes.

Case 3.-A 42-year-old woman presented with a left breast mass. Core biopsies showed infiltrating ductal carcinoma. A left radical mastectomy was performed. An area of gynecomastia-like changes was found incidentally (Figure 3).

Case 4.-A 19-year-old woman presented with a palgable right breast mass. Ultrasound evaluation failed to disclose a focal sonographic lesion. Core biopsy was performed. Three cylindrically shaped fragments of breast tissue measuring from 0.8 X 0.1 cm to 1.2 X 0.1 cm were obtained. Microscopic examination revealed ductal hyperplasia and periductal stromal edema with slight lymphocytic infiltrate. No terminal duct-lobular units were present in the area of involvement (Figure 4).


The analysis of these 4 cases is summarized in the Table.

The patients' ages ranged from 19 to 42 years, with a mean of 32 years. The usual clinical presentation was a palpable mass, except for one case (case 3) in which the patient had surgery for invasive ductal carcinoma and the gynecomastia-like change was an incidental finding. The available mammographic findings ranged from no specific findings even in the area of the palpable lump to a large asymmetric density. Gross examination of these spemens usually showed soft to slightly firm, irregular to ovoid masses of fibroadipose tissue. Histologically, the masses showed ductal hyperplasia with periductal stromal fibrosis or edema without presence of lobules, and these areas occupied at least 1 scanning power field (Figures 1 through 4). All lesions occupied only 1 or a few scanning power fields. Adjacent areas showed fibrocystic changes, such as cystic dilation and/or nonperiductal stromal fibrosis. Most of the patients had no significant medical history (Table).

COMMENT The histologic pattern of the cases we discuss here was previously referred to as female gynecomastia-like changes. However, previous reports described only a few cases, and no specific histologic criteria were given for the diagnosis. In our review of prior reports, we noted that in some illustrations the lesions showed the presence of terminal duct-lobular units,8 which is not the finding in male gynecomastia, in which no terminal duct-lobular units are present. Our criteria stipulate that the lesions must not contain lobules.

 

[Needtogetaas]

Rosen in his textbook briefly referred to and illustrated gynecomastia of the female breast.3 It is the same lesion we describe in our report. He indicated that it is rare and that it is indistinguishable from male gynecomastia. We add to his observation by offering a strict definition of the change and documenting its incidence. Previously, Rosen in collaboration with Oberman described and illustrated gynecomastia-type changes as a component of mammary hamartoma.4 The latter are sharply circumscribed masses of ducts and lobules with heterogeneous mixtures of dense connective tissue, adipose tissue, and less commonly smooth muscles or hyaline cartilage.4 The mammary hamartoma differs from the gynecomastia-like changes studied here, which merge gradually with normal breast and which have no components of cartilage or smooth muscle. Tavassoli5 in her text illustrated gynecomastia-like changes occurring in a case of juvenile hypertrophy. Similarly, Millis et alb in the recent edition of a standard textbook illustrated gynecomastia-like change as a component of juvenile fibroadenoma. Our patients did not demonstrate the striking clinical and histologic findings of juvenile hypertrophy nor were the lesions well demarcated, as expected with a fibroadenoma.

 

[Needtogetaas]

Rosai7 described gynecomastia-like changes as a form of ductal hyperplasia, in agreement with the study of Tham et al.1 However, these authors described a purely ductal process with ductal epithelial hyperplasia similar to that seen in gynecomastia. These changes differ from the gynecomastia-like changes described by Rosen and by us3 in that their cases demonstrated the presence of lobules and absence of periductal changes.

In summary, we describe a rare histologic change seen in the female breast. It may be seen in other lesions of the breast (juvenile hypertrophy, juvenile fibroadenoma, or breast hamartoma), but in our cases it occurred as an incidental finding without specific clinical, mammographic, or gross findings. We believe it lies within the spectrum of fibrocystic change and is probably an expression of stromal overgrowth in the latter. It is a finding usually seen in younger women.

The etiology of this lesion is obscure. It is thought that male gynecomastia is the result of an imbalance between androgen and estrogen, with estrogen action exceeding that of androgen.9 All our cases had no significant medical history. The small number (4 cases) and the short followup does not permit evaluation of premalignant potential.

We conclude at this time that gynecomastia-like change of female breast is a benign pattern, is rare, and usually occurs in young patients. Although its clinical findings are nonspecific, it has a specific histologic pattern and probably should be subclassified within the spectrum of fibrocystic change, reflecting stromal predominance in fibrocystic change.