10+ years Lifting, First Cycle - Test E/Deca

[RyanGJones]

28, 215 lbs - 12% Body Fat -- i want mass and size - 17.5 Arms looking at 20" one day - Ive lifted for strength for years, now just want the size.

Ive trained for a few years on my off time. I've kept a log book for 2 years. My diet (although low in Carbs) is extremely clean - 300+ protein, 3K calories, 85 carbs (all complex). Ive injected a few friends over the past few years, I know the process

So here is the issue - after 6 months of research, Im ready to start a cycle. I originally planned on a PH cycle, but just found a trustworthy "hook-up". Ive known several people to complete cycles only to lose gains with no post cycle therapy (pct), and Ive known friends to still keep them months after a cycle with no post cycle therapy (pct). I cant be sure of exactly what substances they were on. I am paranoid, so I will be using

For me, with my cycle - Just looking for some advice on how to run it. I was going to do 2 injections of each Deca and test-E per week

test - 300mg/ 2x a week
deca - 200 mg 2x a week

How long would you run 8 weeks? 16 weeks? negative effects on body?

The real question comes here -- i had originally planned on just doing Clomid after the cycle, but the more I read, the more I see I should be using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during cycle? an A.I. (although i thought wasnt needed when Deca included in cycle)? What doses and days should I start? I see so many differing opinions.

I am not starting for 2 weeks - anything i can be doing/taking now to "prepare" my body?

Advice! Please!

 

[HUGE.HULK]

I did the same cycle 12 weeks and everything's good.
For PCT I use nolva 40/40/20/20 & clomid 100/100/50/50.

If you use test enanthate you can kick start with anavar 3x20/day for 2-4 weeks.

 

[RyanGJones]

Exactly what I was looking for - and i will assume those are by weeks

Nolva -
week 1 -40
week 2 -40
week 3 - 20
week 4 - 20

and u started this the day after your last test/deca injection, 5 days later?

 

[rubicon09]

Ryan first cycle should always be test alone. this is to see what sides your getting from the compound most people react different to it. deca is a little more complicated of a compound as it affects are a little more complicated to control. in my opinion you should do a test only cycle for 12 weeks as you stick around here longer and read on deca. you should have a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand for estrogen sides and run clomid for pct 50mg for 4 weeks.

 

[Teutonic]

Drop the deca for now.
test e 500 a week for 12 weeks.
pct..chlomid 50 e d for 28 days.
An Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand to counter.

Simple cheap perfect 1 st run.

 

[RJ]

My diet (although low in Carbs) is extremely clean - 300+ protein, 3K calories, 85 carbs (all complex).

i'd be more concerned about your diet than anything.

If you want size, you're gonna have to get some good kcals. Which means cheats, etc. It takes a shit load of time to gain quality mass eating like a bird. Not saying get fat, but adding cheat meals will make you bigger quicker.

And since you think you're ready for juice, you might as well take advantage and do it correctly.

 

[RyanGJones]

Thanks guys, this is why i decided to post - I was excited about the combo - but I see your points - I will hold the deca I have to the side till after summer --

My diet and the workout are really the least of my worries, i have been obsessing over both for years - im actually looking forward to the extra oatmeal, sweet potatoes and brown rice --

ill be keeping an online journal with pics - Thank you all for your help

 

[pandawithcancer]

Why are your carbs so low? You need at least 150 for proper metabolic function and to feed your body. Carbs spare your protein to do the muscle building. also you'll replenish your glycogen stores. Glucose converted from protein via gluconeogenesis isn't nearly as effective. Up your carbs and I bet you'll put on more size. you must look flat as hell

 

[RJ]

My diet and the workout are really the least of my worries, i have been obsessing over both for years - im actually looking forward to the extra oatmeal, sweet potatoes and brown rice --

i think you misunderstood. You want size. Eating a bunch of sweet potato and brown rice doesn't get you there. Well, it may but you gotta eat ALOT of it and it will take a while.

Most guys are afraid to add cheat meals in, but that is how you add that mass you want. Do what you want, but just trying to help you reach your goals without being bored outta your fucking mind eating that clean shit alll the time.

 

[RyanGJones]

lesson of the day -- jack up my carbss -- i was one of those guys who put on the freshman 35 in college -- i lost it all very quickly on a very low carb diet -- since then, ive kept them in check -- shit, 100 seemed like alot to me (now) -- but yes, i certainly understand i need to increase that # greatly -- with me its always been a mental thing -- seeing extra bloat, a layer on top of my gut -- but yes, as of breakfast this morning, i will be tracking and eating as much as i can - i have usually kept myself around 200, in the past 6 weeks -- ive been lifting and eating for size -- im 215 now at 5'11'' - im ready - i start in 2 weeks - just making sure im "mentally" ready

 

[RJ]

its not all about carbs my man, so don't get too wrapped around that either. Its about good kcals.

I eat clean 90-95% of the week. But when i was competing and in the off season, it was a cheat meal EOD. Just a meal, not a whole day, and i would add in a "Big SUnday" twice a month, maybe more.

You just can't get BIG while eating super clean all the time. And just because you add cheats doesn't mean you will get fat. Quite the opposite if you do it correctly.

Good luck.

 

[ezred]

its not all about carbs my man, so don't get too wrapped around that either. Its about good kcals.

I eat clean 90-95% of the week. But when i was competing and in the off season, it was a cheat meal EOD. Just a meal, not a whole day, and i would add in a "Big SUnday" twice a month, maybe more.

You just can't get BIG while eating super clean all the time. And just because you add cheats doesn't mean you will get fat. Quite the opposite if you do it correctly.

Good luck.

yeah jacking your kcals up super high tells triggers your body to shed more. you can use cheats very nicely to cut fat if you eat strategically the other 5-6 days a week.

on thing though, to guys that say you gotta jack up carbs during the cycle.... people's bodies deal with food differently. i can eat VERY low carb and have loads of energy, look and feel "full" (like muscle fullness not stomach fullness.)

when i eat too many carbs (too many for me is low-moderate for most bb'ers probably) i get bloated and look and feel like shit.

and yes, that is even with them being clean carbs.

 

[RJ]

yeah jacking your kcals up super high tells triggers your body to shed more. you can use cheats very nicely to cut fat if you eat strategically the other 5-6 days a week.

on thing though, to guys that say you gotta jack up carbs during the cycle.... people's bodies deal with food differently. i can eat VERY low carb and have loads of energy, look and feel "full" (like muscle fullness not stomach fullness.)

when i eat too many carbs (too many for me is low-moderate for most bb'ers probably) i get bloated and look and feel like shit.

and yes, that is even with them being clean carbs.

excellent points Ez. For a guy my size I can survive on a suprisingly low level of carbs while staying full. Of course i have to add in cheats, but those bursts of carbs are enough for me.

I've tried the mega doses of carbs... not always a fun time.

 

[pandawithcancer]

excellent points Ez. For a guy my size I can survive on a suprisingly low level of carbs while staying full. Of course i have to add in cheats, but those bursts of carbs are enough for me.

I've tried the mega doses of carbs... not always a fun time.

You guys are lucky, I have to jack up my carbs to feel full or make any gains whatsoever