17 y/o kid dies from taking steroids?

lmao stfu you cant get kidney failure from 4 weeks of dbol in a healthy person , theres cunts running 3 grams of shit 100s of mgs of orals year round

Your reading and comprehention skills are that if a 2 yr old. Please go back and read slowl enough so u can understand what I typed. If u cant make heads or tales of it after reading it again please do not reproduce and pass your genes on. Thank you
 
Your reading and comprehention skills are that if a 2 yr old. Please go back and read slowl enough so u can understand what I typed. If u cant make heads or tales of it after reading it again please do not reproduce and pass your genes on. Thank you

"If lets say this kid was taking dbol at higher doses with no knowledge and an extended amou t of time with no off time there could be a good chance he could have died from either liver or kidney failure"

lmao
 
lol u cant just die from high bp enless its fucked up high for along time , ur wrong about the air,

and were talking about a kid who died within 3 weeks of consuming roids not fcuking 3 years of heavy use

you have no idea what your talking about I don't know ANYONE whos died from steroids and some have been using for 20 - 30 years

A simple weak spot in an artery (not uncommon) coupled with high blood pressure can cause a fatal stroke. The problem is hypertension can't be diagnosed with a simple visit to the doctor's office. So most folks who have this go unnoticed. Instead they take headache medication for years on end. Pressure above 140/90 for these extended periods is called Chronic high blood pressure. This condition stiffens your vessels and inevitably results in cholesterol related blockage, which is a culprit for heart attacks.

Hypertension is without question linked to seizures, strokes, attacks and pulmonary edema. Scientifically, you can, 100%, without a doubt, die from high blood pressure.
 
"If lets say this kid was taking dbol at higher doses with no knowledge and an extended amou t of time with no off time there could be a good chance he could have died from either liver or kidney failure"

lmao

Well you proved me right. Make sure that anyone you ever sleep with knows that your iq is that of a sloth. That will make sure they are knowledgeable enough not to ever get pregnant with ur kid.
 
10% of the US population have some sort of CKD (Chronic kidney disease) - if "light" cases of these go untreated it's likely that they will live, but if they are untreated and abused with drugs, chances of survival diminish. Most Over The counter products do nothing for CKD patients and powerful prescription drugs are necessary.
 
I just read an article from when this kid died, and I'd first like to say this is a tragedy and my condolences go out to the family and friends. However, apparently this kid felt sick for a couple weeks, before he had severe swelling in his brain and his kidneys failed... Those don't sound like the side effects of short-term usage of any steroid I've ever heard of. If it was a heart issue I'd be a little more inclined to believe that AAS use aggravated it in such a short time, however this sounds more like a medical issue that is completely separate from steroids, it actually sounds similar to what a friend of mine went through (though far less severe) when he had meningitis as a kid
 
A simple weak spot in an artery (not uncommon) coupled with high blood pressure can cause a fatal stroke. The problem is hypertension can't be diagnosed with a simple visit to the doctor's office. So most folks who have this go unnoticed. Instead they take headache medication for years on end. Pressure above 140/90 for these extended periods is called Chronic high blood pressure. This condition stiffens your vessels and inevitably results in cholesterol related blockage, which is a culprit for heart attacks.

Hypertension is without question linked to seizures, strokes, attacks and pulmonary edema. Scientifically, you can, 100%, without a doubt, die from high blood pressure.

Not one to argue with you Austinite as I do enjoy your insight - but hasn't the cholesterol based plaque causing heart failure been debunked? I do agree that high bp can kill you over time as heart disease is one of, if not THE highest cause of mortality today. I haven't read up on it in awhile, but I swear I read that there was a study done showing cholesterol is not the boogey man we thought it was. No disrespect intended of course. :)
 
Not one to argue with you Austinite as I do enjoy your insight - but hasn't the cholesterol based plaque causing heart failure been debunked? I do agree that high bp can kill you over time as heart disease is one of, if not THE highest cause of mortality today. I haven't read up on it in awhile, but I swear I read that there was a study done showing cholesterol is not the boogey man we thought it was. No disrespect intended of course. :)

Well, it certainly has been suggested, but are you referring to recent study linking L-Carnitine's conversion to TMAO as the culprit instead?

No issues debating brother, you know me, I enjoy discussion with people of your caliber and always keep an open mind :)
 
AAS doesn't kill you...esp dianabol. You wouldn't just drop dead, even from liver failure because it would be gradual with very pronounced symptoms (pain, jaundice, etc). Definitely had nothing to do with AAS unless there was a severe per-exisiting condition.
 
Well, it certainly has been suggested, but are you referring to recent study linking L-Carnitine's conversion to TMAO as the culprit instead?

No issues debating brother, you know me, I enjoy discussion with people of your caliber and always keep an open mind :)

I want to say it was due to cytokines found in the blood due to the body fighting infection, but I can't find the source - so I can't say with certainty. I'll have to look for the one regarding L-Carnitine as I take a TON of it daily with my shakes haha. Yeah, I've just had a few grumpy posters lately, so I've been trying to make sure people don't think I'm coming across as a know-it-all, which I'm certainly not. :D
 
I want to say it was due to cytokines found in the blood due to the body fighting infection, but I can't find the source - so I can't say with certainty. I'll have to look for the one regarding L-Carnitine as I take a TON of it daily with my shakes haha. Yeah, I've just had a few grumpy posters lately, so I've been trying to make sure people don't think I'm coming across as a know-it-all, which I'm certainly not. :D

Carnitine chemical, not fat, may explain link between red meat and heart disease - CBS News

That's the most popular one as of late. But I can debunk the study if I need to.
 
I want to say it was due to cytokines found in the blood due to the body fighting infection, but I can't find the source - so I can't say with certainty. I'll have to look for the one regarding L-Carnitine as I take a TON of it daily with my shakes haha. Yeah, I've just had a few grumpy posters lately, so I've been trying to make sure people think I'm coming across as a know-it-all, which I most certainly am


^^^ i see what you did there :D. Hahaha. Just messing with you bro but you're pretty damn close to one. The times I see you at a loss for an explanation is so few and far in between that I've given almost given up trying to research out an answer on my own. My motto: if Halfwit doesn't know it, ITS NOT WORTH KNOWING lol!
 
Carnitine chemical, not fat, may explain link between red meat and heart disease - CBS News

That's the most popular one as of late. But I can debunk the study if I need to.
Ooooh, thanks! It sounds like some pseudoscience to me - but definitely worth a read. Gracias señor!
^^^ i see what you did there :D. Hahaha. Just messing with you bro but you're pretty damn close to one. The times I see you at a loss for an explanation is so few and far in between that I've given almost given up trying to research out an answer on my own. My motto: if Halfwit doesn't know it, ITS NOT WORTH KNOWING lol!
HAH! No way, I figure I can at least pretend to know enough while I wait for backup to arrive like Austinite/Riprockwell/Docddddd/Lord Kaname/and many others that are insanely smart meatheads. :D
 
Ooooh, thanks! It sounds like some pseudoscience to me - but definitely worth a read. Gracias señor!

HAH! No way, I figure I can at least pretend to know enough while I wait for backup to arrive like Austinite/Riprockwell/Docddddd/Lord Kaname/and many others that are insanely smart meatheads. :D

lol. I prefer the term, juice head.


jk, no i dont.
 
Carnitine chemical, not fat, may explain link between red meat and heart disease - CBS News

That's the most popular one as of late. But I can debunk the study if I need to.

The first thing that pops out at me is their sample population: "They evaluated 2,595 patients undergoing heart exams". Most ppl under 55yo, who don't smoke, and don't have history of highBP or high cholesterol are considered low risk and probably wouldn't be undergoing heart exams to begin with so that population is indicative of ppl who have increased likelihood of heart disease, not the population as a whole. Young and middle aged ppl who regularly work out and diet using proper nutritional fundamentals are at a much much lower risk of heart disease than their sample set.

I also see no mention of actual study design so for all I know the only thing they're going on is correlational data not experimental and that's what it seems like it is.

According to Dr. Krumholtz "they are working off the presumption that read meat causes heart disease" which even the medical literature is conflicted upon.

The study says "predicted increased risks for both prevalent cardiovascular disease (CVD) and incident major adverse cardiac events (myocardial infarction, stroke or death), but only among subjects with concurrently high TMAO levels "

But them goes on to say "Chronic dietary L-carnitine supplementation in mice altered cecal microbial composition, markedly enhanced synthesis of TMA and TMAO, and increased atherosclerosis, but this did not occur if intestinal microbiota was concurrently suppressed. In mice with an intact intestinal microbiota, dietary supplementation with TMAO or either carnitine or choline reduced in vivo reverse cholesterol transport. Intestinal microbiota may thus contribute to the well-established link between high levels of red meat consumption and CVD risk."

^^ so keeping intestinal microbiota would negate the risk of TMAO leading to CVD???

Can't see the whole study and don't want to pay for it so Austinite, would you mind giving your thoughts on this and what your reasoning is for debunking. Not that I disagree with you, I'd just like to see if you had access to the full study and what your thoughts were!
 
Good points doc, I read the actual study and it's considerably flawed. It was a protected PDF file and it expired so I'm not able to share it.

The study states that red meat contains L-Carnitine which converts to TMAO (trimethylamine-N-oxide), which is the ONLY culprit behind clogged arteries, and nothing else. Furthermore, Carnitine promotes growth of bacteria that produces TMAO. And that's the link to heart disease from consuming red meat.

Of course, as a heavy L-Carnitine user myself, I had to do some research on my own. So from the study, we can conclude that regardless of the original source, TMAO is what's causing damage. So let's look at some flaws in the study.

WHY SINGLE OUT RED MEAT?

So they don't want us to eat red meat. No problem. I can do that. But wait! L-Carnitine can't possibly only exist in red meat, right? Here is a list of SOME foods containing L-Carnitine:

- Beef
- Pork
- Chicken
- Milk
- Venison
- Lamb
- Duck
- Ice Cream
- Cheese
- Avocado
- Asparagus

So you see, we're looking at meats of all colors, dairy and even vegetables. Wouldn't it make more sense to study L-Carnitine in food, and IF it in fact is dangerous, to list the foods to be cautious of in order of highest content? Well, the answer is yes, to me. But to the publishers of that study, it's an obvious NO. Why? Because they can't print a study that says "Stop Eating Everything!". That wouldn't go over so well. It's human nature to develop anxiety when presented with too many things to consider. Narrowing it down to 1 or 2 items makes for a better point. Think of shopping for sunglasses, if you had to choose between 3, it's easy. But choosing between 200 sunglasses, you'd lose interest quickly. This was more an "attention getting" tactic.

By the way, TMAO exists without the need for L-Carnitine. Fish belonging to the "gadoid" family, contains TMAO, such as codfish.

L-CARNITINE IS NOT THE ONLY THING THAT RESULTS IN TMAO:

Choline is another one. Want to know what contains Choline? It's in your fridge, you had it for breakfast... EGGS! So should we stop eating eggs? I personally think not.

Let's have a look at more foods containing Choline:

- Chicken
- Turkey
- Tomatoes
- Brussel Sprouts
- Scallops
- Green Beans
- Peas
- Mushrooms
- Shrimp
- Grass-fed Beef
- Sardines
- Collard Greens
- Cauliflower

You know what else contains Choline? Lecithin. Do you know where Lecithin is used? In food, lots of foods! It's used to keep the ingredients together. It's also used by men in very high doses to increase ejaculate volume.

THE STUDY HAS SEVERAL FLAWS:

The study also states that regular meat eaters' gut bacteria produce a "burst" of TMAO after consuming L-Carnitine. Vegans and vegetarians' gut bacteria does not. Would you like to know how many vegan subjects this was tested on? ONE vegan. That's right, ONE person. The other 5 were all meat eaters. Furthermore; there was no mention of the condition of these subjects. No health-related reports whatsoever.

To add to that, the study never gives details on the meat used on test subjects. They're not all made equal, you know. We would need to breakdown that study with a clear distinction between grass-fed organic meat, and concentrated feeding operations that use hormones and other injections to prevent disease and "fatten" force-fed-cattle.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

L-Carnitine is not only safe, but it is good for you and certainly not a cause of heart disease. The opposite, rather. Another study was done that documents a significant reduction in heart-related disease. This can be found here. There is no real evidence in the flawed-TMAO-study. Frankly, I don't think it should be called a study, but an article and personal opinion, rather.

Carnitine is very close to the B vitamin group, it's structure however, is the reason it's labeled an Amino-Acid. L-Carnitine acts as a "Vehicle" for fatty acids, which are burned for energy. That's its main purpose. This is why it's marketed so much as a major energy source, and the "malate" version is used widely and in high doses by athletes.

The reason it's used as part of a fat-loss diet is because it uses your fat for energy. It great for your muscles, too. Muscular dystrophy has been associated with it's deficiency.

Carnitine is produced by the body if your tissue contains sufficient amounts of B1, Lysine, iron and more... which a lot don't, making supplementation necessary.

I will continue to consume 3000 mg of L-Carnitine daily. As I have been for many years.
 
Good points doc, I read the actual study and it's considerably flawed. It was a protected PDF file and it expired so I'm not able to share it.

The study states that red meat contains L-Carnitine which converts to TMAO (trimethylamine-N-oxide), which is the ONLY culprit behind clogged arteries, and nothing else. Furthermore, Carnitine promotes growth of bacteria that produces TMAO. And that's the link to heart disease from consuming red meat.

Of course, as a heavy L-Carnitine user myself, I had to do some research on my own. So from the study, we can conclude that regardless of the original source, TMAO is what's causing damage. So let's look at some flaws in the study.

WHY SINGLE OUT RED MEAT?

So they don't want us to eat red meat. No problem. I can do that. But wait! L-Carnitine can't possibly only exist in red meat, right? Here is a list of SOME foods containing L-Carnitine:

- Beef
- Pork
- Chicken
- Milk
- Venison
- Lamb
- Duck
- Ice Cream
- Cheese
- Avocado
- Asparagus

So you see, we're looking at meats of all colors, dairy and even vegetables. Wouldn't it make more sense to study L-Carnitine in food, and IF it in fact is dangerous, to list the foods to be cautious of in order of highest content? Well, the answer is yes, to me. But to the publishers of that study, it's an obvious NO. Why? Because they can't print a study that says "Stop Eating Everything!". That wouldn't go over so well. It's human nature to develop anxiety when presented with too many things to consider. Narrowing it down to 1 or 2 items makes for a better point. Think of shopping for sunglasses, if you had to choose between 3, it's easy. But choosing between 200 sunglasses, you'd lose interest quickly. This was more an "attention getting" tactic.

By the way, TMAO exists without the need for L-Carnitine. Fish belonging to the "gadoid" family, contains TMAO, such as codfish.

L-CARNITINE IS NOT THE ONLY THING THAT RESULTS IN TMAO:

Choline is another one. Want to know what contains Choline? It's in your fridge, you had it for breakfast... EGGS! So should we stop eating eggs? I personally think not.

Let's have a look at more foods containing Choline:

- Chicken
- Turkey
- Tomatoes
- Brussel Sprouts
- Scallops
- Green Beans
- Peas
- Mushrooms
- Shrimp
- Grass-fed Beef
- Sardines
- Collard Greens
- Cauliflower

You know what else contains Choline? Lecithin. Do you know where Lecithin is used? In food, lots of foods! It's used to keep the ingredients together. It's also used by men in very high doses to increase ejaculate volume.

THE STUDY HAS SEVERAL FLAWS:

The study also states that regular meat eaters' gut bacteria produce a "burst" of TMAO after consuming L-Carnitine. Vegans and vegetarians' gut bacteria does not. Would you like to know how many vegan subjects this was tested on? ONE vegan. That's right, ONE person. The other 5 were all meat eaters. Furthermore; there was no mention of the condition of these subjects. No health-related reports whatsoever.

To add to that, the study never gives details on the meat used on test subjects. They're not all made equal, you know. We would need to breakdown that study with a clear distinction between grass-fed organic meat, and concentrated feeding operations that use hormones and other injections to prevent disease and "fatten" force-fed-cattle.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

L-Carnitine is not only safe, but it is good for you and certainly not a cause of heart disease. The opposite, rather. Another study was done that documents a significant reduction in heart-related disease. This can be found here. There is no real evidence in the flawed-TMAO-study. Frankly, I don't think it should be called a study, but an article and personal opinion, rather.

Carnitine is very close to the B vitamin group, it's structure however, is the reason it's labeled an Amino-Acid. L-Carnitine acts as a "Vehicle" for fatty acids, which are burned for energy. That's its main purpose. This is why it's marketed so much as a major energy source, and the "malate" version is used widely and in high doses by athletes.

The reason it's used as part of a fat-loss diet is because it uses your fat for energy. It great for your muscles, too. Muscular dystrophy has been associated with it's deficiency.

Carnitine is produced by the body if your tissue contains sufficient amounts of B1, Lysine, iron and more... which a lot don't, making supplementation necessary.

I will continue to consume 3000 mg of L-Carnitine daily. As I have been for many years.

My aunt is a naturopath so I knew some of those foods you listed contained L-Carnitine, but wow, that's an extensive list to "cut out" if the researchers were adamant about their findings ;). Some of the stuff you listed I wouldn't even think contained it. Nice job in compiling that list!!

It's just like with dietary fats. They demonize saturated fat and transfats when they're found naturally in food. Saturated fat is beneficial (in sane amounts) and transfats are found naturally in steak and beef. Artificial transfats are a no-no though. But like you say, it's easier to make saturated fats out to be the "bad guy" and not mon and poly etc when they all have health effects when taken in too high amounts n

Choline can be beneficial and I would not stop consumption of meats or eggs ever lol but the link you found to eggs is on the money. Lecithin is used as an emulsifier is it not (I see where you said that now).

I saw how they fed the one began a 200g sirloin steak and thought only one hahaha. I understand why they'd refuse to eat it but a sample of 1 is hardly grounds for any sort of link.

All in all a very succinct and informative critique Austinite. :bigok: two thumbs up
 
well said man....very sad story
My condolences to the family, but this article has a pretty sad slant on things. Dianabol was just listed as one of the causes of his death. I'd like to know the others as while I still think the young guys need to stay away - I don't like misinformation being given by the media either. I hate it when we're not given the entire picture. Was he taking DNP/Clen/T3 and dbol? That makes a pretty big difference imo.

Either way, hate seeing another person die before their time. :(
 
I thought there was a study done in the late 60s connecting low potassium and heart attack or risknof heart attack not high cholesterol or platelets. Maybe am wrong.
 
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