My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful Cycle

Ok. Thanks nightmare. But I would really appreciate the actual science behind the objections. Without it, I really can't agree.

Aromasin does not prevent new enzymes from developing, but again, the success of the cycle in mention is based on following the steps correctly. I agree that issues could arise, but only if they fail to follow the steps.

PCT with your protocol is fine, I have no issues with it, but I still don't see any science why the introduced protocol is inferior. I'd love to understand why lowering Clomid by 25mg week 1 and increasing Nolva 20mg week 2 will result in superior results...

Again, regardless of ester, suppression begins almost instantly, I've provided detailed science backing this up. The brain is very smart and recognizes testosterone and reacts immediately, regardless of ester. Waiting for complete shut down is disastrous in my opinion.

But regarding hCG, I read your post but I was asking about the science behind the claims. Your post also says hCG is not needed at all so that threw me off considerably. (I'm sure you understand why the science is important to me, I can't just take someones word for it)

Anyway, I really appreciate the feedback. Hopefully folks can make informed decisions with all the info available.

DreyDay, welcome back!!
 
palmers said:
holy shit!!!!!!!! lol... so I should be eating 4300/d eh?
Click to expand...

An easy way to test it is start off eating 3500 cals/day. If after 1-2wks you haven gained any weight then you've found your TDEE. If you lose weight increase by 200-500cals depending on how much you lost. If you gain weight do the opposite. I'm assuming you're bulking so start off with a moderate 10-20% caloric surplus than adjust from there based on results and goals.

You and I started off with similar stats. I was 5'10" @~190lbs pre-cycle. Now I'm 215ish lbs and need 4500cals just to keep this weight on and I have an active job as well.
 
Austinite said:
Ok. Thanks nightmare. But I would really appreciate the actual science behind the objections. Without it, I really can't agree.

Aromasin does not prevent new enzymes from developing, but again, the success of the cycle in mention is based on following the steps correctly. I agree that issues could arise, but only if they fail to follow the steps.

post cycle therapy (pct) with your protocol is fine, I have no issues with it, but I still don't see any science why the introduced protocol is inferior. I'd love to understand why lowering Clomid by 25mg week 1 and increasing Nolva 20mg week 2 will result in superior results...
Again, regardless of ester, suppression begins almost instantly, I've provided detailed science backing this up. The brain is very smart and recognizes testosterone and reacts immediately, regardless of ester. Waiting for complete shut down is disastrous in my opinion.

But regarding hCG, I read your post but I was asking about the science behind the claims. Yourpost also says hCG is not needed at all so that threw me off considerably. (I'm sure you understand why the science is important to me, I can't just take someones word for it)

Anyway, I really appreciate the feedback. Hopefully folks can make informed decisions with all the
info available.

DreyDay, welcome back!!
Click to expand...

As I said there's no method set in stone man and hcg is not a given necessity as the body can still recover with a good enough dosing protocol but as I've mentioned it helps a great deal I. Speeding up recovery...I wasn't trying to bash on you or anything man just my thoughts
I'm giving your dosing protocol a shot soon man and if it works better(determined by blood) I hope you don't mind if I add it to my post :)
Like everyone here I'm always willing to Learn something new
Also wrt science there's no evidence saying that hcg is a must when cycling man but there's evidence wrt to it's ability to improve htpa recovery thats y I've mentioned that I highly recommend
using it

And with your post cycle therapy (pct) protocol I just mentioned the protocol I follow

Your friend,
Nightmare
 
DreDay187 said:
Why would you think you can't run any serms alongside adex??

The body constantly makes new aromatase enzymes so you'll still make estrogen even with exemstane. Exemestane being steroidal in nature could interfere with recovery if ran during post cycle therapy (pct) but this isn't a problem with adex bc it isn't steroidal.

HCG will make a difference from day one as well. Suppression starts almost immediately when you start a cycle. That last bit about making a difference starting in wk 5 doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna give this hcg protocol a shot with my next cycle y don't yu try running a serm like clomid adex for your next cycle
 
Nightmare007 said:
I'm gonna give this hcg protocol a shot with my next cycle y don't yu try running a serm like clomid adex for your next cycle
Click to expand...

I actually just finished my cycle and am waiting a few more days to start post cycle therapy (pct) of Nolva/clomid and my on cycle Aromatase inhibitor (AI) was arimidex. I've seen testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocols where both were prescribed together so I'm not understanding what you're trying to tell me here?

Edit* I don't plan on using the adex in post cycle therapy (pct) UNLESS estrogen is high I should add
 
----------------------------------------------

Nightmare007 said:
As I said there's no method set in stone man and hcg is not a given necessity as the body can still recover with a good enough dosing protocol but as I've mentioned it helps a great deal I. Speeding up recovery...I wasn't trying to bash on you or anything man just my thoughts
I'm giving your dosing protocol a shot soon man and if it works better(determined by blood) I hope you don't mind if I add it to my post :)
Like everyone here I'm always willing to Learn something new
Also wrt science there's no evidence saying that hcg is a must when cycling man but there's evidence wrt to it's ability to improve htpa recovery thats y I've mentioned that I highly recommend
using it

And with your PCT protocol I just mentioned the protocol I follow

Your friend,
Nightmare
Click to expand...
Science 100% proves, without a doubt, that suppression begins from day 1 such as cases with secondary hypogonadism. This is really not questionable, there are 100's of studies. Testicular type suppression, such as primary hypogonadism to follow. We cannot dismiss the secondary. This is set in stone now. It's been proven and people are treated based on these 2 types. . Shut down happens not only in Testicals, but in your brain and other organs. Pituitary, hypothalamus, etc... are all affected.

I know there are no studies on cycling, I'm discussing science in regards to suppression.

Anyway, I won't talk about this anymore, I've provided lots of evidence. Hopefully you will see the science I'm providing one day.

Nightmare, I never once thought that you were bashing my post. I am always happy to discuss anything. That's why I'm here. I want to learn just as much as everyone else. I always enjoy interaction with you :) -- we just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Thanks buddy.
 
Austinite said:
Science 100% proves, without a doubt, that suppression begins from day 1 such as cases with secondary hypogonadism. This is really not questionable, there are 100's of studies. Testicular type suppression, such as primary hypogonadism to follow. We cannot dismiss the secondary. This is set in stone now. It's been proven and people are treated based on these 2 types. . Shut down happens not only in Testicals, but in your brain and other organs. Pituitary, hypothalamus, etc... are all affected.

I know there are no studies on cycling, I'm discussing science in regards to suppression.

Anyway, I won't talk about this anymore, I've provided lots of evidence. Hopefully you will see the science I'm providing one day.
Nightmare, I never once thought that you were bashing my post. I am always happy to discuss anything. That's why I'm here. I want to learn just as much as everyone else. I always enjoy interaction with you :) -- we just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Thanks buddy.
Click to expand...

It's. Always good to learn something new
Thanks buddy
 
This should be the front page of the forum, just the first post here splayed across a splash page that everyone has to read before accessing the discussions. Tremendous info here boss, much appreciated for taking the time to dial it all in.
 
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