18 years former obese low T?

[LowEnergy]

Soo, I am new to the forum and I'd like to know if I should think about TRT. First my "story". I grew up obese untill 16 and then decided to go on a diet. I was 5'7 and 240 pounds of fatness. I went on a crash diet for 4 months and lost ~90 pounds reaching a state of skinnyfat. I knew nothing about nutrition and blindly followed a diet called dukan which is a low-fat diet. I had days of less than 500 calories of food.
One year later I decided I still look bad and started going to the gym 4-5 days a week and bulking. My strength gains were subpar, I still can't bench 120 pounds at a bw of 175 and I look pretty much the same except fatter. I started feeling tired, weak and apathetic towards most things during the diet and after but still had some motivation to go the gym, whatever it takes, right? mind over matter? oh well.

I now feel nothing? (not trying to be edgy or something but I feel apathetic), tired most of the time (especially afternoon), my gym progress was and is really low despite a relatively good training method and nutrition (Atleast I think so, -I calculate all my food intake on MFP, have been eating atleast 1lb protein/bw for a year, doing a bb split after my strength gains on SS stopped.) No motivation to go out with friends and moody like a little bitch. I am not depressed, I think I am not atleast, not bad thoughts and stuff like that. This is not that important tho, ever since the diet I stopped seeing girls like sexual objects? I look at pretty ones as art and don't feel attracted to none and I am not gay neither. My sexual drive is nonexistent. I can get a boner but it's hard (pun intended) to do it, not sure if I still have morning wood, it happens only when I wake up needing to pee.

Looked on the internet for these symptoms and saw something testosterone related but I didn't give it many thoughts since I am 18 and not fat and doing stuff the right way? I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, eat a lot of "bad" food, sleep right (not that right lately, have been having sleeping problems since the blood test) and go to the gym constantly. Anyway, I had a general blood test and decided to add in Free Testosterone and Total testosterone alongside usual things and thyroid.
Everything came right, PERFECT, actually. Except my testosterone. The results were "in range" but what range? range of a woman? My total testosterone was 400ng/ml in a 160-700 laboratory range which is in range but still lowish. My free testosterone was even worse, 4.4pg/ml (yes, four) in a 4-40 laboratory range.
I think the lab ranges are bad where I took since I found info online how 12 years old girls have <5pg/ml free testosterone.

Now I became a bit obsessed with this and have been researching everything about it finding how being obese and/or starvation crash diets cause secondary hypogonadism. My thyroid is fine, everything else is. Doctors think it's all in my mind and don't want to entertain my observation on hypogonadism.

What should I do? seek out other endocrinologists? stop thinking about it and live like this? Those levels are after sleeping 8h+ a night, supplementing vitamin D3,ZMA and fish oil and a high fat diet. I really started thinking about TRT but I don't know if its the right thing at this age despite it might be what will fix me..
I know exogenous testosterone will shutdown my own productions and cause testicular atrophy and other minor problems but the benefits seem to outweigh the detriments. I want to be attracted to girls again like I used to when I was obese but couldn't get a girlfriend because of being obese, now I can get one but I don't feel the need to. And I am not going to hide my reasons away. I want muscle and strength gains. I want to be big and my body is not doing that right seeing NO progress after 1 year and a few months of training. Sorry for the long blog post and my poor english.

 

[halfape211]

Needless to say, a 500 calorie diet based on low fat is very unhealthy. I'm unsure what kind of diet you are on, but I wonder if you are presently causing your problems due to lack of nutrients. Can you give us a rough idea of what diet you are on, calories, grams of protein per day (If you know it). It's really good that you are trying to improve, but you may need some guidance and help before you harm yourself even more. Generally, my opinion is that a 400 TT level causes Low T symptoms in many people, but perhaps the cause of the low T can be fixed (if diet, etc). Testosterone may be your only answer in the end, but you're only 18, so??

 

[LowEnergy]

I haven't been in a deficit for a few months now but I feel the same. I usually get 120g of protein from skinless boneless chicken breast and get to about 165g of protein a day. My fat sources are peanuts, peanut butter, milk and other saturated fats. No calorie drinks, sometimes diet coke. Calories have been ~3400 for the last 4 months. I eat cereals in the morning sometimes and ocasionally fill the rest of my calories with carbs. My total test is low but free test is even lower. I think TRT may be the answer since its not a dietary, sleeping or training related issue.

 

[halfape211]

I haven't been in a deficit for a few months now but I feel the same. I usually get 120g of protein from skinless boneless chicken breast and get to about 165g of protein a day. My fat sources are peanuts, peanut butter, milk and other saturated fats. No calorie drinks, sometimes diet coke. Calories have been ~3400 for the last 4 months. I eat cereals in the morning sometimes and ocasionally fill the rest of my calories with carbs. My total test is low but free test is even lower. I think TRT may be the answer since its not a dietary, sleeping or training related issue.

Excellent, you are not on a starvation diet. I'm assuming you are not on a whacky food regime where you are getting deprived of nutrients. So I would tend to agree with you, but since you are only 18, I will defer to other more senior members who will join in shortly.

 

[LowEnergy]

Excellent, you are not on a starvation diet. I'm assuming you are not on a whacky food regime where you are getting deprived of nutrients. So I would tend to agree with you, but since you are only 18, I will defer to other more senior members who will join in shortly.

Thank you. I don't think I am deprived of any nutrients, I eat fruits, vegetables and other types of meat and I also supplement with a multivitamin besides ZMA, fish oil.
I hope it's not testosterone but it fits every symptom and the results were low for my age. I sleep 10 hours sometimes and at the end of my classes I feel like dead, my vision gets blurry, can't concentrate either. My bones are starting to hurt from walking now which is weird since I am not obese or something, could this be a sign of osteoporosis ? I think I should test my Fh, estradiol and fsh too so I could see if its primary or secondary hypogonadism. I did get hit in the head a few times but it was before the weight loss and I felt better then. Fuck I remember having a crush on this girl and it was so vivid, now I don't even get oneitis anymore.

 

[Milton]

Your 18 years old work on your diet and think it through.

 

[halfape211]

there are lots of potential causes for your medical problems. Not everything is caused by low testosterone. I just noticed the lab range of 160-700. Seems a little on the low side for any adult population and odd that a nice round number is the top number. And in which case you are actually in the top half of that range, so maybe not so low. Are you getting enough fat? calcium? etc? Like Milton said: "think it through".

 

[halfwit]

Thank you. I don't think I am deprived of any nutrients, I eat fruits, vegetables and other types of meat and I also supplement with a multivitamin besides ZMA, fish oil.
I hope it's not testosterone but it fits every symptom and the results were low for my age. I sleep 10 hours sometimes and at the end of my classes I feel like dead, my vision gets blurry, can't concentrate either. My bones are starting to hurt from walking now which is weird since I am not obese or something, could this be a sign of osteoporosis ? I think I should test my Fh, estradiol and fsh too so I could see if its primary or secondary hypogonadism. I did get hit in the head a few times but it was before the weight loss and I felt better then. Fuck I remember having a crush on this girl and it was so vivid, now I don't even get oneitis anymore.

Get a sleep study done. I would imagine that you still have some mass in your chest, and being male already puts you at higher risk. If you have sleep apnea, it will cause a cascade of hormone depletion, starting with adrenal fatigue, and hypothyroidism. Eventually, this will bring down testosterone (free being the part your body actually uses), which further compounds things.

You say everything came out perfect; mind posting up your numbers? I had doctors run everything under the sun BUT testosterone for many years, and all the tell-tale signs of hypogonadism were there - they just simply didn't know. The problem is that many only look at one or two markers, and make a judgement call. TSH being the metric many use, that means relatively little if the problem lies elsewhere with the thyroid. (T3/T4/FT3 being the big ones)

You can check cortisol in the meantime, which is a pain to do as it usually encompasses the majority of a day - but it can help you determine if you're facing adrenal problems or not.

TRT is a godsend if needed, but it's also a life-sentence to the needle once you've been on long enough. I would urge you to rule everything else out FIRST, then dig in and fight if that is the ONLY option left.

Welcome to ology.

My .02c

 

[LowEnergy]

Get a sleep study done. I would imagine that you still have some mass in your chest, and being male already puts you at higher risk. If you have sleep apnea, it will cause a cascade of hormone depletion, starting with adrenal fatigue, and hypothyroidism. Eventually, this will bring down testosterone (free being the part your body actually uses), which further compounds things.

You say everything came out perfect; mind posting up your numbers? I had doctors run everything under the sun BUT testosterone for many years, and all the tell-tale signs of hypogonadism were there - they just simply didn't know. The problem is that many only look at one or two markers, and make a judgement call. TSH being the metric many use, that means relatively little if the problem lies elsewhere with the thyroid. (T3/T4/FT3 being the big ones)

You can check cortisol in the meantime, which is a pain to do as it usually encompasses the majority of a day - but it can help you determine if you're facing adrenal problems or not.

TRT is a godsend if needed, but it's also a life-sentence to the needle once you've been on long enough. I would urge you to rule everything else out FIRST, then dig in and fight if that is the ONLY option left.

Welcome to ology.

My .02c

Oh damn should've thought about that too, she did only test a small amount of things related to the thyroid, TSH was 1.8 in a 0.5-6 range and T3 was 0.8 in 06-1.8 range. My temperatures are stable tho so I don't think I am hypotyhroid.
I will ask for a cortisol test and sleep study next time alongside LH, FSH, Estradiol and SHBG. I am more concerned about the free testosterone tbh, I mean as I found on a website this is the level of a 12 years old girl? I hope the ranges are just wrong and I don't share that much with a 12 years old girl .

 

[LowEnergy]

Your 18 years old work on your diet and think it through.

I will work on my diet and think more about it, maybe take a test in a few months again to be sure. I can't just blindly take this decision for my entire life.

 

[daleb]

If you want to save a little money they make smartphone sleep monitor programs. They wont tell you if you have apnea, but they will give you a clue as to how well you are sleeping. I used to use Sleep As Android. Apple has a few good ones too. I would use the app for a week, see what it looks like. You will be able to see if you stop breathing for a bit, or snore loudly. Other things that can affect sleep are waking up to piss at night, and eating too much before sleep. I try to goto bed around 11pm and wake up at 630am. I have my last meal of the day no later than 630pm. Employing this strategy most nights I can sleep though the night without having to piss.

To properly evaluate the thyroid you need Free T3, Free T4, and TSH. Im not sure if the results you posted were free or total t3 and t4. 1.8 is a decent TSH reading, optimal is 1.

 

[halfwit]

Oh damn should've thought about that too, she did only test a small amount of things related to the thyroid, TSH was 1.8 in a 0.5-6 range and T3 was 0.8 in 06-1.8 range. My temperatures are stable tho so I don't think I am hypotyhroid.
I will ask for a cortisol test and sleep study next time alongside LH, FSH, Estradiol and SHBG. I am more concerned about the free testosterone tbh, I mean as I found on a website this is the level of a 12 years old girl? I hope the ranges are just wrong and I don't share that much with a 12 years old girl .

T3 is the hormone that actually does the work, so if that's at the bottom of the scale, I can only imagine what the free portion looks like (active part from the pool - like testosterone). Temperature fluctuations are just a symptom, not everyone gets them.

The ranges are correct, but you're on the path to discover WHY they are that way. It could be something very simple that requires a small change, or something more drastic - point is, you'll find your answer as long as you don't give up.

FWIW: I had a total testosterone lower than a pubescent female at the age of 34, so I know what it feels like to hear that.

 

[LowEnergy]

I will implement some changes in the way I eat and train. Maybe I am overtraining and that is causing me fatigue, I jumped from a 3 days a week routine to 6 and that might not be healthy for naturals. I can't really go on TRT in this country, that part of medicine is archaic at best in my country doctors only prescribing androgel or nebido once every 12 weeks. My total test would also have to be below 170 twice to even get prescribed test.
My cholesterol levels were a bit low and that is a precursor to testosterone afaik, I will start losing the fat I have left. I am ~22%bf, add more fat in my diet and cut 1 leg day out of my training or both and do legs once every 2 weeks.
Could try some Clomid and see where that goes, it can't shut me down.

 

[halfape211]

I will implement some changes in the way I eat and train. Maybe I am overtraining and that is causing me fatigue, I jumped from a 3 days a week routine to 6 and that might not be healthy for naturals. I can't really go on TRT in this country, that part of medicine is archaic at best in my country doctors only prescribing androgel or nebido once every 12 weeks. My total test would also have to be below 170 twice to even get prescribed test.
My cholesterol levels were a bit low and that is a precursor to testosterone afaik, I will start losing the fat I have left. I am ~22%bf, add more fat in my diet and cut 1 leg day out of my training or both and do legs once every 2 weeks.
Could try some Clomid and see where that goes, it can't shut me down.

what is your reasoning for the clomid??

BTW lowenergy, I wanted to really congratulate you for losing 90 pounds. That is really a big deal. Most people in this world cannot accomplish that. If you can do that, you can probably do anything you set your mind too.

 

[LowEnergy]

what is your reasoning for the clomid??

BTW lowenergy, I wanted to really congratulate you for losing 90 pounds. That is really a big deal. Most people in this world cannot accomplish that. If you can do that, you can probably do anything you set your mind too.

I've been reading online on how clomid can increase testosterone levels without many downsides. Not quite sure but the studies say that, maybe I could somehow restore my natural testosterone production but I doubt it. I really need to get a full hormone panel to know what is the problem exactly.

Thanks.. I wish I didn't had to lose it tho and that I had better knowledge regarding proper cutting

 

[halfape211]

Clomid is above my expertise. Hopefully some one will comment on your post about the use of Clomid in this instance.

 

[halfwit]

I will implement some changes in the way I eat and train. Maybe I am overtraining and that is causing me fatigue, I jumped from a 3 days a week routine to 6 and that might not be healthy for naturals. I can't really go on TRT in this country, that part of medicine is archaic at best in my country doctors only prescribing androgel or nebido once every 12 weeks. My total test would also have to be below 170 twice to even get prescribed test.
My cholesterol levels were a bit low and that is a precursor to testosterone afaik, I will start losing the fat I have left. I am ~22%bf, add more fat in my diet and cut 1 leg day out of my training or both and do legs once every 2 weeks.
Could try some Clomid and see where that goes, it can't shut me down.

Clomid is a temporary fix if and only if your pituitary even responds. The drug also carries with it inherent side effects that you will want to look into. I suggest you continue researching potential causes (yes, low fat diets can mess things up) instead of trying to bandage fix things.

Clomid will only give you an increase within normal values in a best case scenario, and there is the potential for pituitary desensitization over long periods of time. This defeats the purpose of long-term treatment imo.