22, Low T, looking for advice

[hydro23]

Age :22
Height : 5"9
Weight :171.0
-Endomorph, hairy chest, able to grow facial hair
-No major health conditions to report of. Symtpoms of, Low energry, fatigue, low libido and sex drive, mental awareness/ fog, irritability. Sleep of around 7 hours, wake up feeling refreshed then within a few hours feeling tired.
-No Rx or OTC drugs currently
Past OTC : Ginger 550mg TID, DAA 3G daily, Zinc 50mg daily, Vitamin D3 5000iu daily (Dosed from September 2015 to December 2015 then stopped)
SNS Bulbine (Dosed 11/14/15 to 1/14/16)
Alpha Jym by Jim Stoppani (Dosed 2/17 to 3/17)
Alpha by Core Nutritionals (Dosed 4/28 - 5/28)

9/22/15-- Morning Test Fasted (Can't Remember exact time)
SHBG : 20 (10-57)
TT : 397 (241 - 827)
TF : 9.99 (5 - 21)
Albumin : 4.6 (3- 4.6)

11/13/15-- 7-8 AM Test fasted
E2 : 27.9 (0 - 39.8)
FSH : 2.5 (1.4 - 18.1)
LH : 1.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
SHBG : 19 (10 - 57)
TT : 435 (241 - 827)
TF : 11.12 (5 - 21)
Albumin : 4.7 (3 - 4.6)

3/10/16-- 2pm test not-fasted
LH : 2.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
TT : 367 (241 - 827)

3/17/16 -- 7 AM Test Fasted
LH : 3.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
SHBG : 28 (10 - 57)
TT : 465 (241 - 827)
TF : 10.78 (5 - 21)
Albumin : 4.2 (3 - 4.6)

5/28/16-- 7 AM test fasted
LH : 2.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
SHBG : 24 (10 - 57)
TT : 358 (241 - 827)
TF : 8.33 (5 - 21)
Albumin : 4.5 (3 - 4.6)

6/10/16 - 730 Am fasted
DHEA-S : 266.9 (89 - 457)
E2 : 28.1 (0 - 39.8)
FSH : 2.1 (1.4 - 18.1)
LH : 2.3 (1.5 - 9.3)
Prolactin : 9.1 (2.1 - 17.7)
SHBG : 24 (10 - 57)
TT : 336 (241 - 827)
TF : 7.76 (5 - 21)
Albumin : 4.5 (3 - 4.6)
TSH : 1.161 (0.350 - 5.500) (ordered the wrong thyroid test)

CBC Test
WBC : 5.25 (2.9 - 11.6)
RBC : 4.98 (4.7 - 5.9)
Hgb : 15.2 (14 - 17.1)
HCT : 43.8 % (36.3 - 52.3)
MCV : 88.0 (80.1 - 97.8)
MCH : 30.5 (24.4 - 32.60)
MCHC : 34.68 (31 - 37)
RDW : 13.3 % (10.8 - 14.1)
PLT : 197 (118 - 422)
MPV : 8.7 (6.5 - 13.5)
Neutrophils (ANC) : 2.45 (1.5 - 7.7)
Lymphocytes : 2.41 (0.10 - 2.60)
Monocytes : .28 (.10 - .80)
Eosinophils : .10 (0 - 0.6)
Basophils : .02 (0 - 0.1)
% Neutrophils : 46.7 (39.9 - 74.7)
% Lymphocytes : 45.9 (14.6 - 43.7)
% Monocytes : 5.3 (3.9 - 11.8)
% Eosinophils : 1.9 (0.7 - 7.5)
% Basophils : 0.4 (0 - 2)

CMP Test
Sodium : 141 (131 - 147)
Potassium : 4.3 (3.7 - 5.3)
Chloride : 106 (97 - 111)
Carbon Dioxide : 29 (17 - 35)
Glucose : 89 (73 - 99)
Urea nitrogen : 23 (6 - 24)
Creatinine : 0.89 (.5 - 1.2)
Urea Nitrogen/Creatinine : 26 (<= 20)
eGFR : >90 (>60)
Calcium : 9.6 (8.3 - 10.6)
Protein Total : 8 (5.7 - 8.3)
Albumin : 4.5 (3 - 4.6)
Bilirubin : 0.7 (0.3 - 1.2)
ALP : 93 (46 - 116)
ALT : 30 (8 - 41)
AST : 28 (0 - 35)

Lipid Panel
Triglycerides : 91 (<=149)
Cholesterol Total : 115 (<200)
HDL-C : 33 (>60)
Direct LDL : 71 (<100)

**All Tests have been a venous draw through theranos clinics located inside Walgreens.
**I have not sat down with an MD yet, but looking into finding the right MD (located in AZ)
**Mom has thyroid problems (not sure if hypo or hyper)

-Currently in a deficit (have been since around middle of february). Yes I understand caloric deficit will lower levels. But before I was in a deficit I was maintenance then a few month bulk.
-3X Week weight training, 3x Week cardio ( 2 HIIT and 1 MISS)

I have read Jay Campbell's TRT book and learned a lot. Self - diagnose as secondary with many symptoms of low T. Looking into TRT, but wanting to possibly try other alternatives first, possible such as clomid or aromasin. Just looking for advice, wanting to know as much as possible before going into my doc appointment on tuesday.

If any questions feel free to ask away

-Jordan

 

[hydro23]

Age : 22
=Height : 5"9
Weight : 171.0
-Endomorph, hairy chest, able to grow facial hair
-No major health conditions to report of. Symtpoms of, Low energry, fatigue, low libido and sex drive, mental awareness/ fog, irritability. Sleep of around 7 hours, wake up feeling refreshed then within a few hours feeling tired.
-No Rx or OTC drugs currently
Past OTC : Ginger 550mg TID, DAA 3G daily, Zinc 50mg daily, Vitamin D3 5000iu daily (Dosed from September 2015 to December 2015 then stopped)
SNS Bulbine (Dosed 11/14/15 to 1/14/16)
Alpha Jym by Jim Stoppani (Dosed 2/17 to 3/17)
Alpha by Core Nutritionals (Dosed 4/28 - 5/28)
9/22/15-- Morning Test Fasted (Can't Remember exact time)
SHBG : 20 (10-57)
TT : 397 (241 - 827)
TF : 9.99 (5 - 21)
Albumin : 4.6 (3- 4.6)

11/13/15-- 7-8 AM Test fasted
E2 : 27.9 (0 - 39.8)
FSH : 2.5 (1.4 - 18.1)
LH : 1.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
SHBG : 19 (10 - 57)
TT : 435 (241 - 827)
TF : 11.12 (5 - 21)
Albumin : 4.7 (3 - 4.6)

3/10/16-- 2pm test not-fasted
LH : 2.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
TT : 367 (241 - 827)

3/17/16 -- 7 AM Test Fasted
LH : 3.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
SHBG : 28 (10 - 57)
TT : 465 (241 - 827)
TF : 10.78 (5 - 21)
Albumin : 4.2 (3 - 4.6)

5/28/16-- 7 AM test fasted
LH : 2.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
SHBG : 24 (10 - 57)
TT : 358 (241 - 827)
TF : 8.33 (5 - 21)
Albumin : 4.5 (3 - 4.6)

6/10/16 730 AM Fasted
DHEA-S : 266.9 (89 - 457)
E2 : 28.1 (0 - 39.8)
FSH : 2.1 (1.4 - 18.1)
LH : 2.3 (1.5 - 9.3)
Prolactin : 9.1 (2.1 - 17.7)
SHBG : 24 (10 - 57)
TT : 336 (241 - 827)
TF : 7.76 (5 - 21)
Albumin : 4.5 (3 - 4.6)
TSH : 1.161 (0.350 - 5.500) (ordered the wrong thyroid test)

CBC Test
WBC : 5.25 (2.9 - 11.6)
RBC : 4.98 (4.7 - 5.9)
Hgb : 15.2 (14 - 17.1)
HCT : 43.8 % (36.3 - 52.3)
MCV : 88.0 (80.1 - 97.8)
MCH : 30.5 (24.4 - 32.60)
MCHC : 34.68 (31 - 37)
RDW : 13.3 % (10.8 - 14.1)
PLT : 197 (118 - 422)
MPV : 8.7 (6.5 - 13.5)
Neutrophils (ANC) : 2.45 (1.5 - 7.7)
Lymphocytes : 2.41 (0.10 - 2.60)
Monocytes : .28 (.10 - .80)
Eosinophils : .10 (0 - 0.6)
Basophils : .02 (0 - 0.1)
% Neutrophils : 46.7 (39.9 - 74.7)
% Lymphocytes : 45.9 (14.6 - 43.7)
% Monocytes : 5.3 (3.9 - 11.8)
% Eosinophils : 1.9 (0.7 - 7.5)
% Basophils : 0.4 (0 - 2)

CMP Test
Sodium : 141 (131 - 147)
Potassium : 4.3 (3.7 - 5.3)
Chloride : 106 (97 - 111)
Carbon Dioxide : 29 (17 - 35)
Glucose : 89 (73 - 99)
Urea nitrogen : 23 (6 - 24)
Creatinine : 0.89 (.5 - 1.2)
Urea Nitrogen/Creatinine : 26 (<= 20)
eGFR : >90 (>60)
Calcium : 9.6 (8.3 - 10.6)
Protein Total : 8 (5.7 - 8.3)
Albumin : 4.5 (3 - 4.6)
Bilirubin : 0.7 (0.3 - 1.2)
ALP : 93 (46 - 116)
ALT : 30 (8 - 41)
AST : 28 (0 - 35)

Lipid Panel
Triglycerides : 91 (<=149)
Cholesterol Total : 115 (<200)
HDL-C : 33 (>60)
Direct LDL : 71 (<100)

**All Tests have been a venous draw through theranos clinics located inside Walgreens.
**I have not sat down with an MD yet, but looking into finding the right MD (located in AZ)
**Mom has thyroid problems (not sure if hypo or hyper)

-Currently in a deficit (have been since around middle of february). Yes I understand caloric deficit will lower levels. But before I was in a deficit I was maintenance then a few month bulk.
-3X Week weight training, 3x Week cardio ( 2 HIIT and 1 MISS)

I have read Jay Campbell's TRT book and learned a lot. Self - diagnose as secondary with many symptoms of low T. Looking into TRT, but wanting to possibly try other alternatives first, possible such as clomid or aromasin. Just looking for advice, wanting to be as informed as possible when I go meet with the doctor.

If any questions feel free to ask away

-Jordan

 

[IMT staff]

Not sure your hypogonadal. You don't have the symptoms to match what someone your age would be experiencing. Understand that the thyroid, adrenals and sex hormone production are all related.

It seems you are suppressed just saying you may be able to correct a small issue and get your T up.

Would like to see 24 hour urine and 4 point cortisol salivary to match that DHEA-s blood draw and plot.

 

[hydro23]

IMT ,

Thank you for the reply.

Few questions for you or for anyone willing to answer.

1) calorie deficit wouldn't play that big of a part in LH and FSH correct?
2) hypothetically, if the salivary test came back with same results as the blood draw, what do you think could be suppressing it? Also would there be a fix?

Thank you,
Jordan

 

[Batmann]

Your T is NOT too low. You should NOT think TRT first. Try a restart with.

My friend tried a restart with hCG and Clomid and his T level now is 670 ng/dl.

What he did is 1500 IU hCG M-W-F 2 weeks and then 12.5 mg clomid 45 days.

 

[halfwit]

You do seem suppressed by something. Ever had a sleep study done? Had a cortisol test done? I looked through your previous supplements, and none of them are known prohormones (just junk "test boosters" that don't, as you've seen, do anything) and your blood work does agree with your theory.

I'd check those out and get your vitamin D levels looked at. It might be that simple of a fix. This would be a good time to get a doctor involved, but be sure you attack it from the symptoms angle and what you're looking to get from this.

At your age, you face an uphill battle, especially if the words: muscle, fitness, fat loss, libido, girls, confidence, body building leave your mouth.

I know you've been trying to figure this out for awhile as I did much of the same thing, but hormones had never crossed my mind. Depression and anxiety won't do that to your pituitary by the way - so don't let a doctor blame those (with the obvious push towards drugs) for what's happening.

Be persistent and firm. If a doctor refuses to listen to you, find another. Be polite and thank them for their time as they DO communicate with each other, and you don't want a reputation for being a seeker. You have a legitimate concern, and while you're not clinically hypogonadal, you're not far from it - and can certainly tell that something isn't right.

If a few extra tests don't bear fruit, you can try a SERM restart, but if the underlying issue isn't solved, your levels will return to where they are now.

Keep us posted, and feel free to ask any questions you may have. I also suggest reading the FAQ at the top of this forum. There's a great deal of invaluable information to arm yourself with.

My .02c

 

[hydro23]

Your T is NOT too low. You should NOT think TRT first. Try a restart with.

My friend tried a restart with hCG and Clomid and his T level now is 670 ng/dl.

What he did is 1500 IU hCG M-W-F 2 weeks and then 12.5 mg clomid 45 days.

Read the last portion of my OP, i stated i wanted to try clomid or aromasin first. I want to get down to what is causing the problem instead of going straight into TRT

 

[hydro23]

You do seem suppressed by something. Ever had a sleep study done? Had a cortisol test done? I looked through your previous supplements, and none of them are known prohormones (just junk "test boosters" that don't, as you've seen, do anything) and your blood work does agree with your theory.

I'd check those out and get your vitamin D levels looked at. It might be that simple of a fix. This would be a good time to get a doctor involved, but be sure you attack it from the symptoms angle and what you're looking to get from this.

At your age, you face an uphill battle, especially if the words: muscle, fitness, fat loss, libido, girls, confidence, body building leave your mouth.

I know you've been trying to figure this out for awhile as I did much of the same thing, but hormones had never crossed my mind. Depression and anxiety won't do that to your pituitary by the way - so don't let a doctor blame those (with the obvious push towards drugs) for what's happening.

Be persistent and firm. If a doctor refuses to listen to you, find another. Be polite and thank them for their time as they DO communicate with each other, and you don't want a reputation for being a seeker. You have a legitimate concern, and while you're not clinically hypogonadal, you're not far from it - and can certainly tell that something isn't right.

If a few extra tests don't bear fruit, you can try a SERM restart, but if the underlying issue isn't solved, your levels will return to where they are now.

Keep us posted, and feel free to ask any questions you may have. I also suggest reading the FAQ at the top of this forum. There's a great deal of invaluable information to arm yourself with.

My .02c

halfwit, thank you for the reply.

No to the sleep study or cortisol test. Do you recommend salivary cortisol test?
Do you think an AI would work (exemstane, arimidex etc.)?
OR SERM & AI combo?

I'll take a look into the vitamin D test, see how that registers.
I know i ordered the wrong thyroid (I thought i was getting fT3 and fT4 done also)
Since my TSH is close to 1, do you think elevated or low levels of fT3 and fT4 would cause this problem?

Thank you again.

 

[hydro23]

moderator please delete this thread (duplicate thread already posted on accident)