22 YO / 5'7 / 146lbs /7 YEARS Exp. FRUSTRATED

I would say just talk to 3J bro...as long as you are as committed as you say you are, you will be fine...but if training and dieting with 3Js help dsnt work I would consider talking to ur Dr. about possible blood work...
And kudos for not being a fuckin dumbass like most the guys our age who are having trouble that just think steroids are the only answer! Def get in touch with 3J
 
I have thought about switching it ups. Also admittedly I could do with more "healthy" fats from almonds and such.

I have these, I really need to go to the doctors and get it sorted, however I tend to just get on with things rather than going to doctors, especially as they're crap over here in the united kingdom.

5/3/1 Has been good, but I have stalled so I have took a step back (deload 10% as you said).

I COULD use some help with accessory work defiantly. In fact I have recently been chopping and changing to see if I notice any benefits.

I do DB press, lateral raises for shoulders.
I do Tbar rows, weighted chins, back extensions and shrugs
I do weighted dips, incline db and flyes for chest
I do front squats, leg press, Glute ham raise and extensions for legs.

I also do biceps with chest and triceps with shoulders. I used to do a bit more volume but as said, I've chopped some things to see if a less is more approach works? It's pretty annoying and I just wish I knew a direction that would work. With the accessory work I do either 3 or 4 sets and use progressive overload.

So example 4 sets of DB press. When I hit 4x12 I will up the weight.

I do cardio all day whilst working. I also do 5-10 min of running or jogging whilst at the gym each day.

Yeah I think maybe my cuts are bad, maybe bulks are too short. I always seem to be in the middle no matter how long I do things. Too skinny to cut, too fat to bulk. Perhaps a lot is to do with the difference in water and body composition giving me the impression that I am fatter than what I am sometimes.


With the calories, I just taper it down until I see progress. I was recently able to cut on 2800k a day. With some extra cardio on workout days.

What's your definition of healthy fats? I ask bc many ppl would t consider saturated fats healthy but they are very beneficial to hormonal function and other bodily processes. They shouldn't make up your whole fat macro but don't avoid them like the plague either. Almonds, any nuts or seeds really, avacados, whole eggs, dairy products, olive oil, fish oil, ground flax, fatty fish, fatty cuts of meat, etc are all good sources for dietary fat.

Doctors may be crap but so is having hormonal values out of balance or problems with pain associated with flat feet. You can pick your poison here: would you rather risk seeing a crap doctor and have a chance at some answers or solutions or would you rather stay with not knowing your hormonal values and/or experiencing pain in your feet?

You said you're a postal worker I believe so that means plenty of walking already, I would reduce your cardio in the gym to a fast walk/low intensity pace. You're already reaping the cardiovascular benefits, keeping fatty acid oxidative pathways open, and only lowering a caloric surplus unnecessarily. It may also be eating into your recovery and why you reached a plateau point. My recommendation is to cut back on the "extra" cardio in the gym to 2 or 3 5-10min sessions and keep the intensity low (don't go max heart rate).

Looking at the pics you posted, YOU'RE LOOKING GREAT FOR 146lbs. I seriously expected to see much less muscle mass than I did. You face the same problem everyone else faces: how to bulk without getting too fat. It's all a mental game with this. It's a risk:reward ratio you have to balance. When you bulk (especially if only doing 2lbs/month bulk) you will need to accept fat gains may be up to half of the weight you gain (maybe more), a good bulk of 5-10lbs of TRUE muscle mass (not lbm which is water, glycogen, tissue nd organ weight, etc) will take 6months or so natty and stick to the plan when you start to question things. It's much easier to cut fat than build muscle so worry about gaining muscle first. Stick to a calorie surplus for 6moths or more with good lifting and worry about cutting after. Assess your results with scale weight, tape measurements, mirror, how clothes feel on you, etc. don't jus rely on one thing bc it can be deceiving.

I your cutting macros are off it could def cut into the muscle mass you built when bulking. The slower the cut the raiser it is on recovery and maintaining lbm. Slightly increasing protein can help and so will reducing training volume while keeping intensity high.

Too many ppl spin their wheels with diet bc they bulk to short/ cut too hard and flip flop back and forth before fully maximizing each cycle. Commit to a true bulk then commit to a true cut, try and stay out of the grey area here.

As for training, I do strength training. That's my number one goal. Mass is an added bonus and I can say i can add mass prett easily when I'm bulking bc diet has more to do with mass than anything else. I personally don't do body part splits anymore and probably will never go back to them. My favorite training programs include Starting Strength, Texas Method, Bill Starr's 5x5, Madcow's 5x5, WS4SB, Westside conjugate method etc. I focus on slightly less volume but increasing intensity and my strength has shot up since I began lifting this way. I have used sTarting Strength to add 2 1/4in on my arms during a bulk. The ONLY direct arm work I ever did was 1day/wk I would do 3sets of BB curl and 3sets of CG Bench. 6total sets of arm work and I added over 2in, that tells me a lot of things lol
 
How about patience! Your still very young! In the next 5 years your body will change significantly and you will start to find weight gain easier! Just keep training and be patient! Some people don't reach full physical maturity till 25! I didnt! I was 6'2 180 with training till about 25 and then BAM shot up to 230! Give it time! Patience grasshopper!
 
Hey ho. I do give it plenty of patience I've been training since I was 15. 7 years in my mind is patience.

I defiantly think going down the anabolic route is my only option though.
 
Hey ho. I do give it plenty of patience I've been training since I was 15. 7 years in my mind is patience.

I defiantly think going down the anabolic route is my only option though.

What have you been doing since the last post? What's your diet been, body comp, strength gains, etc? Any progress?
 
What have you been doing since the last post? What's your diet been, body comp, strength gains, etc? Any progress?

I'm now at 147.8lbs. Strength started to stall so I had to rewind my maxes on 5/3/1 and build back up. I'm back at where I was on my peak lift so we'll see what happens.

However even though I'm only up around 3-4lbs since the start of June. I am now currently to watery and with a holiday in 3 weeks, I'm simply eating a little less and doing more cardio.

Not really a cut, not really a recomp just bringing it back a bit I like to think.


So yeah my 1RMs are back at the same stage before I rewound my lifts by around 10-15%, was hoping to start seeing some good gains but my lifts are getting harder even on the 5s week which is supposed to be fairly easy.
 
I'm now at 147.8lbs. Strength started to stall so I had to rewind my maxes on 5/3/1 and build back up. I'm back at where I was on my peak lift so we'll see what happens.

However even though I'm only up around 3-4lbs since the start of June. I am now currently to watery and with a holiday in 3 weeks, I'm simply eating a little less and doing more cardio.

Not really a cut, not really a recomp just bringing it back a bit I like to think.


So yeah my 1RMs are back at the same stage before I rewound my lifts by around 10-15%, was hoping to start seeing some good gains but my lifts are getting harder even on the 5s week which is supposed to be fairly easy.

What were you expecting to gain? 1-2 lbs a month is plenty, unless you're looking to get fat.

This is bound to happen, otherwise people would be squatting 10,000 lbs. 5/3/1 has programmed deloads. Follow the program to the T and you will progress. You will also need to eat more, and continue to get ample rest / sleep.
 
What were you expecting to gain? 1-2 lbs a month is plenty, unless you're looking to get fat.

This is bound to happen, otherwise people would be squatting 10,000 lbs. 5/3/1 has programmed deloads. Follow the program to the T and you will progress. You will also need to eat more, and continue to get ample rest / sleep.

Of course not but getting too flabby from a gain of 3-4lbs sucks majorly, where is the muscle?!

Again I understand things take time, I am 7 years in and it's not going to get any faster!



Yes I know but I rewound my lifts around 10-15% because I couldn't even hit my targeted weight on the 1s week. So it's taken me about 3 cycles to catch back up where I was before and it's not feeling any easier! I defiantly though that by deloading all my total lifts and almost restarting would defiantly see me slightly stronger. Perhaps it's also a mental weakness that I need to triumph!

I've been good with my sleep, I target to be getting into bed by 9PM and I am up at 5.10. Even though I get the "desired" 8 hours, I am constantly tired but I see that as life and no matter how much rest I get I seem to be tired anyways. I might try napping more though, thoughts?
 
Of course not but getting too flabby from a gain of 3-4lbs sucks majorly, where is the muscle?!

Again I understand things take time, I am 7 years in and it's not going to get any faster!



Yes I know but I rewound my lifts around 10-15% because I couldn't even hit my targeted weight on the 1s week. So it's taken me about 3 cycles to catch back up where I was before and it's not feeling any easier! I defiantly though that by deloading all my total lifts and almost restarting would defiantly see me slightly stronger. Perhaps it's also a mental weakness that I need to triumph!

I've been good with my sleep, I target to be getting into bed by 9PM and I am up at 5.10. Even though I get the "desired" 8 hours, I am constantly tired but I see that as life and no matter how much rest I get I seem to be tired anyways. I might try napping more though, thoughts?

That initial 5lbs or so on any bulk is goin to be water and added glycogen stores. So by limiting your gains to 3-4lbs and now cutting, you've halted any progress you made. I think you need to stick with a solid bulk for 4-6months. Aim for 2-4lbs every month while increasing the weights you lift. I know you want to cut now for the holiday but after that make an effort to not cut again for at least 4months minimum.

As you get stronger, the weights you lift won't be gettin easier. They will actually still feel heavy bc the feelin easier aspect is negated by the increased stress the new weights add to your fatigue levels. Making any sort of gains on a cut and 5/3/1 is going to be difficult. A program like this is highly dependent on a bulk. Maybe its time to adjus your training program so you can keep intensity high and lower volume slightly n
 
^ This.

It seems to me like you are too afraid to get "fat". That just comes with the territory my friend. It's damn near impossible to walk around with a 6 pack year round while bulking as a natty.
 
You're both probably right. I am afraid purely because I've ended up a fat mess even though I thought I was getting bigger. I am not cutting now, just drawing things back before my holiday in three weeks. Pretty much just wound back my eating a tad and I am doing a bit more cardio (Squash for fun). I'm still eating 2900kcals which is 400 less. So nothing HUGE

However once my holiday is over with. I'm going to plan a steady strong bulk and not even look at a cutting diet until February. I should be able to make noticeable gains over the winter months and hopefully improve majorly.



- Edit, I don't really have a great six pack as I am normally never really ripped. I hover around 12-14%. I've never been shredded but I'm content around 12-14%.
 
I know it's a hugely stupid thing to say. But I really feel I deserve this.

I've been at it throughout all of my teens, I've dedicated so much time to learning routines, creating diets, in the gym, cardio and such. I really feel like I REALLY deserve this. I just need to work harder, I know this.



No doubt I will report back at some point. Hopefully I'll be able to relay some good news.
 
I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into a plan that seems to be working, but I do want to chime in for powerlifting. It may be a month long training differentiation that could help you end this plateau. Westside conjugate training is fantastic.

Good luck man. I had a few of your particular issues early on in my training. Sometimes you want it so bad that you overwork your ability to recover. That was my problem--and has been an issue for me for many years. My drive to do more gave me less. Its like loving a woman that delights in your pain.
 
I may try a powerlifting style routine if this next chapter of a bulk through 5/3/1 doesn't help me. But wont think about that until IF AND WHEN. February or spring time.

Thanks for the help though guys, appreciate all replies.
 
I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into a plan that seems to be working, but I do want to chime in for powerlifting. It may be a month long training differentiation that could help you end this plateau.

This is exactly what I am doing right now.
 
I know it's a hugely stupid thing to say. But I really feel I deserve this.

I've been at it throughout all of my teens, I've dedicated so much time to learning routines, creating diets, in the gym, cardio and such. I really feel like I REALLY deserve this. I just need to work harder, I know this.



No doubt I will report back at some point. Hopefully I'll be able to relay some good news.

Just pick a program and stick with it for a few months. Follow the program 100% TO THE T and eat in a surplus around 500 cals. I've been training for 4 years and I just reverted back to Starting Strength, even though I have been getting results, because I've never really followed a structured routine.
 
You're both probably right. I am afraid purely because I've ended up a fat mess even though I thought I was getting bigger. I am not cutting now, just drawing things back before my holiday in three weeks. Pretty much just wound back my eating a tad and I am doing a bit more cardio (Squash for fun). I'm still eating 2900kcals which is 400 less. So nothing HUGE

However once my holiday is over with. I'm going to plan a steady strong bulk and not even look at a cutting diet until February. I should be able to make noticeable gains over the winter months and hopefully improve majorly.



- Edit, I don't really have a great six pack as I am normally never really ripped. I hover around 12-14%. I've never been shredded but I'm content around 12-14%.

I think you're heading in the right direction my friend :). If yore bulking natty the best you can really hope to accomplish at your level is to gain as much fat as anything else. It sucks but that's how the body works. You've got to deal with it until you build enough muscle to cut. And lbm is everything but fat so that includes glycogen stores, water, muscle, organs and tissue, connective ligaments, etc. if you gain 10lbs in lbm in a month 1-2lbs of that typically is muscle mass. And this is if everything goes perfect which it doesn't always. Wait until after your holiday and come back with a meal plan proposal and a workout routine and let us critique it for you. I think Westside is a great program but it is geared more towards a certain demographic. Other options are bill Starr's 5x5 and Rippetoe's Texas Method. Best of luck brother and keep us updated :)
 
I think you're heading in the right direction my friend :). If yore bulking natty the best you can really hope to accomplish at your level is to gain as much fat as anything else. It sucks but that's how the body works. You've got to deal with it until you build enough muscle to cut. And lbm is everything but fat so that includes glycogen stores, water, muscle, organs and tissue, connective ligaments, etc. if you gain 10lbs in lbm in a month 1-2lbs of that typically is muscle mass. And this is if everything goes perfect which it doesn't always. Wait until after your holiday and come back with a meal plan proposal and a workout routine and let us critique it for you. I think Westside is a great program but it is geared more towards a certain demographic. Other options are bill Starr's 5x5 and Rippetoe's Texas Method. Best of luck brother and keep us updated :)

Thanks man. I will do. I want to finish out 5/3/1 though 100%. I believe it's a great program and I believe I'll get some good from it.

Once I get back from my vacation, I am going to hit it hard and keep the gains steady and I will not worry about fat and such until around February next year. Should hopefully see some fair strength gains and maybe a noticeable size difference.

Appreciate the help guys, see you soon. ;):cool:
 
See this is the crap I can't get my head around.

Was 5/3/1 OHP day. My 1 rep set was 65kg and I couldn't even get it for one.
 
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