Iam coming up 45 and have trained on and off for the past 20 or so years and done so without any juice. I train mainly because I like to lift heavy but family etc has hindered any real ambition for a chiselled bod. Now I have decided after and year long trip around the world with the family that its time to really put my aims into place and go full on discipline and train like a bitch. I started in chiang mai Thailand 6 months ago every day of the last 3 months of our trip and ate well. Once back in uk I broke my leg and foot so have been couch lifting for the last couple of months and researching as best I can on what cycles to take first off and what best suits my needs. Iam 6feet 1 , 270 and approx 22 cent bf naturally big with a little to much around the midsection. Now I want to cut more than build as I have a good base naturally. I have definitely made my decision to try a cycle so please dont suggest dieting etc, first. The cycle iam thinking is 500mg primo, with some winstrol or anavar 60mg a day. I dont want to go to mad but at the same time dont want to waste my time. If any of you seasoned guys care to give your pennies worth it would be much appreciated, cheers mike
44 years old first cycle primo and winstrol / anavar
- Thread starter saits
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D.graham0991
Amateur Bodybuilder
If you are going to run the cycle regardless then I guess this is pointless but... IMO you need to do more research. Without a testosterone base that cycle will be, largely, a waste of money and effort. Also, 22% BF is a bit high. Once you add test in and continue to eat how you do you are going to retain water and your joints are going to be inflamed and in pain. Eating processed foods will lead to inflammation build up and you will probably suffer from tendonitis in the long run. Get your diet in check, get some test, gather your PCT, do some more research and then you will be ready to hit gainsville.
Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough in thread I eat very well on the whole don't really drink and don't smoke and have done my theoretical research using aas. As for processed foods I don't eat them at all apart the odd choc bar . So really wanting some input for first cycle in relation to improving shape and tone without wanting addition water retention if I can help things, so test wasn't in my thought process. Many people seem to write on these forums and state test ,test ,test now being a novice this may be for very good reason. I do not want to dismiss any relevant advisories but could you tell me why my proposed cycle baring in mind my age weight and goals would not be of most benefit or propose an alternative , many thanks mike
halfwit
I like turtles.
Testosterone is more than just an anabolic agent. Your body requires it to function properly. If you're still recovering and haven't been in the gym consistently for a solid year, you're going to end up back on that couch worse off than you started regardless of what compounds you choose due to the sudden change in strength outpacing your connective tissue strength.
I strongly suggest that you read the FAQ thread at the top of the AAS forum as you still have much to learn before you put anything in your body. The more you know, the better your experience will be.
"roid rage " is a myth, you won't go mad by any means lol.
D.graham0991
Amateur Bodybuilder
If you eat all organic and healthy and dont drink I dont know how you could be sitting at over 20% BF? Thats why i brought that up. Testosterone isnt just for bulking. The correct ester coupled with other "cutting" compounds can make for a lean machine.
oldmusclemike
Well-known member
Ya know I couldn't have put it better ^^^. You need to research the steroid profiles. You don't have the first clue as to what you're doing. Your choice of compounds is way off. Diet is the key to cutting. Your body needs it's test when you shut your own down. Winstrol does not cut you it helps keeps your muscles hard and vascular as you burn your fat off and loose the water weight by diet. Winstrol is used with Test towards the end of a cycle.
Regroup and reread the stickys , read what we suggest as a first cycle and read the profiles because by what you say you don't know what for and how to use Winstrol. I am very experienced with Winstrol. You came to this forum for advice so please don't discount it. You will waste your time and money on your proposed cycle.
Look there's a reason test is the base for all cycles. Everything shuts you down. Everything! Even test. Being a male, you need test to function properly. Orals cycles are for females only for good reason. If you did go and do your very poorly planned cycle, your going to shut down your natty test. What that means is no more functioning males parts. Do you really want to have a useless dick? Plus, primo and winstrol will do absolutely nothing nor will anything else for that matter for losing fat. That's all diet. You can tell us all you want about how good your diet is. The truth is your stats say otherwise. Gotta get that diet in check or you'll be wasting money on gear. Steroids aren't magic. They're only maybe 10% of the equation. Please read the ology faq's thread. You really need educated on things. This would be expected from an 18 year old kid who's pretty ignorant, not a guy in his 40's...
D.graham0991
Amateur Bodybuilder
Both of these guys are giving you the best advice when it comes to AAS and your need of research. I, however, prefer to start with what i know which is nutrition. Without proper nutrition (which you dont have) AAS and supplements are pointless and exercise is hindered. Get your nutrtion on point and research AAS daily. When you hit the right point you will know its time for the next step.
If you want any advice on nutrition I would be happy to help you out I am very passionate in this field as it was my major in college and I have learned much since my college years about nutrition and bodybuilding.
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I've taken a bit of flak towards the end of the thread highlighting I know nothing my diet is shite etc, I did state initially I have been off with a broken leg. Iam naturally a big guy without lifting and come mainly from a boxing background so my fitness has always been good but tend to put weight on when not training fairly quickly hence high body fat at present. I have an extensive base in nutrition myself via studies degree etc, My main aim is as stated initially is to get chiselled now with the right diet which is in check now Iam coming through the leg issue.In the past no matter how hard I train I get big but never ripped no matter how hard I have trained and dieted. I have been looking into cycles now for a few years and think maybe its time to jump in. To date the best articles I have seen are from john doe and the proposed cycle was one he proposed for the older guy with my goals in mind. Now anybody who can give me their view whilst taking the time to read what I have written and not casting unwarranted subjective judgements would be greatly appreciated.
halfwit
I like turtles.
I'm disappointed.
You're in my age group and are unable to handle constructive criticism appropriately. Not a single person said you're clueless, nor were you insulted. However, your lack of understanding in how hormones work is glaringly apparent.
Diet is the single most important factor in body composition. I read that many years ago, had heard it ad infinitum over the years, and STILL thought it was horseshit.
I was incredibly wrong.
To give insight as to why I'm qualified to tell you how wrong you are, and why you should be reading as much as possible, and not feeling insulted - I'm going to give you some insight into my experience.
I started weight training at the age of 13, and by the time I was 17, I was stronger than most grown men you've ever met. I'm not bragging, but I want to give some context here. I trained like a demon, ate like a starving Ethiopian, and slept like a baby. The only time i wasn't at the gym or eating, I was on the football field.
At the tender age of 24, I got hurt on the job picking up 650+ pound spools of wire, and had to have knee surgeries. I became hooked on pain killers, ate like shit, couldn't train, and as I was on state-funded disability, I just slept all day or played online games. I became hypogonadal (low T) as the drugs slowly destroyed my testes.
I went a decade like this, blowing up to over 500lbs at over 50% body fat. I developed diabetes, depression, and all sorts of other medical issues like anxiety, depression and whatever else clueless doctors wanted to try on my ever-growing fat ass. I literally watched my legs shrink from the pillars of strength that enabled me to pick up almost 800lbs at meets to almost nothing. It wasn't a time of my life that I'm proud of, or cherish one bit.
It wasn't until I was 34 and with the prospect of becoming a father that I decided to fix things. How on earth I remained married is still a mystery to me, but I am very lucky in that regard. I started reading about AAS as I too thought that there must be some magic secret to why bodybuilders were in such amazing shape. This is when I learned about low testosterone and how I should get checked before going any further. My total testosterone, at a PEAK was 120ng/dL - that's roughly the same as a pubertal female... There aren't words in my vocabulary to express just how I felt knowing that there was a cure for this position I had been in. I literally spent hours in the gym, almost to the verge of tears as I not only would get so tired so quickly, but things I could once do with ease were now impossible.
Imagine knowing that you could bench press over 465lbs as a teenager, but as a grown man, 120lbs (on a machine!) was impossible. Not a pleasant feeling to state it mildly.
So I started TRT, and noticed things starting to change. I spent a very long time reading about hormones as I saw first hand just how bad "roids" messed up my buddies from my youth (scared me away from AAS actually), and then discovered ology after I tried one joke of a cycle in desperation to move things faster.
Diet, diet, diet is what I kept reading. Of course I had a mouthful of McDonald's while reading this nonsense as an anonymous forum lurker. Horseshit! I'm on the JUICE, I don't need to worry about diet!
Wrong.
Changes kept coming at a snail's pace, but I was making *some* progress. Hell, I learned how to train from some of the best in the powerlifting sport - and even though they preached diet - it still hadn't fully dawned on me. I had advanced EMS training, multiple college credits in nutrition and biology, yet I remained firm in my belief that I knew better.
Then, it slowly started to sink in. What were all these HONEST posters that admitted to using AAS all sharing in common? They knew what they ate. They knew what their bodies needed. They understood what was required to push the envelope - diet!
Talk about an epiphany.
To make a long (okay it's already long) story short, just learning from folks here, hiring 3J, and revisiting my old nutrition texts, I changed my lifestyle. I have lost close to 250lbs of body fat, dropped down to a current percentage of 11-12%, put on around 65lbs of lean mass, can FINALLY kick my teenage ass' personal bests, and VASTLY increased my lifespan.
The big change? Must have been the drugs, right? It was seriously diet that had the greatest impact. I tried every conceivable fat burner out there, including the dreaded DNP - and NOTHING came close to what was accomplished by changing what and how I ate.
Nothing. That's the balls to bones truth.
So when you come on here with a proposed shit cycle and spout off about how you're already knowledgeable in all the departments but AAS, I have to say... Horseshit.
This is the place to be if you want to learn how to do things the RIGHT way. You have the opportunity to learn from successful folks for FREE - but you need to learn to have an open mind and actually listen to what you're being told. You can't get ripped? It's your diet brother, plain and simple.
Sorry folks for the mountain of text, but I (if you read it all) am pretty passionate about this topic as you can see.
My .02c
Teutonic
New member
Saits,
Welcome to Ology mate.
Not only do I echoe the members input but HW s one of the smartest, nicest guy s not only here but in my life.
Again I ll say I echoe HW in saying no one said anything to justify such a vehement reply like " I feel like I m being told I don t know squat about dieting...". No one attacked you. No one was out of line. I d have slammed any unnecessary roughness as that s what I do but for HW to write such a thesarsus on his own exp. is not only rare but do date has never happened. U should consider yourself unbelievably lucky as someone with no time in rarely get s the kid glove treatment. It s a tough audience but you did a great intro so everyone gave u good solid input w o any criticism rather good advice.
You got hurt. Ur body fat went way up. Shit happens. Ur lack of knowing test is a must has you pulling a low C in AAS 101. I m not bashing as I truelly believe you can acquire some good info here, some great tips in aas usage, training , make good friends and yes...improve dietary knowledge too.
Test is who we --------as men, are...to shut it off is tantamount to mental stability suicide not to mention bodily functions esp in the shagging chamber. I ll end this here and w o giving u any grief. Hopefully it s just the realization that you needed to gather a wee bit more empirical data and being 22 point s bringing Dr Jekyl to the for front.
Again "Welcome", please stick around. We are the premier aas web site in that we study this as a lifestyle and not a fleeting hobby or get big get ripped quick site.
Respectfully
T
Welcome to Ology mate.
Not only do I echoe the members input but HW s one of the smartest, nicest guy s not only here but in my life.
Again I ll say I echoe HW in saying no one said anything to justify such a vehement reply like " I feel like I m being told I don t know squat about dieting...". No one attacked you. No one was out of line. I d have slammed any unnecessary roughness as that s what I do but for HW to write such a thesarsus on his own exp. is not only rare but do date has never happened. U should consider yourself unbelievably lucky as someone with no time in rarely get s the kid glove treatment. It s a tough audience but you did a great intro so everyone gave u good solid input w o any criticism rather good advice.
You got hurt. Ur body fat went way up. Shit happens. Ur lack of knowing test is a must has you pulling a low C in AAS 101. I m not bashing as I truelly believe you can acquire some good info here, some great tips in aas usage, training , make good friends and yes...improve dietary knowledge too.
Test is who we --------as men, are...to shut it off is tantamount to mental stability suicide not to mention bodily functions esp in the shagging chamber. I ll end this here and w o giving u any grief. Hopefully it s just the realization that you needed to gather a wee bit more empirical data and being 22 point s bringing Dr Jekyl to the for front.
Again "Welcome", please stick around. We are the premier aas web site in that we study this as a lifestyle and not a fleeting hobby or get big get ripped quick site.
Respectfully
T
Obviously a waste of my time and yours then as to what f..in cycle to do. All you yanks just talk talk talk all bollocks to make your ego's feel good. Now those who posted can feel good and call me a prick and I know nothing bla bla, but the truth is I just wanted some good advise. I did not feel precious at any time just stated I needed good advice.
halfwit
I like turtles.
So you're just fucking retarded. Got it.
Hey, best of luck you lazy, impatient and incredulous bastard. Yes, if you couldn't tell - this is me insulting you. Oh, and you still don't understand diet.
Teutonic
New member
Odd. Most Royal subjects are much tougher types and love to verbally joust and are extremely good at absorbing and dolling out both criticism and punishment. I know in war they are hard as hell to get to quit and or kill. I knew some Aussie/Kiwi marine s who d abuse this guy for giving such a poor performance .
Guess there s 3 QUEENS now-----
The Queen mother
Elton John
OP...Original Puscifer.
I ll lock this so he ll stomp around just hope there s no kids or women to abuse you f k n arse hole.
Guess there s 3 QUEENS now-----
The Queen mother
Elton John
OP...Original Puscifer.
I ll lock this so he ll stomp around just hope there s no kids or women to abuse you f k n arse hole.
Megatron28
Moderator
I am guessing this guy is a Brit. I have worked with them a lot over the years in my job. Very nice people. I have learned one thing though in my dealings. They hate being told what to do by Yanks (Americans). You have to manipulate them to think that it was all their idea. It doesn't matter how good the idea is. If a Yank is the one that thought of it they won't be inclined to listen.
juced_porkchop
Moderator
use test, atleast a test base (hrt amount of test) with any cycle. also first cycle re generally rec 1 compound, MAYBE 2 and that is test.
some test and primo would be fairly mild.
also research AI use in cycle (i rec 0.25-0.5mg dex eod from start of cycle to pct (not in pct)
and research PCT (i rec 4-5 weeks of 50mg clomid ed and 20mg tamox ed)777good luck!
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