Adding Estrogen Blocker to TRT-injections

[BDTMD]

So I've been on TRT-injections (.5ml weekly) for over a year! This site has been very helpful! I don't have any of my blood test info, but maybe you can help me answer this question. My T has been good but lately I've been tired, loss of morning erections, loss of appetite for sex, not losing weight (but working out and eating decent). So I got a blood test and since I was out of the country for work, I didn't get to talk to my Dr, but he left me a message that my T looked good but my estrogen was high and he put in a prescription for an estrogen blocker. He wants to follow up in 4-6 weeks. So my question is, how long will the blocker take to work? Will I see weight loss results quickly? I'm 6' and 215 and in the military and have a PT test coming up (we're I get weighed in). How long until I'll feel good again? Just wondering if anyone had a similar issue in the past. Thanks!

 

[Mprtz]

It would help if you had the details of your blood test to post here. From your post I'm assuming 100mg testosterone per week - this is a dose you may or may not need an estrogen blocker on.

Most importantly, which estrogen blocker (or AI for Aromatase Inhibitor) did the doctor prescribe and at what dose?

The effects on your estradiol levels should be evident in a week or two. You should lose some water weight if your estradiol levels are currently high, but AI is not a diet pill...

You're certainly not alone... managing estradiol (E2) levels is one of the trickiest parts of TRT.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

There is a difference between an estrogen blocker and an aromatase inhibitor. Blockers like Nolva block estrogen from sticking to receptors sites in certain tissues. Aromatase inhibitors reduce the amount of e2 in your blood stream.

For TRT you will want the latter.

 

[Mprtz]

^ Good point. I was just assuming that estrogen blocker was being used as a term for AI by the doc, given that the problem was high E2.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

^ Good point. I was just assuming that estrogen blocker was being used as a term for AI by the doc, given that the problem was high E2.

You'd be surprised a lot of them still prescribe Nolva and what not.

And really just want to share the diff with op

 

[BDTMD]

So my Dr. just left a message and specifically said "estrogen blocker". I'll have to wait and see until Monday when I go get the prescription. I'm hoping he didn't give me Nolva and is giving me the AI. If not, and I do take the Nolva, what will happen?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

So my Dr. just left a message and specifically said "estrogen blocker". I'll have to wait and see until Monday when I go get the prescription. I'm hoping he didn't give me Nolva and is giving me the AI. If not, and I do take the Nolva, what will happen?

He could very well be describing it wrong and it could in fact be anastrozole. Lots of people get confused there.

Let us know.

 

[BDTMD]

So the prescription my Dr. sent in was for Arimidex. He prescribed me 1mg per day. This is the AI that everyone said is the right medication which puts me at ease. Are there any side affects that anyone has seen on this medication? They said no alcohol? How quickly will I see results (sex drive, erections, weight loss)? Thanks for the help.

 

[Mprtz]

Careful with that dose - it's very likely wildly excessive.

Just as a data point, 1mg PER WEEK split in two doses crashed my E2 on 120mg testosterone per week.

Guys on a gram of test per week don't take that much.

1mg per day is the standard "on label" dose for treating breast cancer, but it is way too much for our purposes.

0.25mg twice a week would be a better starting point, but it's not inconceivable that even that is too much.

 

[BDTMD]

How do you split up those pills, they are miniature? Plus I just took one before i read the post! Now what?

 

[Mprtz]

I don't want to be in the position of countermanding your physician, I can only speak from my experience and refer to the collective experiences of many here when I say that is probably way too much AI.

The thing is, if I'm right and it is too much it can be very unpleasant to crash your E2 levels and can take weeks to recover from.

Hopefully others will back me up here.

No need to get your stomach pumped , but maybe hold off taking more until you've done some more research? Maybe gently inquire with your doc how he determined the dose and get a sense of his confidence in it?

I get my Arimidex in compounded 0.25mg capsules, the 1mg tabs are not ideal. Your options are trying a pill splitter (pharmacy) or looking for another source (such as RUI) which is easier to measure out in smaller doses.

 

[daleb]

protocol.
75mg every 3.5 days test cyp
.25mg every 3.5 days arimidex

crashed me in about 3 weeks. Going from around 65 ng/dl to single digits (non-sensitive assay).

.125 mg every 3.5 days still brings my e2 too low.

I do not want to step in between you and your doctor either. But though one of the site sponsors you can purchase a liquid version of arimidex and take very low dose to start with.

 

[BDTMD]

well I take .5ml of 200mg test cyp vial 1x per week. So I use the entire 1ml of 200mg test every 2 weeks. Does that make sense? What dose does everyone recommend I start with? .25 or .125 twice a week?

 

[Mprtz]

Everyone aromatizes a bit differently. It would help to know how much "too high" your E2 is without an AI... any way that you could get that information?

 

[BDTMD]

I can probably get a copy of my blood work on Monday. I already took a 1mg tab so I'll hold off on taking anything else until Monday

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

DO NOT take 1mg QD. That is down right dangerous for males on the dose of T your on. Your bones will turn into styrofoam after a while.

The most your gonna need is 1mg per week with your T dose and more likely 0.5mg for the entire week.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Speaking of, I found a cool study today on this.

OBJECTIVE: Strenuous training commonly results in amenorrhoea, which contributes to bone loss in some female collegiate athletes. However, the impact of athletic training on endocrine function and bone mineral density (BMD) in male collegiate athletes is less well understood. The objective of the study was to investigate the specific endocrine determinants of BMD in male collegiate runners and wrestlers, including the potential impact of gonadal steroid levels.

RESULTS: Free and total oestradiol levels were important positive determinants of BMD. In contrast, total and free testosterone levels were not significant predictors of BMD at any skeletal site (except for free testosterone at the radius). In addition, lean body mass, % ideal body weight, total body weight, body mass index (BMI) and hours per week of resistance training were positive predictors of BMD. VO(2) max was a negative predictor of BMD. Mean BMD was higher at all skeletal sites in the wrestlers compared with the runners and a comparison group (golfers).

CONCLUSIONS: Our data suggest that oestradiol levels, BMI, and resistance training are more important determinants of BMD in male collegiate athletes than testosterone.

Estradiol levels predict bone mineral density in male collegiate athletes: a pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[daleb]

College wrestlers are always injured. Perfect combination of endurance training, calorie counting, and combat. Ever since they instituted 1 and 2 hour weigh ins it seems like injuries just got worse.

 

[Gossamer]

For reference, I'm on 160mg of test per week, split into two doses every 3.5 days. And I take 1/4 mg of anastrozole(generic name for arimidex) 24 hours after each injection. That keeps my E2 levels in range.

Near the beginning of taking an AI a few years ago, I took too much. Thankfully, from doing research here, I knew what symptoms to look for if my E2 was crashed. First, my joints started to ache, and wasn't able to get normal erections.

I'm going to guess, with my layman opinion*, that if you're injecting 100mg test once a week, you're going to need 1/4-1/2 mg arimidex each week. But you'll have to see how high your E2 is first.

Why not split the 100mg testosterone dose into 2 injections per week, every 3.5 days? You may not need an AI.

*layman opinion means take it with a grain of salt.

 

[BDTMD]

So I got my labs today, here are the results:

Estradiol- 50.3 pg/ml
Testosterone- 833.1 ng/dL (210-800)
Testosterone Free 26.3 of/mL (8.7-25.1)
LH- .22 mIU/ml

From what I read, 50.3 doesn't seem that high, or maybe not as high as other posts I have seen. What does everyone think? Any thoughts on dosing. I took 1/2 of a 1mg pill today. I'm also going to call my Dr, just want everyone's thoughts.

Thanks