Advice: First ProHormone Cycle

[CrazyOldGuy]

Age: 53 yrs
Height 5' 08"
Weight 155 lbs
BF 9-11%
Experience: Been lifting steady for last three years, clean diet, currently on keto diet.

Goals - Add 5 lbs (or more if possible) of solid muscle mass

Info: Testosterone used to run near bottom of range. For last 11 months been taking low dose clomid (25 mg EOD) and exemestane (12.5 mg EOD) and this has kept testosterone near high end of range and estrogen near bottom middle. All labs done to date are good - liver enzymes good, cholesterol numbers are fantastic. Long term use of clomid in older men has been studied extensively and seems a safe option.

Planned Cycle

Epistane 30mg 30mg 30 mg 45 mg (4 weeks)
Epi Andro RX 2x daily for 8 weeks (Iron Mag Labs )

Planned PCT
( I will stay on 25 mg clomid EOD all cycle - but drop the exemestane due to anti estrogen properties of Epistane and the stories of it drying out joints. Add Exemstane in during Week 7 or 8 is a possibility although Epi -Andro is anti-estrogenic as well)

Clomid 25 mg ED, 25 mg ED, 25 mg EOD 25 mg EOD ( thinking this is enough as this not an overly suppressive cycle ? also since I am staying on low dose clomid should have a good stable blood level )
Exemestane 12.5mg ED, 12.5 mg ED, 12.5 mg EOD, 12.5 mg EOD
D Aspartic Acid
Unleashed ( bind SHBG)

Supplements while on cycle (this is what I pretty much take regularly - adding the Liv52 )
Vit C 3000 mg daily
Liv52
N Acetyl Cysteine
R-AlphaLipoic Acid
Vitamin E ( mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols)
B- Vitamins - various
Vitamin D
Fish Oil
Co Enzyme Q10
Mineral supplement (SpectraMin Chelate)
Velvet Bean Extract (L-Dopa)
Stinging Nettle Extract

Diet

During the first four weeks - will up calories dramatically to about 500 over maintenance and add carbs in the form of fresh fruit, berries and oatmeal back into diet. (45% fat, 25% protein, 30 % carbs)
During last four weeks - will stay 500 + but go back to ketogenic or at least much lower carbs (65 % fat, 25 % protein, 10% carbs)
During post cycle therapy (pct) - go to maintenance level calories? - maintain low carbs or should I add more fruit / carbs in while on post cycle therapy (pct) ?

Should I add creatine in during the cycle - I know it will increase my weight but will those be maintainable gains if I am not planning to stay on creatine ( I thought it is not advised while on keto diet as there are no carbs for it to work with ? )

Anyways - thoughts / feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Fresh2death]

We have a pro hormone section...

 

[CrazyOldGuy]

LOL- best advice yet !

 

[CrazyOldGuy]

Request advice / comments - First Prohormone cycle

Age: 53 yrs
Height 5' 08"
Weight 155 lbs
BF 9-11%
Experience: Been lifting steady for last three years, clean diet, currently on keto diet.

Goals - Add 5 lbs (or more if possible) of solid muscle mass

Info: Testosterone used to run near bottom of range. For last 11 months been taking low dose clomid (25 mg EOD) and exemestane (12.5 mg EOD) and this has kept testosterone near high end of range and estrogen near bottom middle. All labs done to date are good - liver enzymes good, cholesterol numbers are fantastic. Long term use of clomid in older men has been studied extensively and seems a safe option.

Planned Cycle

Epistane 30mg 30mg 30 mg 45 mg (4 weeks)
Epi Andro RX 2x daily for 8 weeks (Iron Mag Labs )

Planned PCT
( I will stay on 25 mg clomid EOD all cycle - but drop the exemestane due to anti estrogen properties of Epistane and the stories of it drying out joints. Add Exemstane in during Week 7 or 8 is a possibility although Epi -Andro is anti-estrogenic as well)

Clomid 25 mg ED, 25 mg ED, 25 mg EOD 25 mg EOD ( thinking this is enough as this not an overly suppressive cycle ? also since I am staying on low dose clomid should have a good stable blood level )
Exemestane 12.5mg ED, 12.5 mg ED, 12.5 mg EOD, 12.5 mg EOD
D Aspartic Acid
Unleashed ( bind SHBG)

Supplements while on cycle (this is what I pretty much take regularly - adding the Liv52 )
Vit C 3000 mg daily
Liv52
N Acetyl Cysteine
R-AlphaLipoic Acid
Vitamin E ( mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols)
B- Vitamins - various
Vitamin D
Fish Oil
Co Enzyme Q10
Mineral supplement (SpectraMin Chelate)
Velvet Bean Extract (L-Dopa)
Stinging Nettle Extract

Diet

During the first four weeks - will up calories dramatically to about 500 over maintenance and add carbs in the form of fresh fruit, berries and oatmeal back into diet. (45% fat, 25% protein, 30 % carbs)
During last four weeks - will stay 500 + but go back to ketogenic or at least much lower carbs (65 % fat, 25 % protein, 10% carbs)
During post cycle therapy (pct) - go to maintenance level calories? - maintain low carbs or should I add more fruit / carbs in while on post cycle therapy (pct) ?

Should I add creatine in during the cycle - I know it will increase my weight but will those be maintainable gains if I am not planning to stay on creatine ( I thought it is not advised while on keto diet as there are no carbs for it to work with ? )

Anyways - thoughts / feedback would be appreciated.

 

[3J]

ok.. why are we opting for a pro-hormone over a cycle?? ideally hrt??

 

[CrazyOldGuy]

Well - HRT is for life as I understand it. That was my backup solution but I decided to try the Clomid 25 mg EOD path. That has taken my testosterone levels up to about 80% of the range ( forget the number off the top of my head) - both for total and for free testosterone. So ... it suggested to me that I was not hypogonadal in the sense that my pituitary could not produce enough LH, nor was I hypogonadal in the sense that the testicles could not produce enough testosterone. It seemed to be more a problem in the feedback cycle in that even with low testosterone there was not significant feedback to tell the pituitary to make more LH. Clomid seems to address that deficiency, upping the LH and upping my Test. To me - it seems if I can take a medication that causes my body to produce all the hormones it needs that is a better solution than taking exogenous testosterone for life. Also, my experience in talking to doctor's here in Canada worried me - in that they did not seem as advanced as the US in terms of HRT. Throw testosterone cream at the guy and send him on his way - don't even talk about anti-estrogens, HCG to keep the boys active, or other things like DHEA that may help to maintain a proper hormonal balance. My belief /hope is that with the clomid approach I am stimulating my system to do what it is supposed to - a belief I admit and wanting in full evidence but I think it is healthier than going on T cream.

So the next question is why not pin testosterone versus an oral prohormone. I am a regular blood donor so not scared of needles - but really don't like the idea of giving them to myself. Orals seem easy. Other option considered was a transdermal testosterone source like RS-Transaderm or Dermacrine.

 

[3J]

i see..

so why not run a cycle of 12 weeks and come off?? epistane is going to lower your test levels anyways

 

[CrazyOldGuy]

A valid question surely. I guess I will go back to I don't like the idea of giving myself injections much, don't have an easy reliable source for testosterone, don't know anything about pinning myself, and don't know anyone in my home town that pins that I can use for advice. Orals seem easy - at the risk of increase liver risk which I hear can be mitigated with proper supplementation.

The web seems to indicate that EpiStane is not very suppressive and that a 4 week cycle can lead to some good gains and not much risk. Would not 12 weeks of exogenous testosterone be more suppressive ?

 

[Andreas Munzer]

looks like a decent cycle the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) while on cycle is that due to you being gyno prone? otherwise I wouldn't use it unless you have to or are you looking to reduce water weight during your cycle? everything else looks ok I'd be sure to keep your eye on your blood pressure and keep your water intake up tudca cycle support maybe useful for cycle support to really protect yourself

 

[gymrat827]

looks like a decent cycle the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) while on cycle is that due to you being gyno prone? otherwise I wouldn't use it unless you have to or are you looking to reduce water weight during your cycle? everything else looks ok I'd be sure to keep your eye on your blood pressure and keep your water intake up tudca cycle support maybe useful for cycle support to really protect yourself

12 wks will surely supress you, but with some hcg and proper cycle supports it won't be bad. You already have a handle on clomid so I'm sure you could jumpstart yourself once the cycle ends and it's time to get back to Natty.

I'd really rec doing 45 mg the whole time, 30 is just such a low dose. The gains from 45 will be much much better as well.