Advice - Testosterone

[Vigilante]

hello guys,

a little background on myself - im 29 years old and all of my life I have been massivly overweight and also had depression issues for the last 10-12 years. About 6-7 years ago I had some bloodwork done which at the time showed a testosterone level (free?) or 8.9 mmol? my dr said it was within normal level, I didnt know any better so didnt follow up with any kind of research.

my depression got to a point where I didnt leave the house much and my weight went from around 100kg - 160kg.

but over the last 2 years iv actually managed to overturn the weight issues through diet and exercise and lost around 70kg....

To cut the long story short, it left me with some looser parts (stomach, chest,inner thigh) so I decied to start trying to bulk up in muscle at the gym as well as increase my diet with good protein foods and supplements.

I have been wrking out now to the point of getting delayed soreness on most workouts but im not really achieving anything, I recently had another testosterone test which improved slightly to 13.4 mmol, but Im guessing now that this is indeed very low side of "normal" and that I should be looking to increase this to help me with gaining muscle?

Since it has gone from 8.9-13.4 I have experienced less mood issues too.

Another issue is my fiancee does not get pregnant which Im also afraid means this test level gives me a low sperm count.

When I was young I had an operation for a undescended testicle which got stitched into place so im guessing that is one of the issues for the lower level.

I also have the feeling my Dr would not even consider therapy even if I asked.

any advice would be much appreciated thanks.

 

[MoparMuscle]

What's the range for the free test?

What was total test?

Congrats on loosing the weight and turning your life around!

 

[Vigilante]

thanks!

I think the range in the lab here was from 9.0-20s? maybe 27mmol, I have an appointment again on wednesday I will try to get a print out of the full test result.

Is it correct that the average for my age group is around 21 mmol?

One thing I get at alot at the gym is my muscles fatigue very very quickly.

so symptoms or possible symptoms would be:

Depression
High bf% or previously (was 35% last year, recent test was 19%)
Possible low fertility (not had a check but not used any protection in over 1 year)
fatigue easy

 

[MoparMuscle]

If your in the states I'd contact Chip, get a FULL blood panel done to see what the total picture looks like.

 

[Vigilante]

hey,

update

Just went to my Dr and mentioned my symptoms and about my test scores, he didnt want to know just totally ignored and almost laughed at the suggestion that my test scores were too low for me....on fertility issue all he said was I could get a sperm test done and thats all.

infact at one point he said sperm count has nothing to do with testosterone level

the lab over here is (9.0 - 29.0 mmol) my scores are 8.9 mmol (when i was at my heaviest weight and 13.4 mmol at the fittest I have been )and lightest I will get it seems).

he tried to tell me 13.4 mmol is middle of the range too.....wth? and he refused to retest or do a complete test involving total test score.

any advice?

considering getting another appointment to see a female dr.

 

[longrob]

hey,

update

Just went to my Dr and mentioned my symptoms and about my test scores, he didnt want to know just totally ignored and almost laughed at the suggestion that my test scores were too low for me....on fertility issue all he said was I could get a sperm test done and thats all.

infact at one point he said sperm count has nothing to do with testosterone level

the lab over here is (9.0 - 29.0 mmol) my scores are 8.9 mmol (when i was at my heaviest weight and 13.4 mmol at the fittest I have been )and lightest I will get it seems).

he tried to tell me 13.4 mmol is middle of the range too.....wth? and he refused to retest or do a complete test involving total test score.

any advice?

considering getting another appointment to see a female dr.

I saw a female doctor, and she told me that it was ok for a guy in his mid 30's to have 256 total test, and 1.6 free test. The range for free test was 8.7- 25.1. She totally blew me off. Not to mention that my initial visit was due to my prostate, and terrible sides due to my hormones. Male or female, some doctors are f'ing worthless.

 

[Teutonic]

Secure ur lab s and go see another doc...or take matters in ur own hands.
Pharm companies and doc s work hand in glove and would rather prescribe anti depressant s, very profitable.. and such shit as they would testosternon.
These type s of fkn docs are as worthless as most lawyers...they don t want to heal you..but to treat you...fkn 4 ever.

It s the money..

 

[Vigilante]

another update.

Seen the Female Dr today, who point blank refused to give me a full blood test, for free testosterone/total test/LH.

Thats is two doctors at this surgery im registered with who have now said there is no grounds to retest me because my levels fall within the normal range.

my free testosterone results are as follows:

2005 - 8.9 nmol (9.0-29.0)
2006 - 8.6 nmol (9.0 - 29.0)
2010 - 13.4 nmol (9.0-29.0) ( this test was a morning blood sample which may be influenced by weight lifting and supplements I take :whey protein/tribulus/flaxseed/omega 3,6,9, multi vit, vit c

Just to recap I have been treated for depression since I was in my teens, placed on just about every anti depression pill under the sun some of which sent me into rages/anger problems.

Do anti depression pills lower T levels? wondering if that was the cause of my anger problems.

Openly told by her low mood will always be treated by anti depression pills even in the case of low testosterone...wtf!

she even asked if I get errections when I wake up and I didnt think about that till now but the answer is not very often or hardly ever....

it just feels like im being blocked by the nhs over here due to money, unfortunately I cant afford to treat myself

I hear there is a resident expert here on the forums in Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT)?

I was told I can bring proof in writing to my doctors so I need questions answering really.

What are the average free testosterone levels of a 29 year old male?

Can lower testosterone levels cause depression/mood problems?

Can anti depression pills lower testosterone levels even further?

Can testosterone levels effect sleep quality?

Does testosterone levels effect sperm count/fertility?

Do testosterone levels effect decisivness/drive?

symptoms of the last 13 years:

Depression/mood/anger problems
Sleep quality problems with insomnia bouts
excessive fat around middle
low drive/decisivness/determination
possible infertitly
tendon weakness's (multiple tendon injuries)
easy muscle fatigue.

I really do think my problem is low T, I really am going to struggle to get it treated however

 

[cjw2021]

Your free testosterone is below normal range. I had the same problem. Injections alone of testosterone will not make you feel great. What will make you feel great is freeing up your testosterone. To do that you have to call Chip. Your doc will not have the slightest clue how to drop SHBG, and you will remain fat and miserable with estrogen stress even on injections alone. My SHBG was 55, technically in range, but normally that is seen in like 80 year olds, not people my age.

 

[Vigilante]

Just been researching alot, seems I may actually have Primary Hypogonadism directly caused by surgery for an undescended testicle, I dont fully understand it but I read I should be looking for elevated FSH and LH alongside my low-normal testosterone levels.

Im in the Uk btw and cant afford to go private care so im stuck trying to convince the NHS over here to help me, I may as well bang my head against a brick wall.

 

[cjw2021]

The NHS, yikes. Good luck with that one.

 

[Vigilante]

The NHS, yikes. Good luck with that one.

I know its a joke!

anyway finally got them to agree on a blood test - Serum testosterone, LH, FSH.

im planning to try make my test score as low as possible now if anyone has any tips, I wouldnt want it coming out high now would I?

not sure what FSH means either but iv had tested before according to them and it was 3 IU? very low end of scale for that too.

 

[cjw2021]

My buddy drank a bunch of soy and stayed up all night drinking and still had a level of 520. So while that might throw your levels off a little, lol, it won't by much. My levels have always come back in the 200s, and one time in the 300s, and I eat very healthy and go to sleep on time. Chances are if your levels were that low they still are.

 

[Chaos6060]

I was in the same position as you last year with the onset of finding out about my low levels....it sux its is a battle...ur stuck feeling like shit meanwhile you've got a doc tellin u ur fine....fuck them lol its ur life don't stop fighting until u r satisfied with how you feel....your best weapon is information. I received a ton of help on the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) forums both here and on t nation. They led me in the right direction and gave me the power govern where my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) was headed...I drilled my endocinologist and we went back and forth for over an hour because I wasn't going to sit there and take his bullshit finally he gave in, I decided not to go with him ne way found and anti aging doc in my area willing to give me a deal and his thoughts about treatment were in line with mine...I cannot tell u how much better I feel...life changing since being on trt...a bit expensive but worth every penny...don't give up

 

[cjw2021]

When you think about it, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is way cheaper than diabetes/metabolic syndrome, immune dysfunction, disabling fatigue, depression, and viagra. I mean it's like 1/100th the average person's income. Chances are that income will double with increased performance anyway.

 

[Vigilante]

hey guys just an update, still struggling to get answers or help from Drs over here...

latest blood work showed:

Testosterone 10.2 (9.0-29.0)
LH 2.0 (1.0-19.0)
FSH 2.0 (1.0-19.0)

As you can see im low side of "normal" in all 3 tests. I understand LH is what tells a man to produce testosterone?

its that much of a battle the latest Dr I tried to talk to about this told me LH was purely a female hormone.

so yea....still they wont do free test score (probably expensive) or shbg and so on.

Funny fact is im eating correct im working out with heavy weights each day and sleeping 8 hours but yet my test score has come down from last check ...lol

 

[TR2838]

Hey Vigilante, You seem to be doing great! You lost ALOT of weight, good for you! I see this thread was brought back to life after 5 months.. Are you still depressed? When I was suffering from depression I couldn't even get in the gym..

JUst a couple of thoughts: I could be wrong but I don't think Chip can help you over there, and anti aging clinics can get expensive.. I wouldn't jump on TRT unless you can do it right (with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and HCG).. Also from an earlier post you seemed concerned about your fertility.. TRT will make you infertile, at least while ON, sometimes permanently.. Maybe you should keep losing the weight and you might feel better..
I hate to be discouraging you from doing something that has changed my life so much for the better, but I know from experience that testosterone shots alone will not make you feel that much better and it doesn't sound like you gonna find a doc to give a script for a proper protocol.. Good Luck and keep up the good work!

 

[TR2838]

I forgot to mention if you want to get your Test levels down below "normal" range, do heavy squats for a week every day with a low fat, high fiber diet and don't sleep the night before the blood draw.. That should bring down your test levels by a significant amount..
It sounds shady, but as you know these docs are idiots and they think low-normal is ok for a young guy.

 

[Vigilante]

hey thanks for the replys,

yeah I got this sports guy whos going to look at my diet fully for the last few weeks and is going to make changes to help me drop more fat% while gaining muscle mass.

Im at that point were I dont really want to lose weight because of the loose skin problems it would create so losing fat gaining muscle really is my only option.

 

[disabledvet33]

need advice guys very new to TRT..

A little backround I am 33 years old had a motorcycle accident on active duty during Operation Iraqi Freedom. I've been on antidepressants for 10 years not to mention pain Meds and klonopin for sleep. I recently went in to my Veterans Hospital to have my Testosterone tested I am desperate to try anything to get some quality of life back. I pulled the all nighter and alcohol and came back with testosterone at 173ng/dl. My doc prescribed 100ml every other week and I need advice what to take to help with deterring male pattern baldness....testicle atrophy.. male breasts the whole nine. Please any help or advice will be grateful. I have no idea how to maximize my benefits from TRT and stay healthy and balance my other hormones. Thanks for your time guys. Hoorah!