AI well off cycle for high BF

[gruntwerk]

Hey guys if you had read my other thread you will see that I'm prepping to run my first cycle by June first, I'm currently trying to drop a little more BF before I start to help with the estrogen conversion as well as general health. Now my question is since my BF is sitting a little high (16% maybe a touch lower) could I benefit at all from running a super low dose of Adex E3D in order to lower my estrogen a little bit to enhance the effects of cutting?

Just curious.... I looked at some stuff Google pulled up and there appears to be mixed views on it. I don't wanna just turn my lipid profile to crap or something. I will also be getting a base hormone labs done in a few days so I would wait until after then anyway.

 

[Milton]

can you share your stats?

 

[halfwit]

Hey guys if you had read my other thread you will see that I'm prepping to run my first cycle by June first, I'm currently trying to drop a little more BF before I start to help with the estrogen conversion as well as general health. Now my question is since my BF is sitting a little high (16% maybe a touch lower) could I benefit at all from running a super low dose of Adex E3D in order to lower my estrogen a little bit to enhance the effects of cutting?

Just curious.... I looked at some stuff Google pulled up and there appears to be mixed views on it. I don't wanna just turn my lipid profile to crap or something. I will also be getting a base hormone labs done in a few days so I would wait until after then anyway.

You can, but I doubt you'll see much in results unless you're hypogonadal to begin with. Running an AI by itself tells the pituitary to make more testosterone, so it can create more estradiol. The only problem is that there is a limit as to how far you can push the pituitary to action. Healthy males seeing less of a benefit, while males with low T (secondary) seeing much more.

I'd look into ephedrine and caffeine if you want to supplement for faster results.

My .02c

 

[gruntwerk]

can you share your stats?

Hi Milton,

I'm 29 and will be 30 in a few days... 6 feet tall and weigh 214ish right now. Body fat is 16-17% depending on my scales mood, I'm not sure how accurate the things are that read through your feet.

No previous cycles but will be running my first cycle of test-e around June 1st, just trying to cut a little more prior, get all the labs and testing done... etc.

I FEEL like I have low t or high e sometimes.... based on how I felt 2-3 years ago. Now I know 2-3 years ago I was younger obviously so maybe hormones have declined normally or metabolism has. Like I said I feel like it though.... I hold body fat so much more than I used too, seems like it's retaining in the breast area much more than it used too, I swear I hold weight in all the female spots right now LOL. It's like I can feel the change emotionally too, I am so much more emotional than I was 2-3 years ago which doesn't make sense to me, things that used to not bother me at all can easily get to me now. Honestly makes me feel like a chick. Libido gets really low at times too but I'm able to gain fair amounts of lean mass too so not sure if it would be low T.

I am going to see the doc on Thursday for hormone labs, I need them for precycle anyway - but hopefully this gives me more insight into this changed feeling. I can say this though - when I did try to run the test-e cycle that I had to stop, I felt like a million bucks once week 4 started to fade into week 5. I slept better, libido was great, felt strong and confident and my emotions were in check, but then I was injured so never got to finish like I said in my other thread.

So I guess I should probably wait until the labs come back before I take it halfwit? I'm guessing if I take a dose now it'll mess up the test so I wont know where my natural E hovers. So are you saying for guys with high E, then using a low dose of adex will help bring the T to E ratio closer to where it should be? What do you guys think of the stuff I describe with my symptoms?

 

[Megatron28]

Hi Milton,

I'm 29 and will be 30 in a few days... 6 feet tall and weigh 214ish right now. Body fat is 16-17% depending on my scales mood, I'm not sure how accurate the things are that read through your feet.

No previous cycles but will be running my first cycle of test-e around June 1st, just trying to cut a little more prior, get all the labs and testing done... etc.

I FEEL like I have low t or high e sometimes.... based on how I felt 2-3 years ago. Now I know 2-3 years ago I was younger obviously so maybe hormones have declined normally or metabolism has. Like I said I feel like it though.... I hold body fat so much more than I used too, seems like it's retaining in the breast area much more than it used too, I swear I hold weight in all the female spots right now LOL. It's like I can feel the change emotionally too, I am so much more emotional than I was 2-3 years ago which doesn't make sense to me, things that used to not bother me at all can easily get to me now. Honestly makes me feel like a chick. Libido gets really low at times too but I'm able to gain fair amounts of lean mass too so not sure if it would be low T.

I am going to see the doc on Thursday for hormone labs, I need them for precycle anyway - but hopefully this gives me more insight into this changed feeling. I can say this though - when I did try to run the test-e cycle that I had to stop, I felt like a million bucks once week 4 started to fade into week 5. I slept better, libido was great, felt strong and confident and my emotions were in check, but then I was injured so never got to finish like I said in my other thread.

So I guess I should probably wait until the labs come back before I take it halfwit? I'm guessing if I take a dose now it'll mess up the test so I wont know where my natural E hovers. So are you saying for guys with high E, then using a low dose of adex will help bring the T to E ratio closer to where it should be? What do you guys think of the stuff I describe with my symptoms?

Totally inaccurate. Get a Body Pod Scan. Costs about $45.

 

[gruntwerk]

Totally inaccurate. Get a Body Pod Scan. Costs about $45.

Okay thanks I will go that route!

I went to the doc today and asked about getting a hormone panel done and described some of the basic symptoms of low test, the odd part is the doc wouldn't order a lab for e2... Only total test and thyroid. She said something about estrogen not being covered, I really wish NY allowed use of the private blood labs listed on here it's such a pain in the ass....

On another note my usual doc is out on leave until June so once she comes back this will be easier, I still have to break the mid cycle bloods on her though so hope that goes well. At least I will know where my test stands... If I do have high e2 would it lower my total test? Maybe it can show up that way thru the labs.

She did wanna talk to me about the fact that my RBC is low and my hemoglobin is low at 13%. My hematocrit is okay at 40%. She kinda spooked me a bit because I have to take stool samples back to check for internal bleeding, I don't feel like I have low iron or anything though so hopefully it's just a genetic thing. I know the test will pick that right up..

 

[Megatron28]

Okay thanks I will go that route!

I went to the doc today and asked about getting a hormone panel done and described some of the basic symptoms of low test, the odd part is the doc wouldn't order a lab for e2... Only total test and thyroid. She said something about estrogen not being covered, I really wish NY allowed use of the private blood labs listed on here it's such a pain in the ass....

On another note my usual doc is out on leave until June so once she comes back this will be easier, I still have to break the mid cycle bloods on her though so hope that goes well. At least I will know where my test stands... If I do have high e2 would it lower my total test? Maybe it can show up that way thru the labs.

She did wanna talk to me about the fact that my RBC is low and my hemoglobin is low at 13%. My hematocrit is okay at 40%. She kinda spooked me a bit because I have to take stool samples back to check for internal bleeding, I don't feel like I have low iron or anything though so hopefully it's just a genetic thing. I know the test will pick that right up..

Yes, high estradiol results in lower TT all things being equal. Estradiol is aromatizes from testosterone -- in other words it converts the testosterone into something else.

 

[halfwit]

Okay thanks I will go that route!

I went to the doc today and asked about getting a hormone panel done and described some of the basic symptoms of low test, the odd part is the doc wouldn't order a lab for e2... Only total test and thyroid. She said something about estrogen not being covered, I really wish NY allowed use of the private blood labs listed on here it's such a pain in the ass....

On another note my usual doc is out on leave until June so once she comes back this will be easier, I still have to break the mid cycle bloods on her though so hope that goes well. At least I will know where my test stands... If I do have high e2 would it lower my total test? Maybe it can show up that way thru the labs.

She did wanna talk to me about the fact that my RBC is low and my hemoglobin is low at 13%. My hematocrit is okay at 40%. She kinda spooked me a bit because I have to take stool samples back to check for internal bleeding, I don't feel like I have low iron or anything though so hopefully it's just a genetic thing. I know the test will pick that right up..

Low testosterone can result in low hemoglobin/hematocrit. Mid cycle bloods? I would be very cautious with submitting blood work that has you at supraphysiological levels of testosterone. ESPECIALLY if you're seeking TRT potentially, as AAS use is considered drug abuse, with hypogonadism as a result. It's shitty that we have to hide things like that, but it's how the system is set up.

 

[gruntwerk]

Hey guys thanks for the replies, and I appreciate the advice. This is where it stands for now - the testosterone won't be back for a week as they have to send it out, my hemoglobin did go up a tiny bit with eating better, still low at 13.7% so I will be submitting the stool samples soon to be safe.

My TSH is high though at 5.39 and this spooked me, when the nurse called she said it's showing your thyroid is over active which I thought man that's odd I sure don't feel that way. So I did a little reading and seem that high TSH can be from hypothyroidism as well... My understanding is the lack of t3 or t4 from the thyroid caused the brain to release my TSH so compensate so there's a loop back. Low thyroid would explain some of the symptoms I have that I suspected the cause to be high e or low t. The tiredness and weight gain so easily are the big ones, dry skin etc.

I'm hoping it's nothing serious and it's just a low thyroid because I truly don't feel like it's too high, I did go this morning to submit labs for t3 and t4 so I'm sure that will show of its hypo versus hyper. Has me a touch nervous though, hoping it's not some crazy shit like cancer. I'm interested to see where my test stands as it's all the endocrine system...

As for the mid cycle labs, I haven't started my cycle yet I plan to in June once I know what all this stuff is about and I shed a little more BF. The reason I considered my doc is I have no other option for labs, none of the private companies operate in NY so what am I left to do? I don't like the idea of cycling and not knowing where my hematocrit or lipids stand.

On a good note if it is low thyroid then once I go on meds I should be able to get my metabolism a little higher, I should know the t3 and t4 results today.

 

[halfwit]

Lol, the nurse is a moron. A high TSH does indicate HYPOthyroidism. It kills me how these folks are supposed to be the professionals and don't understand something so common.

Oh, low T gave me hypothyroidism too. Lol. Hopefully it's an open/closed type deal here. I would definitely push for the appropriate tests to be done as the longer you're at low hormone levels, the deeper the hole you have to climb out of is going to be.

I can't remember for sure, but I think that there's a great write up in the FAQ thread about getting a blood test in NY, or one of the other dirty commie states. I do know some guys just use an address in another border state, and get a test done there. It's a bit of a hassle, but worth it - given what could happen if you submit bloods that have elevated hormones.

 

[gruntwerk]

Lol, the nurse is a moron. A high TSH does indicate HYPOthyroidism. It kills me how these folks are supposed to be the professionals and don't understand something so common.

Oh, low T gave me hypothyroidism too. Lol. Hopefully it's an open/closed type deal here. I would definitely push for the appropriate tests to be done as the longer you're at low hormone levels, the deeper the hole you have to climb out of is going to be.

I can't remember for sure, but I think that there's a great write up in the FAQ thread about getting a blood test in NY, or one of the other dirty commie states. I do know some guys just use an address in another border state, and get a test done there. It's a bit of a hassle, but worth it - given what could happen if you submit bloods that have elevated hormones.

Thanks halfwit, I could always do the labs in PA... I hate to have to drive 6 hours one way but I'll sort it out.

What would happen from submitting lab with super high TT ? I know you mentioned something about it screwing me over for TRT if needed.

My doc called me back, this thyroid test was okay so she says. My TSH came back at 4.36 and free T4 was just borderline high. I am going to go get the print out tomorrow to look at and post values here. This leads me to ask.. what tests do you think are proper for this? Not asking from a doc POV but of what you know this way I know what to request from the doctor. My TT labs will be in within a week now so we will see what that says. I do not feel like my thyroid is slightly over active and I show no real signs of having hyperthyroidism, I even had a sonogram on my thyroid a year or two back from some throat pain. I have been getting over a nasty cold and sore throat so maybe it was swollen? Not sure really... just curious of what you think I should ask for.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[halfwit]

Thanks halfwit, I could always do the labs in PA... I hate to have to drive 6 hours one way but I'll sort it out.

What would happen from submitting lab with super high TT ? I know you mentioned something about it screwing me over for TRT if needed.

My doc called me back, this thyroid test was okay so she says. My TSH came back at 4.36 and free T4 was just borderline high. I am going to go get the print out tomorrow to look at and post values here. This leads me to ask.. what tests do you think are proper for this? Not asking from a doc POV but of what you know this way I know what to request from the doctor. My TT labs will be in within a week now so we will see what that says. I do not feel like my thyroid is slightly over active and I show no real signs of having hyperthyroidism, I even had a sonogram on my thyroid a year or two back from some throat pain. I have been getting over a nasty cold and sore throat so maybe it was swollen? Not sure really... just curious of what you think I should ask for.

Thanks again for your help.

There are several consequences to having a blood test result with supraphysiological levels of testosterone. As insurance is likely paying for the visit and the test, they will also have access to the results and any doctors notes. This allows the cheapest group of individuals the opportunity to decline a wide variety of treatment down the road, and they can add it to your permanent (health reform act) medical record.

The doctor then faces a moral dilemma in which they are bound by an oath to do no harm, but assisting an individual with a proven track record of drug abuse (blood test results) with procuring the said drug puts them in jeopardy with the DEA as it is a controlled substance.

This likely leads to them being unable to help you, but likely referring you to another doctor. Which of course leads to the same situation all over again as big brother does keep tabs on scripts for controlled substances.

You may get lucky, you may not. I personally don't think it's worth the risk at all.

I would ask for T3, T4, reverse T3 and T4, free T3, TSH, prolactin, estradiol, SHBG, cortisol, and glucose/HBA1C. There are a couple more that can be pulled, but usually that's to differentiate if the cause is autoimmune or or not. (Hashimoto's, etc)

An overactive thyroid will have the OPPOSITE TSH indicator, as the body is trying to decrease the conversion of T4 to T3. The nurse may have misspoke, and said overactive in that it's being forced to convert at a higher rate than normal due to insufficiency.

I hope that makes sense.