Androgel a good first step?

F

FreeMason

RookieNo0b
Hi - sorry for the novice thread here. I've read over a lot of threads about where to start and how to start it.

I am 33, 160lbs and I recently (~2 months ago) had my test levels checked and they came in at 262. I know that's pretty low compared to a lot of people. I've had my pituitary and thyroid checked and they came back fine with no problems. I just have lost all drive for sex and it was pretty damn sudden!! I used to be a sex machine, up til about 1 year ago. Then my girlfriend moved in, i lost interest and now i don't even care for sex that much. I have worked out since I was about 16 years old and I have a pretty good build with maybe 18%-20% bf (i'm getting old so i notice it's started to slowly creep onto my body more)

Anyway, I'm thinking about trying steroids but I talked my doctor into prescribing me androgel first.

Questions:

1) At my test levels, if i get off the stuff, will my "natural" levels return with proper treatment or am i stuck with androgel forever?
2) do I need to take any anti-E chemicals to take care of "gyno"?

I just want my sex drive back to where it was a year or two ago.

3) Will steroids help my libido bounce back?
4) Is there any difference in injectable test and androgel and the effect it may have if i stop taking it?

I know I haven't asked all the questions I have but I have been reading a lot and some questions came up that I hadn't seen answered.

Thanks for your responses and please feel free to give me a hard time if need be.

Cheers
 
1) the androgel could help bring about the test levels you used to have, but I'm not a pro on older dudes(or use outside of a BB mentality)...If you take the proper post cycle therapy (pct) precautions that will definatly help you to maintain the test levels reach while on androgel
2) I don't know very much about androgel, but my guess is that it could cause gyno in sensitive individuals, before buying/considering any anti estrogens I'd talk to your doc about it because it would be alot nicer if you could obtain them legally with a perscription covered by insurrance.
3) depends on the steroid
4) injectable test is MUCH more potent than androgel. To my understanding the androgel packets come in smaller dosage sized packages. I honestly don't know very much about androgel but if say you were to cold turkey stop your test cycle, you could have some pretty negative side effects and your body would have a hard time bouncing back. But seeing as your being supervised by a doctor your much better off than most.
 
Ok, so I should ask him about injectable Cypionate, from what I've gathered by reading other posts on this forum.

And, should I also ask him about anti-estrogen therapy?

The problem with this doc is he's just too eager to prescribe me whatever i ask him to. I asked him if there were any side effects to androgel, he said, "nah." I asked, "how long should I stay on it?" He said, forever, basically.

I know that's bullshit because I know there have to be side effects so I don't know if I trust his advice.

Thank you for the response.
 
FreeMason said:
Ok, so I should ask him about injectable Cypionate, from what I've gathered by reading other posts on this forum.

And, should I also ask him about anti-estrogen therapy?

The problem with this doc is he's just too eager to prescribe me whatever i ask him to. I asked him if there were any side effects to androgel, he said, "nah." I asked, "how long should I stay on it?" He said, forever, basically.

I know that's bullshit because I know there have to be side effects so I don't know if I trust his advice.


Thank you for the response.
Click to expand...

No, actually he is right - thats why he is the doc - your just not hearing what you want to hear, so your questioning the answer. If you need testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) at 33 then you are gonna need it for life. BUT - testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is NOT always Testosterone addition - it could be the addition of Clomid to increase HPTA function and cause higher test level. So, they key here is knowing what is causing your low test level (262 is way low). It's either the pituitary not producing LH/FSH or its your testicals not producing test. To find out the answer, you need an Endocronologist and a few tests. The ENdo would NOT put you on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) like your doc did without more info and 4 months worth of tests and level measuring. You need to know what Free Testosterone was. IF it was high, then you are producing but not absorbing - that does not mean you need TRT.

Long story short - get your doc to precribe as much test cyp as you can and fill it but dont take it. go see Endo and get proper analysis. If you see the endo first, you will NEVER get that script. Fuck the gel - its bullshit and rubs off on your girlfriend and pets - you want your chick on test?? hope you like a mustache.

Dude - see an endo - you are too young to screw up.
 
FYI - a "sudden" drop in test and sex drive is probably a life-time thing dude. That is EXACLTY what happened to me - it sucked. If you were a stoner and it was gradual from the pot then that would be different.

Don't fret dude - there are no sides with mild testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to speak of and youll get bigger and more ripped than ever.

Just take care to talk to an endo
 
fleverglades said:
No, actually he is right - thats why he is the doc - your just not hearing what you want to hear, so your questioning the answer. If you need testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) at 33 then you are gonna need it for life. BUT - testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is NOT always Testosterone addition - it could be the addition of Clomid to increase HPTA function and cause higher test level. So, they key here is knowing what is causing your low test level (262 is way low). It's either the pituitary not producing LH/FSH or its your testicals not producing test. To find out the answer, you need an Endocronologist and a few tests. The ENdo would NOT put you on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) like your doc did without more info and 4 months worth of tests and level measuring. You need to know what Free Testosterone was. IF it was high, then you are producing but not absorbing - that does not mean you need TRT.

Long story short - get your doc to precribe as much test cyp as you can and fill it but dont take it. go see Endo and get proper analysis. If you see the endo first, you will NEVER get that script. Fuck the gel - its bullshit and rubs off on your girlfriend and pets - you want your chick on test?? hope you like a mustache.

Dude - see an endo - you are too young to screw up.
Click to expand...

Flever - thank you very much for this response. I really appreciate it. I would spend time on here looking up answers myself but there's so much information and it's not connected so very hard to get things organized.

I will take your advice and talk to an Endo and I'm seeing my doc next week to see if he'll give me some injectable stuff and maybe anti-e stuff to discuss with him as well.

I'll post back here after i get more info.

Again, thank you for your awesome response.

Mason
 
No problem dude - just want you to avoid the crap I went through. tell your doc you want injectable not gel because you have a girlfriend that is trying to get pregnant in your bed and you dont want the test rubbing off on her (cause sterility in females). Also, tell him you want to do injections yourself - I do my own.

Realize that the Endo is the LAST guy that is gonna put you on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) - he will try to avaoid it by using Clomid, I bet. LEt me know. If your LH is WAY high and total test way low, then you need testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) cause your nuts are not producing despite your Pit telling them to. Please post ALL of your test results ASAP.
 
I found..............

Androgel is junk, I spent about 1 and a half years on that stuff, never increased my levels and like stated above is a all around mess and a wate of time. I had similair levels under 300 (I am 35)on the blood tests and had gyno. Estrogen had taken over. now I am on test cyp from the doc.

most important thing I wanted to say is:

It depends on your docs experience/knowledge, some do not know much about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) mine is rather ignorant. take it upon yourself to learn (as stated above) at least your dr. soundswilling to help. Mine will not give any anti-estrogens
 
Androgel is terrible. Flat out. Waste of time. Does not work. Should be taken off the market unless it is being used by a female to gradually up her testosterone without wanting to run the risk of virilization. There is no substitute for injectable therapies. Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any more questions. I'd love to help you.
 
Visited with doctor yesterday

Hi guys

Thanks for all the guidance.

I met with the doc yesterday and asked him for the injectable stuff. I told him my girlfriend is pregnant and I don't want this stuff rubbing off on her. This is true. She is pregnant.

He said it doesn't rub off, it's blah blah and said no to the injectable stuff. I don't think he wanted me doing it myself. I didn't ask him however if he'd do it for me.

I did say I wanted to talk to an endocrinologist and he actually referred me to one. He did a second blood test so it would be ready for the endo. I think it will be interesting because I haven't started taking the andro yet and he thinks I'm not taking enough. Whatever.

So, my question is what questions should I be asking the Endo? What levels should I ask about? What causes and symptoms should I talk to them about?

I'll be picking up the results next week but the Endo isn't available 'til february. I'll look for one that can see me sooner in the mean time.

It's really frustrating. The doc made me feel like I was a druggie. He asked me if my girlfriend was really pregnant. Not that I blame him, though.

Anyway, please let me know exactly what I need to ask the endo.

Thanks for all the help guys
 
Your doc is an idiot. Get the tests from the endo and Chip and the rest of us will help you read them. Post everything. Until then, not much we can do.
 
Your sex drive dropped off when she moved in? I was at about 290 before hrt and my sex drive was fine. Could be something psycological? Test out my theory, guarantee you will have tons of drive for the next hot girl you pick up at a bar lol. Have you done aas before? You could just need some clomid? Are you on any other medication ie. propecia? Also what time did you take the blood test? take a few tests especially in the morning to get a true reading.
 
stevonov said:
Your sex drive dropped off when she moved in? I was at about 290 before hrt and my sex drive was fine. Could be something psycological? Test out my theory, guarantee you will have tons of drive for the next hot girl you pick up at a bar lol. Have you done aas before? You could just need some clomid? Are you on any other medication ie. propecia? Also what time did you take the blood test? take a few tests especially in the morning to get a true reading.
Click to expand...

Haha yea I thought about that. I've had cycles where I was completely not in the mood for about a week but then it bounced right back but this time it just never came back.

Last few weeks though it has come back a little which is great.

I did get my 2nd blood test results today from my doc. I have my endo appt on the 15th of this month.

Results for this last blood test which was taken around 3pm on the 12th of Jan. I hadn't eaten lunch but I had breakfast that day around 10:30am or so.

Total: 362 (range 250-1100 ng/dL)
Total Free: 71.8 (range 46-224 pg/mL)
Bioavailable: 166.5 (range 110-575 ng/dL)
SHBG: 17 (range 8-48 nmol/L)
Serum Albumin: 5.1 (range 3.6-5.1 g/dL)

So, the total went up a good 100 ng/dL since my last test in August. I have been taking 50 mg zinc supplement pills every day, could this have raised it back up?

I was pulled into the doc's oddly enough because my Calcium and Potassium levels were really high. Normal potassium is 5.3, mine was around 6. A little worrisome because high levels can cause paralysis, so I'm going to have another test done tomorrow early morning when i'm fasting.

Anyway, just thought I'd post those until I get to the endo next week.

Take care guys
 
Endo Test Results

So I got my test results last month and here they are:

Total and (Range)

Serum Test = 390 ng/dl (280-800)
Test % Free+Weakly bound= 23.8 (9 - 46)
Test F/W bound = 92.8 ng/dl (40-250)
LH = 2.9 mIU/mL (1.7-8.6)
Prolactin = 6.6 ng/mL (4 - 15.2)
FSH Serum = 3.9 mIU/mL (1.5 - 12.4)
PTH, intact = 34 pg/mL (15-65)

Vit D = 27.6 ng/mL (32 - 100)

Obviously she doesn't want to put me on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). I still get the androgel from my doc. I want to do one cycle (2 pump fulls) and then come off it. What would I take in order to keep my levels where they are once I stop? Clomid? Or something else? Would I have to do another cycle in a couple of months, or could I wait 6 months?

Would I be better off doing a true cycle on gear?

Does vit D have anything to do with anything? She says it's low and has put me on 50,000 IU once a week for 6 weeks then 3000 IU a week per day after that and then a follow up in June.

WTF is wrong with me if it's not my test? I know it's still a little low for my age (33) but then if it's not that then what?
 
Last edited:
It could be a Zinc deficiency. Having low levels of zinc can kill your sex drive. Try supplementing with it, or eating food high in zinc.
 
Quit jacking around with docs who have no idea how you actually feel and are only willing to treat your numbers. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to attain test ranges (both total and free) in the upper 3rd of the reference range. There's no crime in wanting to feel better and most men feel best if their test is in the upper 3rd of the reference range. I don't give a fuck what any doc tells you to the contrary.

Contact Chip. Complete his paperwork and send your blood test result into him and you'll be able to run a real testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) program. Seriously.
 
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