Androgel questions

[Archetype]

Androgel questions for the docs

I want to boost my T levels to high normal (or even slightly above) to see how I feel.

I'm NOT looking for supraphysiological levels and I think that Androgel is the best choice.

I have done some research but there I still have some questions:

My baseline is 766.

1) How much would 50mg ED bump me up to?

I don't get the studies I read on the Androgel literature found on Allthingsmale.com. Can someone please enlighten me?

In Figure 1, at time 0, the subjects levels were like 580 (50mg) and 800 (100mg) - how is that hypogonadism (the study was done on hypogonadal men)?

And the T elevation seems to be close to baseline. It peaks at 2 hours (only a slight increase from baseline?) and is fairly close to baseline throughout the day (and at times even below baseline)???

I suspect those are their "end" levels. If so, what where their "start" levels?

I guess what I'm trying to determine is:

2) How much increase (in ng/dl) does 50mg give you?

3) What is the conversion from mgs testosterone to ng/dl blood levels?

4) Is 50mg a day the same as only 35 mg a week injected?
50mgs x 7= 350mgs. Androgel literature claims it delivers 10% of the testosterone so that is 35mg.



Say the answer is 500 ng/dl.

Would I get 766 + 500 = 1266 ng/dl? Or would suppression cause it to be like 900? Would there even be supression?

5) Is supression caused by:

a) ANY endogenous hormones
b) T levels above a certain number REGARDLESS if it is endogenous or exogenous? If so, what is that number?


And lastly, how can I obtain just a weeks trail?

Thanks.


EDIT: 50 mgs, 350 mgs and 100 mgs

 

[Stillgoing]

Some of the answers:

- your natural test levels are already high normal. I doubt this product will provide the results for you that it provides in someone with low test
- 5mg per day androgel would not equal 35mg injectable
- Any exo test will cause suppression. I think the jury is out on a short-term run of androgel would cause partial or complete suppression, but, longer term use of androgel will likely cause significant suppression.
- A weeks trial is useless. A month would be a minimum period to see if it is really making you feel different.

 

[thunderson411]

low?

dude,, "766"? Had mine tested while totally off for several months, was 264, and 282ng/dl. Doc wouldnt give me shit! Said it was "low normal". Do my own Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) now..

 

[Archetype]

Thanks for your input stillgoing.

Thunderson, I didn't say it was low but my last test before that was 341 (also free of androgens) so I guess my average is somewhere in between.

It was just that I felt better mentally on 4AD (but it also made me more "numb" sexually) so I was considering Androgel.

 

[Hey Mister]

bump

 

[SWALE]

There simply is no way to predict what serum T level a given transdermal (or IM, for that matter) testosterone preparation will take you to. That is why knowledgeable Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) docs retest. BTW, with the transdermals, we retest in two weeks. With the test cyp, I wait a month.

Also, with the transdermals you must also monitor DHT. You won't have a problem with DHT with Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) IM dosages, but the transdermals are a different story.

Based on experience, I would predict that 5mg per day of Androgel will take you above phgysiological range, and therefore suppress your HPTA completely. Addition of exogenous testosterone and subsequent HPTA suppression is sort of a sliding scale.

Finally, Androgel is by far my favorite transdermal testosterone delivery system.

 

[Drveejay11]

Also, with the transdermals you must also monitor DHT. You won't have a problem with DHT with Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) IM dosages, but the transdermals are a different story.

Interesting....based on?

 

[SWALE]

...the fact that transdermals are known to dramatically increase DHT levels. To correct myself, they CAN do that. This is widely known amongst Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) specialists.

 

[Archetype]

Thanks for your input SWALE. Is there no THEORETICAL formula for the conversion from mgs of bioavailable (I mean absorbed, not free) test to ng/dl blood levels?

Is injection assumed to have 100% bioavailability?

...the fact that transdermals are known to dramatically increase DHT levels. To correct myself, they CAN do that. This is widely known amongst Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) specialists.

What is the mechanism behind this? Perhaps the skin has more 5-AR enzyme than muscle or blood?

 

[SWALE]

Nope. The only way to tell is to try it, then draw labs to see where it takes you. I have guys who went from around 100ng/dL to supraphysiological range on 100mgs of Upjohn per week. Yet one patient takes 400mgs to get him from 300ng/dL to 850. Sometimes a guy will take quite a bit to get him to a given serum concentration, but then just a smidgeon (technical term) more takes him waaaay over the top. There is no cookie cutter recipe for doing it right. It can take a few months to get a guy tuned up properly (at least he is feeling better and better all the time). But it's worth it both for the patient, and for me (as a point of pride).

Also, some men just don't get good conversion from the transdermals. This is how several of them came to me: their own local docs would only work with Androgel or patches. I have to say, I like and respect Androgel very much, and will use it everywhere I can.

 

[xtinct]

I have guys who went from around 100ng/dL to supraphysiological range on 100mgs of Upjohn per week. Yet one patient takes 400mgs to get him from 300ng/dL to 850.

That's very interesting. If this holds true at higher doses, it would explain why some guys can make great gains on as little as 400-500mg WK, while others (like myself) need at least 1g WK to see significant results.

 

[SWALE]

I appreciate that you are REALLY thinking about this stuff. However, I always want to be careful to keep separate that which happens within physiological range and all else above (because that is a completely different hormonal environment). This discipline in our thinking can help us from drawing unwarranted conclusions from very limited scientific studies.

But, yes, IMPO, your point is a good one--there is TREMENDOUS variability in how we react to hormonal supplementation.