Anecdotal Evidence

[Thoroughbred72]

This may be a little bit on the long side, of a post, so please bear with me, if you are kind enough to read through this.

Im 40 years old, and last year, I started testosterone, due to low T. I was eventually approved for 300 mg test, a week, via injection. This program also incorporated an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (anastrozole), and HCG. In the first three months, my body LOVED the T and responded extremely well. Within about three weeks, tops, maybe 4 weeks, I was experiencing GREAT energy, incredible stamina in the gym, increased muscle size and strength, greatly improved muscle tone, a vicious appetite, and extremely positive mood and sense of well-being. At about the 10 week mark, I had lost all the belly fat, love handles, 'butt flubber,' and gained 30 lbs. of pure, upper body muscle (I was getting a lot of compliments from the guys in the gym that I workout out with). My body fat had dropped to such a low level that even while breating (not purposefully flexing), you could see the clear definition of my abs, contracting and relaxing as my lungs would expand (I'm not sure what the body fat percentage was, but I would suspect around 5%). My shoulders were buldging out and all my greatly enlarged muscles were completely ripped. My regular shirt size, that I had worn for most of my adult life, were so tight that I was getting ready to go out and refil my closet with shirts that were one size larger. When I woke up in the early AM, to go to the gym, I COULDN'T WAIT to get there and start lifting. My gym workouts took on a life of their own, and I was practically lifting the whole gym (at least it felt like it). When I would finish with my workout, I would drink my whey protein shake, and within 30-45 minutes, I would be completely rejuvinated. I felt like I could go back in the gym and do it all over again (sometimes I felt like I hadn't worked hard enough, because I could recover so fast). I felt and looked great. However, after the 12th week, I started to notice that the ripped muscles were slowly getting covered with 'thick skin' (the low body fat was disappearing). My life long problem with migraine headaches (for which I was on prescription meds for) went away, previous issues with fatigue, depression and or anxiety all disappeared. I felt like tackling the world.

Over the next several months (after the initial 3 months), I lost all the size, mass, and some of the strength that I gained during the first three months. My appetitie went down, I gained all the belly fat, love handles, and butt flubber back, and the shirts that were getting way too tight, were now fitting just fine. I would wake up for my morning weight room session (5:00 am), and barely felt like getting out of bed, much less to do a grueling weight/gym workout. I lost muscle tone, strength, energy, and my workouts suffered (I could no longer work at the level of intensity that I had during the first three months). Some of the migraine headaches returned, and so did the regular depression, and, or, anxiety, that I would experience from time to time. I kept calling my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) provider, and asking for help, but I just kept getting told that they weren't sure what the problem was. They advised me to "just keep taking your shots."

Finally, a blood test was done, but it didn't reveal much. It said that my Total T was '967,' and my free T was 33.1 pg/ml. My estradiol was a little high, but they stated that it wouldn't have any impact on decreasing muscle mass/size, when the over T level was as high as it was. A few months later, I had to stop taking T, due to health issue that I had to deal with. I was off T for about 4-5 months, after the health issue was addressed, and have since resumed.

I have now been on T again, for one month. At first, I started at 300 mg of T (200mg cyp./50mg prop. in the 1st injection and then an additional 50mg of prop. half way through the week) for the first two weeks. I noticed that in the first two weeks, of the initial 3 months last year, that I was already feeling better and getting stronger. Howver, I noticed that I wasn't feeling any different. Since I am technically approved for 400 mgs/week, if I want to do that much, I decided come the 3rd week, that i would take two different injects, spaced out from each other, over the next two weeks. Therefore, during the 3rd week and 4th week, I took 400mgs, in an effort to get T levels up. So far, I feel and am not experiencing any results.

By this time, I would not be experiencing the great energy, increase in strength, and muscle size (at least on some level), but I not experiencing anything. I have not gained so much as one pound, and NO energy. When I walk out of the gym, after pushing very hard, with great intensity, I feel sick to my stomach and nauseaus. I have NO appetite, and cannot recover for hours afterwards. The other day, I worked my legs, and my heart was racing, and extreme fatigue set in (for me, it's a clear sign of over training). Now, it seems that I am loosing a little mass, I have NO improvement of muscle tone. The other night, feelings of depression/hopeless set in to the point that I felt like I could not get up and take care of routine chores to prepare for the next day. No, have not run any blood tests, because even when I was experiencing the same symptoms the first time, my T levels showed '967,' and my free T was rated as 'High.' I am not following a detailed, specific diet plan, but eating is fairly clean. And even if it wasn't, why would I have experienced such great success during the initial 3 months of T, but then it all disappeared, despite continuing my injects, when my diet didn't change?

I have done a lot research recently, trying to find any reason that the T should not be working. Yes, I know diet is key, but I wasn't on any specificd diet the first time around, and yet, I had such phenomenal growth. Also, please don't ask about 'gear;' I don't use gear, this is all pharmaceutical grade T, that is prescribed. I know this is anecdotal evidence, but it's also a pretty clear indicator it's not working, since I have prior experience with this, and since the numbers may read a high level, but all the initial positive effects have disappeared. Some have reported that it could be 'receptor down grade' issue. However, there are now several studies that have been conducted that showed that the receptor dow grade belief is a myth; it was believed for a long time, but studies have shown that it is not true; as a matter of fact, they showed that heavy weight training increases the amount of testosterone receptors, as new, and larger muscle tissue is formed, as the person continues weight training.

I know that no one has a definitive answer, but I need some good information or possibilities that explain the occurrence of the testosterone having such great results for me, in the initial 3 months, but then stopped working and why it doesn't seem to be working at all now. I have spoke to a leading expert in testosterone, and specifically Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), and he stated that he didn't know either. He reported, as I have now found lots of men reporting on the net, that many men are now saying that the test is no longer working for them and their body has resorted back to the low T symptoms that plagued them before; so this is a regular reporting issue now.

Can you help?








http://www.steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/591568-trt-seems-not-working.html

 

[sadpanda]

man sorry for being a dick but tl;dr

 

[Thoroughbred72]

Evidence that is only Anecdotal

This may be a little bit on the long side, of a post, so please bear with me, if you are kind enough to read through this.

Im 40 years old, and last year, I started testosterone, due to low T. I was eventually approved for 300 mg test, a week, via injection. This program also incorporated an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (anastrozole), and HCG. In the first three months, my body LOVED the T and responded extremely well. Within about three weeks, tops, maybe 4 weeks, I was experiencing GREAT energy, incredible stamina in the gym, increased muscle size and strength, greatly improved muscle tone, a vicious appetite, and extremely positive mood and sense of well-being. At about the 10 week mark, I had lost all the belly fat, love handles, 'butt flubber,' and gained 30 lbs. of pure, upper body muscle (I was getting a lot of compliments from the guys in the gym that I workout out with). My body fat had dropped to such a low level that even while breating (not purposefully flexing), you could see the clear definition of my abs, contracting and relaxing as my lungs would expand (I'm not sure what the body fat percentage was, but I would suspect around 5%). My shoulders were buldging out and all my greatly enlarged muscles were completely ripped. My regular shirt size, that I had worn for most of my adult life, were so tight that I was getting ready to go out and refil my closet with shirts that were one size larger. When I woke up in the early AM, to go to the gym, I COULDN'T WAIT to get there and start lifting. My gym workouts took on a life of their own, and I was practically lifting the whole gym (at least it felt like it). When I would finish with my workout, I would drink my whey protein shake, and within 30-45 minutes, I would be completely rejuvinated. I felt like I could go back in the gym and do it all over again (sometimes I felt like I hadn't worked hard enough, because I could recover so fast). I felt and looked great. However, after the 12th week, I started to notice that the ripped muscles were slowly getting covered with 'thick skin' (the low body fat was disappearing). My life long problem with migraine headaches (for which I was on prescription meds for) went away, previous issues with fatigue, depression and or anxiety all disappeared. I felt like tackling the world.

Over the next several months (after the initial 3 months), I lost all the size, mass, and some of the strength that I gained during the first three months. My appetitie went down, I gained all the belly fat, love handles, and butt flubber back, and the shirts that were getting way too tight, were now fitting just fine. I would wake up for my morning weight room session (5:00 am), and barely felt like getting out of bed, much less to do a grueling weight/gym workout. I lost muscle tone, strength, energy, and my workouts suffered (I could no longer work at the level of intensity that I had during the first three months). Some of the migraine headaches returned, and so did the regular depression, and, or, anxiety, that I would experience from time to time. I kept calling my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) provider, and asking for help, but I just kept getting told that they weren't sure what the problem was. They advised me to "just keep taking your shots."

Finally, a blood test was done, but it didn't reveal much. It said that my Total T was '967,' and my free T was 33.1 pg/ml. My estradiol was a little high, but they stated that it wouldn't have any impact on decreasing muscle mass/size, when the over T level was as high as it was. A few months later, I had to stop taking T, due to health issue that I had to deal with. I was off T for about 4-5 months, after the health issue was addressed, and have since resumed.

I have now been on T again, for one month. At first, I started at 300 mg of T (200mg cyp./50mg prop. in the 1st injection and then an additional 50mg of prop. half way through the week) for the first two weeks. I noticed that in the first two weeks, of the initial 3 months last year, that I was already feeling better and getting stronger. Howver, I noticed that I wasn't feeling any different. Since I am technically approved for 400 mgs/week, if I want to do that much, I decided come the 3rd week, that i would take two different injects, spaced out from each other, over the next two weeks. Therefore, during the 3rd week and 4th week, I took 400mgs, in an effort to get T levels up. So far, I feel and am not experiencing any results.

By this time, I would not be experiencing the great energy, increase in strength, and muscle size (at least on some level), but I not experiencing anything. I have not gained so much as one pound, and NO energy. When I walk out of the gym, after pushing very hard, with great intensity, I feel sick to my stomach and nauseaus. I have NO appetite, and cannot recover for hours afterwards. The other day, I worked my legs, and my heart was racing, and extreme fatigue set in (for me, it's a clear sign of over training). Now, it seems that I am loosing a little mass, I have NO improvement of muscle tone. The other night, feelings of depression/hopeless set in to the point that I felt like I could not get up and take care of routine chores to prepare for the next day. No, have not run any blood tests, because even when I was experiencing the same symptoms the first time, my T levels showed '967,' and my free T was rated as 'High.' I am not following a detailed, specific diet plan, but eating is fairly clean. And even if it wasn't, why would I have experienced such great success during the initial 3 months of T, but then it all disappeared, despite continuing my injects, when my diet didn't change?

I have done a lot research recently, trying to find any reason that the T should not be working. Yes, I know diet is key, but I wasn't on any specificd diet the first time around, and yet, I had such phenomenal growth. Also, please don't ask about 'gear;' I don't use gear, this is all pharmaceutical grade T, that is prescribed. I know this is anecdotal evidence, but it's also a pretty clear indicator it's not working, since I have prior experience with this, and since the numbers may read a high level, but all the initial positive effects have disappeared. Some have reported that it could be 'receptor down grade' issue. However, there are now several studies that have been conducted that showed that the receptor dow grade belief is a myth; it was believed for a long time, but studies have shown that it is not true; as a matter of fact, they showed that heavy weight training increases the amount of testosterone receptors, as new, and larger muscle tissue is formed, as the person continues weight training.

I know that no one has a definitive answer, but I need some good information or possibilities that explain the occurrence of the testosterone having such great results for me, in the initial 3 months, but then stopped working and why it doesn't seem to be working at all now. I have spoke to a leading expert in testosterone, and specifically Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), and he stated that he didn't know either. He reported, as I have now found lots of men reporting on the net, that many men are now saying that the test is no longer working for them and their body has resorted back to the low T symptoms that plagued them before; so this is a regular reporting issue now.

Can you help?

 

[Thoroughbred72]

what?

 

[halfwit]

what?

He's just being a turd and saying "too long; didn't read". Don't mind that, it just comes with the territory of posting in the AAS section.

For starters, how are you being prescribed 400mg/wk? That dose is WELL beyond supraphysiological levels of testosterone, which most doctors are very nervous about exceeding as the DEA takes notice of this. You are taking 'gear' as that is the nickname given to AAS, which regardless of your source (pharmacy versus UGL) is still AAS. As such, I do wonder about your estradiol levels as coming in high (you never stated your actual values) can most certainly bring about anxiety and depression.

I agree that the idea of receptor desensitization is most likely not an issue and I have a feeling that your initial magnificent gains were due to your body feeding off of fat stores that had accumulated over time combined with a diet that while it may have been clean, lacked enough calories to sustain any additional muscle gain. Thirty pounds in three months of pure muscle is not only unlikely, but I suspect that a great portion of that was water weight gain due to higher levels of estrogen. How much Aromatase inhibitor (AI) are you taking? I would first look at your diet, as it is seldom as good as we like to think it is, and would even post a thread in the diet section to see what changes you can make.

Also, so you have an idea as to what that body fat percentage looks like (5% is the realm of professional body builders pre-contest) here's a really good comparison chart I found a long time ago that seems pretty accurate:

As you can see, being able to just see the outline of your abs at 5% is grossly understating this level of body fat, which leads me to believe you may also be seeing things in a different aspect than what is truly there. Please don't take this as disrespect, but I know men that are in ridiculous physical condition that feel they're always getting smaller or weaker when they clearly are nowhere near losing size or strength. This is a form of body dysmorphia, which many of us suffer that spend any appreciable amount of time in the gym.

I honestly think that your "HRT" (it's really a mild cycle) is working fine, but you have several factors to rule out before looking at your hormone intake. First would be diet, as that is responsible for ANY changes you make to your physical composition, then I would look at your estrogen (estradiol) as that could be the source of many of your woes. Keep in mind, even those of us that take far greater amounts of AAS than what you're currently on have our 'bad days' in the gym, and choose to either push through it or accept that we're not always able to give it 150% every time we step in that door. The mind is a powerful thing, and I think once you focus on the factors that are within your control, the rest will fall into place. Oh, I do suggest getting a sleep study done if you haven't. Sleep plays an enormous role in our physical development, and it's quite possible that this could be a potential bottle-neck on your road to happiness.

My .02c

 

[Rumpy]

Am I the only one that thinks the 40% guy looks like sad panda? I mean his avi, kind of big, white and sad.

 

[halfwit]

Hahahaha. As someone who has been at 40% bf, I can tell you - it does make you a sad panda.

 

[Rumpy]

Yeah, I hate to say it, but my first thought when I saw those pics was oh shit, really, is that what that looks like. I've never had my BF measured, and I guess I'm kind of in denial. 10 years ago a probably was at 40, but now I'm a probably a lot closer to 30 even though I like to think I'm under 25. I'm just sure I have a rippin' six pack, even though it's sitting behind a keg.

 

[Thoroughbred72]

Hello halfwit,

Thanks for taking the time to read. I will answer your questions, and make comments that may provide some info., in an effort to get some more specific info., to solve my issue.

1. When the effectiveness of T was not working well, at that time, I was given the 'OK,' by my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) provider to go up to 400mg. I was already prescribed 300 mg. However, I was told NOT to go over 400mg, for any reason. They told me, "Well, you can TRY it, if you want."

2. About a decade ago, I went through a 6 1/2 month long police academy, where every few weeks, we had our bodies 'clipped,' as they like to call it, to measure our body fat percentage (they took clipping measurements from our waist, quadracep area, and chest, if I remember correctly). From the beginning to the end, I always had 6% body fat during the whole academy, so I have a fairly good idea what body fat percentage looks like. I would say, that today, my body fat percentage is probably around the 25% area. Also, even though I didn't think about it much, I was working out then at 5:00am every day, on an empty stomach. I would only eat bfast AFTER MY workout. Today, Ive been working out in the evening, after I get off from work.

3. In Nov. of 2012, when the blood test was done, to see why the T was no longer working (this was about 7 months into taking T), my estradiol level was 78.9. At that time, my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) provider was telling me only take 1 mg of anas., 24 hrs after my weekly inject. I switched Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) providers, to get better service, and they increased my anas. to 1 mg, 3x a week. However, for the last 4 weeks, I decided to chop the 1 mg pills in half, with a pill splitter, and take .5mg every day, before bed. I wonder if my 4-5 month stint off of T would have dropped the estradiol level, naturally?


4. I guess it's possible that it wasn't all 'pure muscle' gains, but I went from 195 bls, to 225 lbs., in about 8-9 weeks. Like I wrote, I was busting through my shirts to the point, it was embarassing to go out in my normal clothes cuz they just didn't fit anymore. It kinda looked stupid, but again, after about the 10th week, it all slowly faded away.

 

[halfwit]

Hello halfwit,

Thanks for taking the time to read. I will answer your questions, and make comments that may provide some info., in an effort to get some more specific info., to solve my issue.

1. When the effectiveness of T was not working well, at that time, I was given the 'OK,' by my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) provider to go up to 400mg. I was already prescribed 300 mg. However, I was told NOT to go over 400mg, for any reason. They told me, "Well, you can TRY it, if you want."

Yeah, I wonder about the legitimacy of your Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) clinic as it is very rare to see dosages over 200mg/wk. I only know this because I had to pull teeth to get 250mg/wk with my doctor as 200mg/wk just wasn't cutting it. I'm at a very happy 1100ng/dL total test level with an E2 of 25-30pg/mL which I can say after a very long time of suffering from low-T was a godsend. I wasn't implying that you're doing anything wrong, just that I think your provider is pushing more drugs on you than you truly need. I'm very surprised that it required so much so elevate your blood serum levels, but I'm happy for you that you were able to achieve them. I'm partly jealous I have to admit as I wish I could get my doc to give me the go-ahead to run 400mg/wk year round as it feels very good to be at a high level of test in my opinion.

2. About a decade ago, I went through a 6 1/2 month long police academy, where every few weeks, we had our bodies 'clipped,' as they like to call it, to measure our body fat percentage (they took clipping measurements from our waist, quadracep area, and chest, if I remember correctly). From the beginning to the end, I always had 6% body fat during the whole academy, so I have a fairly good idea what body fat percentage looks like. I would say, that today, my body fat percentage is probably around the 25% area. Also, even though I didn't think about it much, I was working out then at 5:00am every day, on an empty stomach. I would only eat bfast AFTER MY workout. Today, Ive been working out in the evening, after I get off from work.

Okay, so you were at a low body fat range and you're now in an average area. This was confusing to me as seemed you were stating you were still at 5% body fat and saw a 30lb gain in such a short period of time. Believe me, I know how hard it is to maintain that kind of composition as I too once was sub-10% bf and am struggling to get there once again. This does confuse me a little as that is still a very large gain in bodyweight in such a short period of time though. Did you increase your caloric intake greatly at the same time? I know that testosterone can stimulate appetite as it increases your metabolism.

3. In Nov. of 2012, when the blood test was done, to see why the T was no longer working (this was about 7 months into taking T), my estradiol level was 78.9. At that time, my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) provider was telling me only take 1 mg of anas., 24 hrs after my weekly inject. I switched Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) providers, to get better service, and they increased my anas. to 1 mg, 3x a week. However, for the last 4 weeks, I decided to chop the 1 mg pills in half, with a pill splitter, and take .5mg every day, before bed. I wonder if my 4-5 month stint off of T would have dropped the estradiol level, naturally?

Have you had a blood test recently? 78.9pg/mL is certainly high enough of a level of estrogen to cause you to hold onto a bit of water. I can see that this could cause you to put on a good solid 10lbs of body water, giving an appearance of fullness and size. When you switched to a higher dose, this water would have vacated your body, leaving you looking smaller. I don't fully understand the mechanics behind it, but this can also cause a slight decrease in strength, which could also explain that part of your issue. .5mg of adex ED is a lot, so I'm curious if you've gone too far in the other direction and have crashed your estrogen levels unintentionally. Sadly, low E2 has many of the same symptoms as high - with a few exceptions being that you're not retaining that water and your joints may ache a bit. Low energy and even moodiness can happen if you drive your levels too low, so I would definitely think about getting your numbers checked in the near future. This also can stall any gains in the gym as we do need *some* estrogen in the process of hypertrophy of muscle tissue. Yes, stopping the injections can most certainly drive your estrogen levels down as your body makes estrogen from testosterone. Less testosterone = less estrogen.

4. I guess it's possible that it wasn't all 'pure muscle' gains, but I went from 195 bls, to 225 lbs., in about 8-9 weeks. Like I wrote, I was busting through my shirts to the point, it was embarassing to go out in my normal clothes cuz they just didn't fit anymore. It kinda looked stupid, but again, after about the 10th week, it all slowly faded away.

This is why I think it might be partially to do with your changing of adex dosing. Did you make the change to the ED doses around this time? I would most certainly back WAY down on the adex to .25mg EOD or if you notice the bloat coming back, .5mg EOD. It's one of the games we men on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) have to play as it's very difficult to predict what our bodies are going to do with the wonderful hormone known as testosterone. Luckily we can figure this out over time and find our "sweet spot", where we get all the benefits with almost none of the sides.

My .02c

 

[Megatron28]

Instead of conjecture based on anecdotal evidence, why don't you get a blood test run? Read the stickies in the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) section to find out how to get cheap labs run at Private MD - Buy Lab Tests Online. Then we all have some real numbers to look at.

And by the way, 400mg of test a week generally is not considered testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). That is generally considered to be running a cycle.

 

[Thoroughbred72]

I was probably at a 5% body fat level, a year ago, during the first three months, with a 30 lb muscle gain. I can't explain it, but I was drinking protein shakes and eating all the time. And Yes, during that time, I had a raging appetitie and my metabolism went sky high. I felt like I could go fight the entire war in Iraq if I wanted to. Back then, I would say that within the first two weeks of T, my appetite began to soar, and about 4 weeks into it, I was starving most of the time, and constantly eating.

Personally, I think 400 mg a week is too much for year round T. The human body was not made to have such high doses of T all the time; hematocrit would rise to a really level after a while at that dosage.

Well, I would think, that after 4-5 months off T, that my estradiol level would be pretty low. I've only taken the .5mg, ED, for the last 4 weeks since I started back. I will drop down to .5mg, EOD. My appetitie has not improved; as a matter of fact, most days now, I just don't get all that hungry at all.

 

[Megatron28]

Get some bloodwork done and see where you are at. Stop guessing!

 

[heavyiron]

Diet, hire a nutritionist.

 

[newtohrt]

T never worked for me, either. My symptoms are exactly like yours, only I never had the "good" phase up front like you had. The only thing I get out of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is a bit more energy. No muscle gains, no fat lose, no libido boost at all. I have spent thousands on blood tests over the last two years and spoken with multiple doctors as well to no effect. The usual reply I get is, "Well what you are doing SHOULD work - I don't have any idea why it's not..."

Sorry - I know that this is not helping you, but I am seeing a fair number of guys on the forums for whom testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) does not really "work" in the expected sense and I wish that somebody knew what was going on.

 

[Megatron28]

T never worked for me, either. My symptoms are exactly like yours, only I never had the "good" phase up front like you had. The only thing I get out of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is a bit more energy. No muscle gains, no fat lose, no libido boost at all. I have spent thousands on blood tests over the last two years and spoken with multiple doctors as well to no effect. The usual reply I get is, "Well what you are doing SHOULD work - I don't have any idea why it's not..."

Sorry - I know that this is not helping you, but I am seeing a fair number of guys on the forums for whom testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) does not really "work" in the expected sense and I wish that somebody knew what was going on.

He posted the same question on the anabolic side of the forums and provided a little more insight into his situation. It sounds like he was not managing his estradiol. Check it out if you are interested.

 

[halfwit]

I was probably at a 5% body fat level, a year ago, during the first three months, with a 30 lb muscle gain. I can't explain it, but I was drinking protein shakes and eating all the time. And Yes, during that time, I had a raging appetitie and my metabolism went sky high. I felt like I could go fight the entire war in Iraq if I wanted to. Back then, I would say that within the first two weeks of T, my appetite began to soar, and about 4 weeks into it, I was starving most of the time, and constantly eating.

Personally, I think 400 mg a week is too much for year round T. The human body was not made to have such high doses of T all the time; hematocrit would rise to a really level after a while at that dosage.

Well, I would think, that after 4-5 months off T, that my estradiol level would be pretty low. I've only taken the .5mg, ED, for the last 4 weeks since I started back. I will drop down to .5mg, EOD. My appetitie has not improved; as a matter of fact, most days now, I just don't get all that hungry at all.

It only takes a week to crash your estradiol with adex (give or take), so four weeks has been ample time if this is indeed what's going on. Megatron said it perfectly: Get a blood test so we can eliminate the guessing. I'm a Red Cross All-Star as I donate both platelets and whole blood every time it's up. While I do think 400mg/wk is a lot, ALL of us on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) need to be donating as our hematocrit and RBC/Platelet counts go nuts regardless of dose.

I hope you feel better soon.

 

[Thoroughbred72]

Thanks sir. I checked on the pricing of another blood test check, to see where things were at. So, it's either diet, diet, or diet???? Obviously, it's not estradiol. Someone else told me that it could be my HPTA axis is trying to readjust, causing my testosterone to cortisol level to get out of whack?????

 

[Thoroughbred72]

Yes, I posted this in the anabolic forum also, with the hope that it could bring light from 'both sides.' So far, we have ruled out the possiblity that estradiol could be the problem. It might have explained why I lost mass/size/strength, etc. the first go around, but it's doesn't explain why it's not working so far, right now. I was off T for long enough that estradiol would have lowered back to normal levels.

So far, we are coming up with info., that diet is key. I will say, that even though I have not been experiencing major muscle 'pumps,' like I did last year, during my workouts, and I have not been experiencing the raging appetite, and STRONG increase in muscle tone, I'm going to say that maybe because I was working out in the early AM, on an empty stomach, and drinking LOTS OF protein shakes, and just working out HARD, may be some of the difference that I am not doing all that much now.-----------To be honest, I'm not sure at this point------------but the main issues that I probably need to work on this time around, iS...........DIET, get blood tests, and.............keep guessing.

I've even considered buying some of the these 'pro hormones,' that are all over the internet. Reports are, that there are no true 'Pro hormones' left anymore, that these products are pure, oral steroids, that are stilll legal. However, the reports are that these products are VERY toxic to the body and liver, and should only be taken for 4 weeks, TOPS, 6 weeks, and then some type of 'cycle' needs to be done afterwards.

 

[Megatron28]

Thanks sir. I checked on the pricing of another blood test check, to see where things were at. So, it's either diet, diet, or diet???? Obviously, it's not estradiol. Someone else told me that it could be my HPTA axis is trying to readjust, causing my testosterone to cortisol level to get out of whack?????

Spend the lousy $50 for a lab test using Private MD - Buy Lab Tests Online. Do a search for what panel to get, etc on this forum.