Any feedback on finishing a cycle with short ester?

[max33]

I hadn't been on for over 2 years until my last cycle. Previously I ran test E only - awesome and simple, test E/deca - shut me down for so long it wasn't fun at all. I also ran test prop/tren A and felt like god while on. When random big guys were passing me by and saw my bar bending while I was squating they would give me a spot without me asking. However, the sides weren't worth the long-term gains, i.e. 24 hour sweats, barely controllable aggression, vivid dreams, dark yellow urine=not a good sign).

So I've become a believer in simple test only cycles. Besides, I work with various clients a lot and can't afford to look intimidating

So recently I ran a good-ol' 13weeker 500mg test only, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 500iu per week(5w-13w, didn't have enough) and it was great. 20lbs gain like it was my first cycle. So far I have kept at least half of it. For post cycle therapy (pct) I used 20mg Nolva for 40 days. That's where I might have made a mistake?.. I didn't seem to recover quick enough considering the simplicity of the cycle. It's been almost 2 months since the end of the post cycle therapy (pct) but I still don't have any sex drive, I am very weak in the gym, and don't recover after a workout as quickly. I work out every other day when I'm off.

I was playing with numbers at roidcalc.com and was thinking if it's worth to finish a long ester cycle with a few weeks of a short ester to shorten the number of weeks between the cycle and post cycle therapy (pct) and perhaps make the process of recovery faster?

Something like this:
12 weeks ~600mg Test E
13-17 week ~400mg Test Prop

What do you guys think, should I give a try to long-short esters cycle or change my post cycle therapy (pct) perhaps?

P.S. I've run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) before and I felt like it boosted my estrogen levels. My nipples were extra sore and bacne broke out from test e only which never happened on a similar cycle with no HCG. So I'm thinking to drop it next cycle and see how it works out without it.
Stats: late 20's, 200lbs, 12%bf.

 

[Kolossus]

i never tried prop, but I wouldn't switch esters that late in the game. i would consider adding another compound which may be more agreeable for you. Perhaps 6 weeks of anavar or winstrol. I f-ing love winstrol, I occasionally get the stereotypical joint pain in the elbows, but glucosmine and adjusting dosage fixes that fine.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

i never tried prop, but I wouldn't switch esters that late in the game. i would consider adding another compound which may be more agreeable for you. Perhaps 6 weeks of anavar or winstrol. I f-ing love winstrol, I occasionally get the stereotypical joint pain in the elbows, but glucosmine and adjusting dosage fixes that fine.

I mean you really are a genius, the guy comes here asking how he might have done a better post cycle therapy (pct) and kept more of his gains, and you tell him he needs to add another compound, and to top it off winny?

something that "agrees with him more" right?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

and yes switching to prop is a good idea OP

take the time to read this thread

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/618782-more-more-failed-pcts.html

 

[max33]

and yes switching to prop is a good idea OP

take the time to read this thread

steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/618782-more-more-failed-pcts.html

Yep, read all 5 pages not long ago. But I didn't find any references to finishing a cycle with a short ester though, but I might not pay close attention.

Next cycle I'm planning to run Clomid and Nolva together. Maybe that will boost my natural test faster.

In regards to orals, Kolossus, I had been abusing alcohol before I started cycling and my filter doesn't like me anymore. So now I stir clear of any orals. Besides I don't think they are worth the hype, imho.

 

[jimbo79]

I mean you really are a genius, the guy comes here asking how he might have done a better post cycle therapy (pct) and kept more of his gains, and you tell him he needs to add another compound, and to top it off winny?

something that "agrees with him more" right?

OAK.....you are fucking awesome!! hahaha thats funny shit!!

 

[crazyfmike]

Test only cycles are great. IMO test only cycles are the "grown ups" cycle. Once a guy fucks around with stacking and gets his meat packed on get his knowledge ON he cannot deny the power of the test only cycle.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I personally always think someone should switch to a short ester at the end of the cycle, it will make timing post cycle therapy (pct) much easier.

come off your LE test for a week, then run a medium dose of prop, 100 eod, for like 2-3 weeks or so while the LE test is clearing. then come off prop for 10-12 days and blast your Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as cashout recs. if your gonna try wihtout Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) just run it when you were gonna do the HCG

 

[Kolossus]

I mean you really are a genius, the guy comes here asking how he might have done a better post cycle therapy (pct) and kept more of his gains, and you tell him he needs to add another compound, and to top it off winny?

something that "agrees with him more" right?

Keeping gains like how you lost 8 lb's after a test cycle?? haha

The op asked about adding a short ester to the end of a cycle. i suggested perhaps adding a compound instead of using prop. there is no need to load a 4 week prop run after a 12 week enanthate cycle... it just doesn't make sense. Stick to one ester.

If you can explain how that is a bad idea, please do so. And also... post your cycle history and a pic of you at 250 lb's. haha

 

[methos]

The prop at the end is a good idea. Do you run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) while on cycle? Your estrogen was probably through the ceiling and might still be. Do you have bloodwork?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Keeping gains like how you lost 8 lb's after a test cycle?? haha

The op asked about adding a short ester to the end of a cycle. i suggested perhaps adding a compound instead of using prop. there is no need to load a 4 week prop run after a 12 week enanthate cycle... it just doesn't make sense. Stick to one ester.

If you can explain how that is a bad idea, please do so. And also... post your cycle history and a pic of you at 250 lb's. haha

ive already posted pics, and like i said i could care less what you look like, usually the biggest guy in the gym, is the dumbest guy taking 3 grams a week and not coming off in 5 years, kind of like you.

as far as your other question, if your still newb enough to think you will have to let the short ester "load" for it to kick in, once he has already built a base line on LE test, then that tells me i dont even need to answer your question lol

on top of that your making it sound like an oral wouldnt have to "load" before it became effective, then your even more of an idiot lol

listen man, i will stop poking fun at you, but just remember it was your fault, your the one that came over here throwing shots out at me.

its obvious your "knowledge" in pharmacology is less than optimal..................................

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

and why would prop be a bad idea? its actually a great idea................... if you cant see why then i dont have time to teach you what you need to learn.

the oral, Winstrol (winny), is a bad idea cause its pretty much useless, its a weak steroid, terrible for cholesterol and only good for those going into a BB competition.................anavar would be much better suited for him, but i would still swithc to prop, even if on var.

K, please tell me you understand that at the end of the cycle it will take longer for the oral to kick in than the test?

if you dont get that, then we need to teach you what your doing when you inject, creating a depot.

as far as your pic comment, i have no shame, here are some pics from last year, before starting my cutting diet.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/606820-5-weeks-vegas-cycle-3j-diet-6.html

 

[Kolossus]

and why would prop be a bad idea? its actually a great idea................... if you cant see why then i dont have time to teach you what you need to learn.

the oral, Winstrol (winny), is a bad idea cause its pretty much useless, its a weak steroid, terrible for cholesterol and only good for those going into a BB competition.................anavar would be much better suited for him, but i would still swithc to prop, even if on var.

K, please tell me you understand that at the end of the cycle it will take longer for the oral to kick in than the test?

if you dont get that, then we need to teach you what your doing when you inject, creating a depot.

as far as your pic comment, i have no shame, here are some pics from last year, before starting my cutting diet.

steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/606820-5-weeks-vegas-cycle-3j-diet-6.html

Winny is very good. I mean to say, what one person says isn't always true for another. Have you experience with winstrol? 4 weeks @ 100mg/day gets my arms and legs hard as rock and increase lifts. I love winstrol.

Oral winstrol takes 3-4 days to take effect for me. I never run prop, but I know the test prop won't peak for 6 weeks... so by the time you come off a 4 week cycle, you haven't even peaked. If you run enanthate, you will have full serum levels... why not continue?

 

[carverelli]

If its best to wait until le test levels drop to start hcg and or post cycle therapy (pct) why wait. Like op suggested substitute a SE test like prop the last 3-4 weeks while the le clears that way u save a week-10 days of funk . U can recover faster . Win-win, I'm relative newb and I get it.

 

[Kolossus]

ive already posted pics, and like i said i could care less what you look like, usually the biggest guy in the gym, is the dumbest guy taking 3 grams a week and not coming off in 5 years, kind of like you.

as far as your other question, if your still newb enough to think you will have to let the short ester "load" for it to kick in, once he has already built a base line on LE test, then that tells me i dont even need to answer your question lol

on top of that your making it sound like an oral wouldnt have to "load" before it became effective, then your even more of an idiot lol

listen man, i will stop poking fun at you, but just remember it was your fault, your the one that came over here throwing shots out at me.

its obvious your "knowledge" in pharmacology is less than optimal..................................

Actually I know quite a lot about pharmacology in general and specifically AAS. I wasn't poking a shot at you, I was saying if you only gained 2 lb's on a test cycle, something is wrong... even if you cutting bf. my .02.

I run gear according to my body response... I am not the dumbest guy at the gym, or the smartest, or the biggest, or the strongest... but I also don't pretend to be the smartest guy on this forum.

 

[max33]

K, I think what the Oak is trying to say (and I agree) is that test is test and the ester is just an indicator of how long the test stays in the system. So If I already have ~500mg of test in my system by the week 12, starting test prop will only add extra amount to that ~500mg. Thus, no "loading" is going on at this point.

I never run prop, but I know the test prop won't peak for 6 weeks... so by the time you come off a 4 week cycle, you haven't even peaked. If you run enanthate, you will have full serum levels... why not continue?

 

[Kolossus]

K, I think what the Oak is trying to say (and I agree) is that test is test and the ester is just an indicator of how long the test stays in the system. So If I already have ~500mg of test in my system by the week 12, starting test prop will only add extra amount to that ~500mg. Thus, no "loading" is going on at this point.

ok, i disagree.

 

[max33]

The prop at the end is a good idea. Do you run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) while on cycle? Your estrogen was probably through the ceiling and might still be. Do you have bloodwork?

I ran aromasin at 12.5mg for the last 2 weeks into the cycle. It helped a lot with the sore nipples but my bacne broke out much more My best guess to this is the rapid fluctuation of the hormones. But I'm not too sure.
Unfortunately I don't have a change to get a blood work anytime soon.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

K, I think what the Oak is trying to say (and I agree) is that test is test and the ester is just an indicator of how long the test stays in the system. So If I already have ~500mg of test in my system by the week 12, starting test prop will only add extra amount to that ~500mg. Thus, no "loading" is going on at this point.

this is correct, if k doesnt believe it then he is just wrong, period.

understand when we shoot long ester test, we create a depot where we injected. the ester determines how quickly it will be dispersed from the depot. so after 7 days of a 200mg shot, 100mg will still be sitting in the depot, 7 days later 50 will be there, 7 days later 25...........wel you see where im going.

so you have already build stable serum levels, peaking out basically with small dips and rises. now once you stop injecting up to like 8 of these depots still remain, all putting different amounts of test in the blood at the same time.

so adding prop at this time, which is released faster, will add on top of the already remaining depots, as those are falling, prop will kepp the baseline high.

as the depots of the long ester wear out, prop will be building its own set of depots, but serum T will not change all that much.

once the long depots clear, then you will have 6 or so prop depots going, since these clear much much faster, the timing for optimally starting the hpta (around 350ng/dl) will com much sooner, but not just that we have to remember we are guessing with post cycle therapy (pct) times, and its a lot easier to guess with prop.

why you ask? cause if i time it wrong i will only be off by days, if i time a long ester wrong (post cycle therapy (pct) timing) i could easily be off weeks, increasing the chances of a failed post cycle therapy (pct)

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I ran aromasin at 12.5mg for the last 2 weeks into the cycle. It helped a lot with the sore nipples but my bacne broke out much more My best guess to this is the rapid fluctuation of the hormones. But I'm not too sure.
Unfortunately I don't have a change to get a blood work anytime soon.

HCG directly stimulates aroma in the leydig cells, your balls are basically a big fat dense lipid cell.

AI's strength depend on which one can penetrate deep into these dense lipid cells (fat cells in the body).

so you may need letro when running Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), cause it can pnetrate the deepest. what may be happening is aroma is going on in a plcae that aromasin cant reach.