Been asking alot of questions but never posted my latest labs & wanted to share

[swing22hard]

I am 46 years old 180 lbs Male. These labs are from 5/31/13 from my endocronologist at the time, we were checking some thyroid things at the same time. When I met my new doc & handed her this report I asked what would you recommend after reviewing this & she told me she would put me on test cyp @ .50 to start & check again in a month or so. I am curious what you guys think of it? She said I am in the low range & would definately step it up a little due to my physical & mental fatigue. My first doc put me on test trochies that went un monitored & my test went to 1900, then she told me to get off of it to get it back down, so these numbers are a reflection of being off any test supplement for a 1 month period. My endocronologist was worthless & said everything was in my head & I should be feeling awesome looking at the numbers, I fired her too. So my new doc is the one that put me on the .05 test cyp once a week. I felt great the first 5 days after the first shot & the last 2 days feeling like crap & can't wait for my next shot.

So I am curious what you all think of these numbers, I do not have an estrogen number because all but the last doc I have seen has agreed on the next blood draw to check it. I am thinking about going to the local lab & doing the draw myself to see where it is.

Thanks for any input you may have, I appreciate it. I have been on a physical/mental roller coaster for 7 months trying to figure out what is wrong & like everyone else has said their docs want to put them on some anti depressant & I bought into when things were at their lowest & all they did was make me WORSE! I wish there was some happy pill I could take & everything just be peachy but they all have negative effects on me & magnify the issues.

FSH 3.3 mlU/ML 1.6-8.0
FT3 3.0 pg/mL 2.00-4.90
FT4 1.3 Ng/dL 0.75-1.54
LH 2.8 mlU/mL 1.5-9.3
Prolactin 8.9 ng/mL 2.0-18.0
Testosterone, total, LC/MS/MS 369 ng/dL 250-1100
Free Testosterone 50.7 pg/mL 35.0-155.0
TSH 0.54 MlU/mL 0.50-6.00

 

[Megatron28]

It makes sense that you are shut down. You came off the troches cold turkey without running a PCT, right?

You need to give injections time to work. They could take 3-6 weeks before you start feeling better. The efect you felt after your first injection is most likely psychological. Still counts though. Feeling better is feeling better.

P.S. saying you take .05 doesn't tell us anything. Best way to describe it is let us know how many milligrams you are taking per week and with what dosing schedule.

 

[totalburnout]

It makes sense that you are shut down. You came off the troches cold turkey without running a PCT, right?

You need to give injections time to work. They could take 3-6 weeks before you start feeling better. The efect you felt after your first injection is most likely psychological. Still counts though. Feeling better is feeling better.

P.S. saying you take .05 doesn't tell us anything. Best way to describe it is let us know how many milligrams you are taking per week and with what dosing schedule.

He's really not 'shut down'. LH and FSH are still within range values and they're not even THAT low in the range. Free T looks good for the T he has. Total T isn't that low for a 38 year old. Estrogen would be nice to know and is likely the center of this issue. For his age, labs look pretty spot on.

I'd see where estrogen and SHBG are at. I'd also check things like t3/cortisol/diet/sleep.

What sort of physical shape are you in? Bodyfat percentage roughly, gym routine, etc.

Cliff notes - if you were to go by the labs alone, you really look like you wouldn't be a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidate at a legitimate doctor. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) clinics would treat you. Urologists (if you mentioned issues with sexual function) or a GP (if you screamed about conditions enough) might treat you but that would be based on SYMPTOMS and not labs. You look like you might be a candidate for a restart based on the LH and FSH numbers you have, even after using exogenous test. Were you also using hCG?

 

[1693]

swing, I'll do some guessing and you can agree or disagree...earlier in your post you said you were taking .50 cyp once per week........I'll guess that to be .50mL(cc) or 50 units in an insulin pin and your test mix is 200mg/mL so....................200 x .5 = 100mg is your dose.

I'm guessing one of these choices might work better for you:

100mg (.5mL) every 5 days.

or 50mg (.25mL) every 3.5 days.

I think pinning every seven days is too long for you, it does work for some and maybe even you down the road after you have built up your test supply in your system.

 

[totalburnout]

swing, I'll do some guessing and you can agree or disagree...earlier in your post you said you were taking .50 cyp once per week........I'll guess that to be .50mL(cc) or 50 units in an insulin pin and your test mix is 200mg/mL so....................200 x .5 = 100mg is your dose.

I'm guessing one of these choices might work better for you:

100mg (.5mL) every 5 days.

or 50mg (.25mL) every 3.5 days.

I think pinning every seven days is too long for you, it does work for some and maybe even you down the road after you have built up your test supply in your system.

Its a good suggestion if you're going to stay on test, but you should still find out your E2 and SBHG.

 

[Megatron28]

He's really not 'shut down'. LH and FSH are still within range values and they're not even THAT low in the range. Free T looks good for the T he has. Total T isn't that low for a 38 year old. Estrogen would be nice to know and is likely the center of this issue. For his age, labs look pretty spot on.

I'd see where estrogen and SHBG are at. I'd also check things like t3/cortisol/diet/sleep.

What sort of physical shape are you in? Bodyfat percentage roughly, gym routine, etc.

Cliff notes - if you were to go by the labs alone, you really look like you wouldn't be a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidate at a legitimate doctor. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) clinics would treat you. Urologists (if you mentioned issues with sexual function) or a GP (if you screamed about conditions enough) might treat you but that would be based on SYMPTOMS and not labs. You look like you might be a candidate for a restart based on the LH and FSH numbers you have, even after using exogenous test. Were you also using hCG?

I think TT of 369 is pretty low. And his FSH and LH are both on the low side of the normal range. Would you be happy with TT of 369? I know I would not.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

He's really not 'shut down'. LH and FSH are still within range values and they're not even THAT low in the range. Free T looks good for the T he has. Total T isn't that low for a 38 year old. Estrogen would be nice to know and is likely the center of this issue. For his age, labs look pretty spot on.

I'd see where estrogen and SHBG are at. I'd also check things like t3/cortisol/diet/sleep.

What sort of physical shape are you in? Bodyfat percentage roughly, gym routine, etc.

Cliff notes - if you were to go by the labs alone, you really look like you wouldn't be a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidate at a legitimate doctor. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) clinics would treat you. Urologists (if you mentioned issues with sexual function) or a GP (if you screamed about conditions enough) might treat you but that would be based on SYMPTOMS and not labs. You look like you might be a candidate for a restart based on the LH and FSH numbers you have, even after using exogenous test. Were you also using hCG?

How can you know if those levels are ok with him without a history and list of symptoms......

 

[swing22hard]

It makes sense that you are shut down. You came off the troches cold turkey without running a PCT, right?

You need to give injections time to work. They could take 3-6 weeks before you start feeling better. The efect you felt after your first injection is most likely psychological. Still counts though. Feeling better is feeling better.

P.S. saying you take .05 doesn't tell us anything. Best way to describe it is let us know how many milligrams you are taking per week and with what dosing schedule.

I believe it is 100mg per week, today is my pin day =*) yippee!

 

[swing22hard]

He's really not 'shut down'. LH and FSH are still within range values and they're not even THAT low in the range. Free T looks good for the T he has. Total T isn't that low for a 38 year old. Estrogen would be nice to know and is likely the center of this issue. For his age, labs look pretty spot on.

I'd see where estrogen and SHBG are at. I'd also check things like t3/cortisol/diet/sleep.

What sort of physical shape are you in? Bodyfat percentage roughly, gym routine, etc.

Cliff notes - if you were to go by the labs alone, you really look like you wouldn't be a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidate at a legitimate doctor. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) clinics would treat you. Urologists (if you mentioned issues with sexual function) or a GP (if you screamed about conditions enough) might treat you but that would be based on SYMPTOMS and not labs. You look like you might be a candidate for a restart based on the LH and FSH numbers you have, even after using exogenous test. Were you also using hCG?

Totalburn - I am 46, in pretty good shape but not sure on % of body fat. I used to play racquetball 3 days a week, hit the gym 3 days a week & do some weights & 1 hour of cardio, I go on 10 mile bike rides 3-4 days a week. I eat pretty healthy, no fast food ever. 6 months ago my eyes started tweaking and my energy level hit a wall, during Christmas dinner I felt like I could hardly lift my fork to my face to eat & axiety was at an all time high (which I have never had in my life) & borderline depressed. So I went to my doctor to find out what was wrong & after labs they determined at that time my Total Test was 175 & my thyroid levels were off & I was considered borderline hyperthyroid. So they put me on Tapazole for the thyroid & trochies for the testosterone. Now my thyroid is in line & we are still working on the testosterone, after quitting the trochies & being at a total testosterone of 1900, after a month of being off them total T dropped to the 369 & not sure if it would have kept dropping the longer I stayed off any Test supplement. That's when I found a hormone specialist & started the Test Cyp. I have never had any energy level issues in all my 46 years & always active mountain biking or playing racquetball, always doing something.

Have never tried Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or anything else other than the trochies.

What do you mean candidate for a restart? how does a restart work?

 

[swing22hard]

How can you know if those levels are ok with him without a history and list of symptoms......

Symptoms:
total energy fatigue
anxiety
depression
eyes & brain focus off (brain fog)
no drive.

 

[swing22hard]

Its a good suggestion if you're going to stay on test, but you should still find out your E2 and SBHG.

I plan on getting my E2 checked, thats the only part of the puzzle that has been missing in the last 6 months.

What is SBHG? is it called something else on a blood test? or would it be listed as SBHG on a blood report?

 

[totalburnout]

I think TT of 369 is pretty low. And his FSH and LH are both on the low side of the normal range. Would you be happy with TT of 369? I know I would not.

At 46 years old and comparing the prospect of managing a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol for the rest of my life vs staying natural? Unless I had explored all other options, I wouldn't head in the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) direction. *I'll edit this since I read his update that he had a thyroid issue. So there you have it. Low T is a symptom of the underlying problem, not the actual problem.

Did you take that into account or are we just prescribing testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for everyone regardless of what their labs look like, their age, quality of life, etc?

Those labs are FANTASTIC for someone who stopped exogenous test use that had him at 1900.

I believe you don't take hCG - correct Megatron? Look at your own LH and FSH values after using test and not using hCG, those values are usually so low that they're not actually calculated on the bloodwork. That's when you're shut down - when those values aren't calculated - otherwise he's still producing. Make sense?

 

[totalburnout]

How can you know if those levels are ok with him without a history and list of symptoms......

Uhhh... I understand that you're a part of a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) clinic and your goal is to always improve quality of life for your clients but we're painting with a pretty broad brush here.

None of the symptoms he posted seem so obvious and so debilitating that in the face of normal labs we should say, "yes, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is a great option for you" at this point without knowing more.

So we're in agreement on one thing, we need to know more. What you apparently took issue with was me calling a normal looking lab, normal. I also stated explicitly that based off of labs ALONE, he wouldn't be a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidate.

"Cliff notes - if you were to go by the labs alone, you really look like you wouldn't be a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidate at a legitimate doctor. "

So what exactly are you taking issue with that I said?

 

[totalburnout]

So I went to my doctor to find out what was wrong & after labs they determined at that time my Total test was 175 & my thyroid levels were off & I was considered borderline hyperthyroid.

What do you mean candidate for a restart? how does a restart work?

BINGO - a thyroid issue and not a Test production issue. See, if you jump to the conclusion like most people here, their first step is GET ON TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS.

Look up some restart protocols. They're on this forum and many other forums. Look up a guy called "Cashout" in google for his restart protocol.

It's essentially hCG for two weeks followed by clomid, nolvadex, and aromasin. This allows you to 'restart' your system and boost your own natural testosterone levels. That is much more preferable than going the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) route.

For what it's worth, if your doctor took you off test without any PCT (post cycle therapy) and your TT, LH and FSH numbers hold where they are currently - consider yourself very lucky. Most guys would be completely shut down and would have much lower numbers. That's not to say if you continue to do bloodwork that you may find that your system is actually declining from the point shown in the bloodwork here - and that may be why you feel worse than your labs actually show.

 

[totalburnout]

I plan on getting my E2 checked, thats the only part of the puzzle that has been missing in the last 6 months.

What is SBHG? is it called something else on a blood test? or would it be listed as SBHG on a blood report?

SHBG

sex hormone-binding globulin. It's essentially how much of your testosterone is bound up. Since we have your Free T value, its not as important to have the SHBG value - because we can deduct that SHBG is not that high.

If I had to guess you're either on the downside of your system shutting down from ending exogenous testosterone use cold turkey, or you have an estrogen issue and/or both.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Uhhh... I understand that you're a part of a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) clinic and your goal is to always improve quality of life for your clients but we're painting with a pretty broad brush here.

None of the symptoms he posted seem so obvious and so debilitating that in the face of normal labs we should say, "yes, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is a great option for you" at this point without knowing more.

So we're in agreement on one thing, we need to know more. What you apparently took issue with was me calling a normal looking lab, normal. I also stated explicitly that based off of labs ALONE, he wouldn't be a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidate.

"Cliff notes - if you were to go by the labs alone, you really look like you wouldn't be a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidate at a legitimate doctor. "

So what exactly are you taking issue with that I said?

Exactly, so my question is, who told you a 369 number is perfectly normal for a 38 year old male?

I mean I read a post of yours the other day and you didn't even know what anastrozole was, and now all the sudden your an expert????

You realize I was on the board for 3 years posting before I ever represented any company, so your assumption that I would share a biased opinion could not be further from the truth.

369 is a shitty number no matter which way you slice it, even if your 50.

 

[swing22hard]

SHBG

sex hormone-binding globulin. It's essentially how much of your testosterone is bound up. Since we have your Free T value, its not as important to have the SHBG value - because we can deduct that SHBG is not that high.

If I had to guess you're either on the downside of your system shutting down from ending exogenous testosterone use cold turkey, or you have an estrogen issue and/or both.

I understand what you are saying, I would rather not do testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) personally. Last December my total T was 175, it was obviously very low & needed help. Went cold turkey for 1 month & it dropped down to 369 from 1900 & I think I felt like crap from the estrogen, I could never get a test done by any doctor to confirm that. My thyroid was checked in this last blood work & came back in range after being off thyroid meds for 1 month & my endocronologist said it all looks good & I said how can that be? I feel like crap still. Which is why I am trying the test cyp, which has seemed to help my energy levels. I will look into that restart you mentioned. I appreciate all your input here.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

BINGO - a thyroid issue and not a Test production issue. See, if you jump to the conclusion like most people here, their first step is GET ON TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS.

Look up some restart protocols. They're on this forum and many other forums. Look up a guy called "Cashout" in google for his restart protocol.

It's essentially hCG for two weeks followed by clomid, nolvadex, and aromasin. This allows you to 'restart' your system and boost your own natural testosterone levels. That is much more preferable than going the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) route.

For what it's worth, if your doctor took you off test without any PCT (post cycle therapy) and your TT, LH and FSH numbers hold where they are currently - consider yourself very lucky. Most guys would be completely shut down and would have much lower numbers. That's not to say if you continue to do bloodwork that you may find that your system is actually declining from the point shown in the bloodwork here - and that may be why you feel worse than your labs actually show.

And now your an expert on restart protocols I guess, 2 weeks of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for his situation? It would be useless to follow that recommendation with his history of 175 then 369 and another round of T.

It is very clear to me that you have little or no real world experience on the issues we are discussing in this thread and others, it is just sad that the newbies will think you know what your talking about because of your baseless claims when posting. Have fun pretending.........

 

[totalburnout]

Exactly, so my question is, who told you a 369 number is perfectly normal for a 38 year old male?

I mean I read a post of yours the other day and you didn't even know what anastrozole was, and now all the sudden your an expert????

You realize I was on the board for 3 years posting before I ever represented any company, so your assumption that I would share a biased opinion could not be further from the truth.

369 is a shitty number no matter which way you slice it, even if your 50.

I don't profess myself to be an expert. I'll absolutely admit to 4-5months ago not knowing what anastrozole was - and I'm sure you were at that point at one point. What that doesn't mean is that I'm a stagnant individual, I can never gain experience and never learn. I've been tickering with things for the last 5months on injections. I went through the test gel debacle a year ago. I've been heavily interested and researching for the past year and a half.

What I've found is that specifically on this board, everyone jumps to T being the answer. If we went over to Meso RX and you asked a doctor, they would laugh at what is being prescribed here 99% of the time. Do I agree that T will improve the quality of nearly everyone's life? Absolutely. I also understand at this point to be careful what you ask for and don't jump straight to dynamite.

We've already uncovered he has a thyroid issue. We also have blood work showing that his HPTA IS NOT shut down based on his LH and FSH. We have evidence that Free T is in a good range. We're not in disagreement that 369 is not the most ideal number.

That's where our agreement ends. At 46, 369 isn't such an awful number - that's natural. Based on the symptoms, we can go from there. I'm not convinced that his eyes bugging out is a T issue - that sounds like sleep, stress, hypertension. Fatigue, depression, no drive could all be attributed to low T or it could be attributed to a thyroid issue, diet issue, or sleep issue (deprivation in general or maybe something more rooted in apnea). Given the knowledge that he has a thyroid issue and not an issue with his gonads, at least TRYING a restart before moving strictly to exogenous T usage would be the only way I personally would want to go. I would also want to make sure that the problem of the thyroid is completely treated and under control. If those two things don't work and symptoms persist, sure lets talk about T usage. ...at this point, suggestion T usage is putting the cart before the horse.

Yes - I understand that you're much more experienced and well versed in hormones than myself. That makes it a bit baffling to me of why you would take issue with wanting to try a restart first, keep a guy natural, and also zero in on the underlying issue.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I don't profess myself to be an expert. I'll absolutely admit to 4-5months ago not knowing what anastrozole was - and I'm sure you were at that point at one point. What that doesn't mean is that I'm a stagnant individual, I can never gain experience and never learn. I've been tickering with things for the last 5months on injections. I went through the test gel debacle a year ago. I've been heavily interested and researching for the past year and a half.

What I've found is that specifically on this board, everyone jumps to T being the answer. If we went over to Meso RX and you asked a doctor, they would laugh at what is being prescribed here 99% of the time. Do I agree that T will improve the quality of nearly everyone's life? Absolutely. I also understand at this point to be careful what you ask for and don't jump straight to dynamite.

We've already uncovered he has a thyroid issue. We also have blood work showing that his HPTA IS NOT shut down based on his LH and FSH. We have evidence that Free T is in a good range. We're not in disagreement that 369 is not the most ideal number.

That's where our agreement ends. At 46, 369 isn't such an awful number - that's natural. Based on the symptoms, we can go from there. I'm not convinced that his eyes bugging out is a T issue - that sounds like sleep, stress, hypertension. Fatigue, depression, no drive could all be attributed to low T or it could be attributed to a thyroid issue, diet issue, or sleep issue (deprivation in general or maybe something more rooted in apnea). Given the knowledge that he has a thyroid issue and not an issue with his gonads, at least TRYING a restart before moving strictly to exogenous T usage would be the only way I personally would want to go. I would also want to make sure that the problem of the thyroid is completely treated and under control. If those two things don't work and symptoms persist, sure lets talk about T usage. ...at this point, suggestion T usage is putting the cart before the horse.

Yes - I understand that you're much more experienced and well versed in hormones than myself. That makes it a bit baffling to me of why you would take issue with wanting to try a restart first, keep a guy natural, and also zero in on the underlying issue.

Listen its not a bad thing that we disagree, I just don't think someone with little or no experience on the subject should be telling people "369 is perfectly normal for a 38 year old male" and if you are gonna say that, you need to post your experience or peer reviewed literature to back that up.

I have seen 1,000's of blood test, and from my experience and understanding, 369 is a terrible number that usually impacts HDL, sleep patterns, android fat and adrenals. These types of numbers usually go along with adrenal insufficiency, which is very closely related to thyroid. SO you are looking down the right path, but your end advice is not very good because you have no experience, and have not seen where that road takes most men.

You do realize there are 3 types of hypogonadism right? and a gazillion ways to get them.