For halfwit..I told megatron of my problem..he told me to ask you. i'm on pain meds for 6 years now. my test has been low for 3 years now,blood work 6 weeks ago & it's 211.. took natural test boosters. got my test to 436. still didn't feel good on them. miserable past year. pain meds for lower back isues.2 hurinated discs. 1 is pushing on spinal cord. major pressure.. can't get off meds till back is fixed.4 x day oxy's 15mg. & fentanyl patch 25mg every 72 hrs. megatron said about doing a ai monotherapy. instead of TRT. also thinking of doing a cycle to get some muscle back that i lost for having low test for so long,any help what to do would be great. thank you.. I went to see urologist friday june 26.. He gave me a shot of cyp.200mg. sunday my libido went up. he also gave a script for blood work , more tests. have to go tomorrow for it & see what everything is at. i was reading a bit more & I see I'm Third.. Cause of pain meds. I started taking natural test too. No. 17 it's called.. 1 1/2 weeks .. Need Your Help On My Matter.. thanx..
Been On Pain Meds For Years. I Have Low Test. Need Help.
- Thread starter joem67
- Start date
halfwit
I like turtles.
Thanks for reposting this. I just wanted to make sure you'd get views and responses more fitting to your thread than the other. 
So, first and foremost; what does your orthopedic surgeon plan to do for your back? The first goal would be to get you off that poison they call medicine. I TOTALLY understand the need for them as I was on opiates for over two years myself, but they are very destructive to your body, and are likely the reason for your low testosterone.
I've met two doctors in the last six years that are aware of the connection with primary hypogonadal hypogonadism as they have the ability to destroy the leydig cells in your testes. What I do find puzzling is that a test booster did anything for you - was this perhaps a SERM like clomid?
I would NOT cycle until you are actually able to do so without potentially harming your body further, as you will feel a greater drive to push in the gym, which could degrade your discs further.
It sounds like your urologist has already started you on TRT, so if you truly wanted to determine whether or not you're primary (testicular issue) or secondary (often pituitary problem), you would have to come off the shots for a month to 6 weeks and get a test done for your pituitary hormones. I did this one time to verify as I had a doctor do the same thing before any real testing was done.
It's not pleasant, but I had to confirm my suspicions. If you just want to be "fixed" however, it's not necessary. Just continue with the shots, and push to be taught how to do them, so you can do them yourself at home. Back office visits with a copay (or a flat-out charge) is stupid, and unnecessary.
I would also make sure that you haven't started seeing issues with insulin resistance, as that's one of the first things long-term hypogonadism will lead to. I don't know how long you have had this going on, but I developed diabetes within a year and a half. A thyroid panel is the next on that list, as your metabolism will likely have started to slow down. Fixing the testosterone problem did help mine, but I am still borderline hypothroidic after being on TRT for six years.
I'm not sure what No.17 is doing in a doctor's office as it's a blend of herbal crap that will only drain your wallet. Even if by some miracle a company actually figured out how to stimulate test production with a pill other than a SERM - that shot of cypionate overrides ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING that you can put in your body as your negative feedback loop has now been engaged. Once that happens, your body tells your brain that it no longer needs androgens - and your pituitary gland ceases all production of leutinizing hormone - which is the hormone responsible for natural production in the testes.
If it is indeed a doctor pushing that junk, he should have his license revoked. That's just irresponsible medicine, and making a profit off of someone's misfortune.
I hope this wall of text is helpful, and please feel free to ask any questions you feel I missed, or you now discover. There are lots of us guys with hypogonadism here in this community, so you're certainly not alone.
My .02c
So, first and foremost; what does your orthopedic surgeon plan to do for your back? The first goal would be to get you off that poison they call medicine. I TOTALLY understand the need for them as I was on opiates for over two years myself, but they are very destructive to your body, and are likely the reason for your low testosterone.
I've met two doctors in the last six years that are aware of the connection with primary hypogonadal hypogonadism as they have the ability to destroy the leydig cells in your testes. What I do find puzzling is that a test booster did anything for you - was this perhaps a SERM like clomid?
I would NOT cycle until you are actually able to do so without potentially harming your body further, as you will feel a greater drive to push in the gym, which could degrade your discs further.
It sounds like your urologist has already started you on TRT, so if you truly wanted to determine whether or not you're primary (testicular issue) or secondary (often pituitary problem), you would have to come off the shots for a month to 6 weeks and get a test done for your pituitary hormones. I did this one time to verify as I had a doctor do the same thing before any real testing was done.
It's not pleasant, but I had to confirm my suspicions. If you just want to be "fixed" however, it's not necessary. Just continue with the shots, and push to be taught how to do them, so you can do them yourself at home. Back office visits with a copay (or a flat-out charge) is stupid, and unnecessary.
I would also make sure that you haven't started seeing issues with insulin resistance, as that's one of the first things long-term hypogonadism will lead to. I don't know how long you have had this going on, but I developed diabetes within a year and a half. A thyroid panel is the next on that list, as your metabolism will likely have started to slow down. Fixing the testosterone problem did help mine, but I am still borderline hypothroidic after being on TRT for six years.
I'm not sure what No.17 is doing in a doctor's office as it's a blend of herbal crap that will only drain your wallet. Even if by some miracle a company actually figured out how to stimulate test production with a pill other than a SERM - that shot of cypionate overrides ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING that you can put in your body as your negative feedback loop has now been engaged. Once that happens, your body tells your brain that it no longer needs androgens - and your pituitary gland ceases all production of leutinizing hormone - which is the hormone responsible for natural production in the testes.
If it is indeed a doctor pushing that junk, he should have his license revoked. That's just irresponsible medicine, and making a profit off of someone's misfortune.
I hope this wall of text is helpful, and please feel free to ask any questions you feel I missed, or you now discover. There are lots of us guys with hypogonadism here in this community, so you're certainly not alone.
My .02c
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no... I Took Natural T... My Test Was 173 Then & Went Up To 436 On Them. 4 a day. I have blood work on hand from 6 weeks ago.do you need any of it.. Low Test For 4 Years I would say.It's been the worst the past 2 years.I lost interest in everything.even sex.i also have ed. I only got 1 shot of test cyp. 4 weeks ago. i don't know what to do,if i should do trt for the time,till i get off meds.i spoke with todd at IMT & he said ai monotherapy might work. he said to do the 3 months & then do ai monotherapy to see if my body produces on it's own.my test so low,i need to do something to feel better also. so depressed.. thank you..& it is secondary or third my pain management said.. i told him my test is low & am thinking of going on trt. he said good.gotta do something till i get off meds. can't you tell with bloodwork.t3 or t4 so see if it's pituitary problem.
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halfwit
I like turtles.
Ok, let's clarify something. So you got a testosterone shot a month ago, and started taking this herbal stuff 1.5 weeks ago, and got a blood test? Or was the blood test before either, while on something else?
Also, please remove prices from your post. I don't know if IMT wants that out in the open as it is likely on a case-by-case pricing system, and the field they're in is pretty competitive.
Yes, bloodwork would be helpful - but keep in mind I'm not a doctor, so you do need to take my advice with a grain of salt of course. If you have it, please also list the ranges - as they'll vary from lab to lab.
I find it hard to disagree with Todd on anything TRT related, although I personally (he sees WAY more cases than I do) haven't seen AI monotherapy work too well, except for extremely obese folks. Do you have the bloods for your testosterone/LH/FSH by chance?
Also, please remove prices from your post. I don't know if IMT wants that out in the open as it is likely on a case-by-case pricing system, and the field they're in is pretty competitive.
Yes, bloodwork would be helpful - but keep in mind I'm not a doctor, so you do need to take my advice with a grain of salt of course. If you have it, please also list the ranges - as they'll vary from lab to lab.
I find it hard to disagree with Todd on anything TRT related, although I personally (he sees WAY more cases than I do) haven't seen AI monotherapy work too well, except for extremely obese folks. Do you have the bloods for your testosterone/LH/FSH by chance?
Megatron28
Moderator
IMT presumably took your full medical history so they should have a good handle on what would work for you. We are here to help, but their is no substitute for a complete history, examination and their vast experience. IMT definitely knows what they are doing when it comes to TRT.
If it helps, I have a very good friend who did AI Monotherapy with Arimidex and it worked very well for him. He did have a higher body fat % at the time though.
Do you have a game plan for getting off the pain killers yet?
One other thing Joe. If you could write in paragraphs it would make it a lot easier to read your posts. That would draw more guys in to reading your posts and wanting to respond. Try to make it easy for the reader. It will pay you back dividends.
If it helps, I have a very good friend who did AI Monotherapy with Arimidex and it worked very well for him. He did have a higher body fat % at the time though.
Do you have a game plan for getting off the pain killers yet?
One other thing Joe. If you could write in paragraphs it would make it a lot easier to read your posts. That would draw more guys in to reading your posts and wanting to respond. Try to make it easy for the reader. It will pay you back dividends.
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sounds stupoid, but have you ever tried to correct you back issue with exercise such as streching and yoga?
Sometimes herniated disks can be pushed into place by putting pressure in the right direction, its takes time. But i actually had lower back pain due to a superior back curve wich came form tight muscles. The pressure caused pain on the disks.
Refixed my body and the pain has been away for 5years...
Sometimes herniated disks can be pushed into place by putting pressure in the right direction, its takes time. But i actually had lower back pain due to a superior back curve wich came form tight muscles. The pressure caused pain on the disks.
Refixed my body and the pain has been away for 5years...
oops.. sorry halfwit. The latest blood test was on it's own. taking nothing. three years ago I was on [Natural T]. My test was 173. After 5 weeks taking it I went for blood work & it went up to 436.I felt a bit better nothing crazy.had good libido.took it for 16 months.Not working couldn't afford them. The past year not working, I guess test has been around 211 the past year.& I Have Much More Fatigue In lower back with test being low.
last night & today I been reading a lot.Pain meds do cause secondary.this is what i found. i will post a new thread on it so anyone on pain meds can read it.
Low Testosterone Goes Largely Unrecognized
Although quite common, Opioid-induced androgen deficiency and has gone largely unrecognized by the medical community(1). Low testosterone is caused by opioid drug inhibition of LH (Leutininizing Hormone), a pituitary hormone involved in testosterone production, as well direct inhibition of testosterone itself. Similarly, there is also inhibition of the entire endocrine system, and adrenal hormone suppression.
Symptoms of low testosterone include fatigue, depression, hot flashes, night sweats, diminished libido, erectile dysfunction, and diminished sexual arousal and satisfaction. Men may also develop osteoporosis, anemia, and diminished muscle mass. (2)(3) Women who consume opioid-pain pills will stop having menstrual cycles and will notice greatly diminished libido (sex drive). (5)
Opioid-induced androgen deficiency has become one of the most common causes of testosterone deficiency among men in many communities. Its increase parallels the large increase in opioid use. This form of hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism is present in most men chronically consuming sustained-action opioids, including those receiving methadone for heroin addiction and those consuming opioids for control of either malignant or non-malignant chronic pain. A similar, but less well defined illness occurs in women. Opioid-induced androgen deficiency is not widely recognized. This review examines its pathophysiology, some of its signs and symptoms, and indicates some areas where current observations suggest additional investigations would be fruitful.
& Yes.. I do streching just about every day. & push ups. 13 Epidorals.. 1 Medial Branch Block. {For Nerve Pain}. I had a disc in my lower neck that was out & by doing push ups & working with dumbells it went back in. I had 4 discs total. Now I have 3. 2 lower back. 1 in the middle Back. 1 pushing on my spinal cord.[witch gives me horendise pressure] the other 2 i feel ,but nothing to take a pill. all Back problem caused by being a truck driver.Sitting for 12 hrs. a day. for past 28 years.
My wife as of May 9th. of this year. has 6 discs that are bulging. She does secretary work.sits all day for 9 hrs.
I need the Fentanyl patches.oxy's i been cutting down. If i put more patches on i don't need the pills.& One major problem is my body can't take generics.The patches are wett under it after 6 hrs.
I know of a machine [DRX9000] that is used on hurinated discs.I'm waiting to try it.problem,they don't take medicade.gotta go on wife's insurance to get it done.
If it work's.. I can GET OFF PAIN MEDS..Thats my plan...!!!!!! If Not, Them I'm going To N.Y. Hospital Of Special Surgery.$2,500.00 Where they do the work like the one on TV. {Laser Institute.} I checked with them & they want $22,000. They use Laser & cut the disc thats sticking out. 4 To 6 week ,, Recovery..
I got the shot of test cypionate on june 26. only one so far. I felt better after a week. it's been 5 weeks since. back to felling like I did before i got it. & Taking Stacker RX. No.17 Natural Test Booster. Should I try TRT for the time till i get off med's. or do monotherphy. I been reading on monotherapy.see what i can find.
Thank You Megatron28... & halfwit.....!!!!!!!
My Blood Work Dose'nt have LH / FSH .. That I See.. Just testosterone...
I Spoke With IMT yesterday, [Todd] & I'm Approved..!!!!! Ready To Go. Just Need To Pay. Deciding on what to do.. That's why I'm Here.. Looking For Help..!!!! Anyone's help work be greatly appreachated.
last night & today I been reading a lot.Pain meds do cause secondary.this is what i found. i will post a new thread on it so anyone on pain meds can read it.
Low Testosterone Goes Largely Unrecognized
Although quite common, Opioid-induced androgen deficiency and has gone largely unrecognized by the medical community(1). Low testosterone is caused by opioid drug inhibition of LH (Leutininizing Hormone), a pituitary hormone involved in testosterone production, as well direct inhibition of testosterone itself. Similarly, there is also inhibition of the entire endocrine system, and adrenal hormone suppression.
Symptoms of low testosterone include fatigue, depression, hot flashes, night sweats, diminished libido, erectile dysfunction, and diminished sexual arousal and satisfaction. Men may also develop osteoporosis, anemia, and diminished muscle mass. (2)(3) Women who consume opioid-pain pills will stop having menstrual cycles and will notice greatly diminished libido (sex drive). (5)
Opioid-induced androgen deficiency has become one of the most common causes of testosterone deficiency among men in many communities. Its increase parallels the large increase in opioid use. This form of hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism is present in most men chronically consuming sustained-action opioids, including those receiving methadone for heroin addiction and those consuming opioids for control of either malignant or non-malignant chronic pain. A similar, but less well defined illness occurs in women. Opioid-induced androgen deficiency is not widely recognized. This review examines its pathophysiology, some of its signs and symptoms, and indicates some areas where current observations suggest additional investigations would be fruitful.
& Yes.. I do streching just about every day. & push ups. 13 Epidorals.. 1 Medial Branch Block. {For Nerve Pain}. I had a disc in my lower neck that was out & by doing push ups & working with dumbells it went back in. I had 4 discs total. Now I have 3. 2 lower back. 1 in the middle Back. 1 pushing on my spinal cord.[witch gives me horendise pressure] the other 2 i feel ,but nothing to take a pill. all Back problem caused by being a truck driver.Sitting for 12 hrs. a day. for past 28 years.
My wife as of May 9th. of this year. has 6 discs that are bulging. She does secretary work.sits all day for 9 hrs.
I need the Fentanyl patches.oxy's i been cutting down. If i put more patches on i don't need the pills.& One major problem is my body can't take generics.The patches are wett under it after 6 hrs.
I know of a machine [DRX9000] that is used on hurinated discs.I'm waiting to try it.problem,they don't take medicade.gotta go on wife's insurance to get it done.
If it work's.. I can GET OFF PAIN MEDS..Thats my plan...!!!!!! If Not, Them I'm going To N.Y. Hospital Of Special Surgery.$2,500.00 Where they do the work like the one on TV. {Laser Institute.} I checked with them & they want $22,000. They use Laser & cut the disc thats sticking out. 4 To 6 week ,, Recovery..
I got the shot of test cypionate on june 26. only one so far. I felt better after a week. it's been 5 weeks since. back to felling like I did before i got it. & Taking Stacker RX. No.17 Natural Test Booster. Should I try TRT for the time till i get off med's. or do monotherphy. I been reading on monotherapy.see what i can find.
Thank You Megatron28... & halfwit.....!!!!!!!
My Blood Work Dose'nt have LH / FSH .. That I See.. Just testosterone...
I Spoke With IMT yesterday, [Todd] & I'm Approved..!!!!! Ready To Go. Just Need To Pay. Deciding on what to do.. That's why I'm Here.. Looking For Help..!!!! Anyone's help work be greatly appreachated.
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halfwit
I like turtles.
It's really a shame your blood tests don't include LH/FSH and estradiol. I'm really boggled at how another junk supplement was able to bring your testosterone up several hundred points as that was the first thing I tried when I began to suspect I had low testosterone myself. I tried thousands of dollars worth of supplements and had zero results whatsoever.
You actually taught me something today as I had never read that opiates can also cause pituitary suppression (secondary hypogonadism) as the very few studies I've come across only discussed leydig cell destruction (primary). I'm actually really glad now that I had baselined myself to see which category I fell into. Thanks for that information!
It sounds like you've been busy with learning how to remedy your back issues. That's a great first step, and it will be awesome for you to get off those pain meds for sure. I shudder to think what I would have had to pay out of pocket if I hadn't been injured on the job for multiple knee surgeries - I do not envy you in that regard one bit.
Is there a reason why you only received one shot from the urologist? It just seems weird (and a bad practice) to shut you down with an injection and leave you hanging. I'm not a patient of IMT, but I have heard many good things about them. I do believe that you would be in good hands.
It will be interesting to see what path they will take with you, as you may simply be suppressed. I would certainly give it some thought as they are far more knowledgeable than any doctor I've ever seen, and would likely be able to tackle your situation in a timely manner as I do feel being hypogonadal makes your situation far worse.
Please keep us updated on which way you plan on going as I do not think that over the counter pills have any true merit, unless there's something to the estradiol "flushing" agents many contain like DIIM, that your body is somehow reacting to in a positive manner.
You actually taught me something today as I had never read that opiates can also cause pituitary suppression (secondary hypogonadism) as the very few studies I've come across only discussed leydig cell destruction (primary). I'm actually really glad now that I had baselined myself to see which category I fell into. Thanks for that information!
It sounds like you've been busy with learning how to remedy your back issues. That's a great first step, and it will be awesome for you to get off those pain meds for sure. I shudder to think what I would have had to pay out of pocket if I hadn't been injured on the job for multiple knee surgeries - I do not envy you in that regard one bit.
Is there a reason why you only received one shot from the urologist? It just seems weird (and a bad practice) to shut you down with an injection and leave you hanging. I'm not a patient of IMT, but I have heard many good things about them. I do believe that you would be in good hands.
It will be interesting to see what path they will take with you, as you may simply be suppressed. I would certainly give it some thought as they are far more knowledgeable than any doctor I've ever seen, and would likely be able to tackle your situation in a timely manner as I do feel being hypogonadal makes your situation far worse.
Please keep us updated on which way you plan on going as I do not think that over the counter pills have any true merit, unless there's something to the estradiol "flushing" agents many contain like DIIM, that your body is somehow reacting to in a positive manner.
whoknew2015
New member
Sounds like you think highly of IMT and based on seeing some of your post your post count and rep score I think I would like to know how to get in touch with IMT my self for help. Can any one guide me on how to get in touch or a website where I can talk to them for normal HRT?
Megatron28
Moderator
Their ad is on the right hand side of your screen if you are on the Full Site version.
whoknew2015
New member
Thanks prince and mega i did find there info by doing a search for IMT did not notice there add on the right. Thank you for reply though, filled out there contact form guess will wait to hear from someone there and go through process.
Thanks Again
Thanks Again
Your Welcome, anytime halfwit.
I Googled, [ Testosterone low from pain meds. help..] & Got This Link. https://google.com/search?q=testosterone+low+from+pain+meds..+help&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox
If You Go Down To Around the 6th link. or look for [Jeffery Dach MD.]
drdach.com/Low_Testosterone_Opiates.html
Theres a lot of stuff on opiates causing low test.
Also Dr.John Crisler on HCG is on that page.
From what I been reading ,AI Monotherphy will help using HCG.. The opiates are eating up the free test.. also ANY TYPE OF PRESCRIPTIONS..
I just got back from getting bloodwork. the script from urogolist had LH/FSH & Estradiol on it..So gotta wait till next week for results. Before Posting This Thread, I pm'd Megatron & he didn't recomend doing TRT just yet. So that's why I only got 1 shot of Test. cypionate. I don't wanna do that the rest of my life. kind of Costly.. Too..
Dealing With Low Test Right Now.. Trying To Find Info..If I should just do hcg.. Once I stop pain meds,my natural test should go right back up.If I do TRT it might supress it. Todd said it might be like doing a cycle..on my body.. after 3 months then try a AI Monotherphy..
Halfwit,pm me your email & I'll send you my Bloodwork..or you want me to post here.. what should i put here that you need to see.. thank you...!!
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halfwit
I like turtles.
It would be best just to post your blood work in this thread as I sometimes get busy with work, and don't always get to the forums as often as I'd like. There are quite a few guys here that can interpret them too.
Looking forward to seeing them though, I'm really curious what that pituitary is doing, as that's ultimately what's going to decide your next course of action.
Obviously it is a good idea to black out any personal information as this is a public forum.
Looking forward to seeing them though, I'm really curious what that pituitary is doing, as that's ultimately what's going to decide your next course of action.
Obviously it is a good idea to black out any personal information as this is a public forum.
It would be best just to post your blood work in this thread as I sometimes get busy with work, and don't always get to the forums as often as I'd like. There are quite a few guys here that can interpret them too.
Looking forward to seeing them though, I'm really curious what that pituitary is doing, as that's ultimately what's going to decide your next course of action.
Obviously it is a good idea to black out any personal information as this is a public forum.
Here's My Blood work... Like To Know Whats Going On,,Let Me Know...Thank You..!!
View attachment 562434
View attachment 562435
View attachment 562436
I had a tough time getting these transferred to you. File size issues, but it is in picture format. I hope you can see them.
PS: I spoke to Todd and suggested I do the 3 month cycle. I am going to the urologist tomorrow morning for a shot - 100mg
Any thoughts?
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Megatron28
Moderator
Blood work indicates Hypogonadism, but without LH and FSH yet we cannot determine which type.
Your vitamin D levels are very low. I would recommend aupplementing 10,000iu of Vitamin D3 daily.
Thyroid (TSH) could be a little better. But not at the point requiring treatment. Improving TT would likely improve your thyroid function.
Everything else looks fine.
Your vitamin D levels are very low. I would recommend aupplementing 10,000iu of Vitamin D3 daily.
Thyroid (TSH) could be a little better. But not at the point requiring treatment. Improving TT would likely improve your thyroid function.
Everything else looks fine.
Here's my latest blood work.. with LH & FSH... 2 Weeks ago... Today I Recieved my package from Todd @ IMT... Gonna do 3 months of TRT to get my test up...After that see if I'm off the pain meds & then do AI Monotherapy..or just clomid... Todds gonna see what would be best for me... I have 2 shots test cyp. 200mg so far. 1 a week..In me..from urologist office..
Tomorrow [friday] start the plan from IMT.. I feel a lot better so far. seem to be bla wensday,thursday,friday though. each week. I'm thinking the pain meds are eating up the test cyp also..
Some Stuff is missing.. Don't know how my vitaman intake is.. You'r input would be great.. Thank You for the help..!!
View attachment 562490View attachment 562491View attachment 562492View attachment 562493
Megatron28
Moderator
What did your Total Testosterone come in at this time? I can't see it on there.
If You click on them they'll open up.. tt is 4.7 -- 323.. it was 211. taking the natural booster..only took it for a couple days before blood work.
Megatron28
Moderator
Isn't that your Free Testosterone?
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