Are you saying if I take Ketotifen along with my clen I don't have to cycle the clen ? Never heard of this. It would be nice. Can anybody back this up ?
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- Thread starter Manski
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snowpatrol123
New member
Even with ketotifen I wouldn't run clen longer than 3 or 4 weeks straight, max.
And I'm pretty liberal with stims.
And I'm pretty liberal with stims.
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
Of course. Keto upregulates the beta 2 receptors, meaning that the clen wont become ineffective after two weeks. Keto combined with clen just keep the clean working at its full potential non stop. I've used clen for a couple 6+week runs before, no worries. The only reason people cycle on and off every two weeks is because when the receptors down regulate the clen just stops working (cant be absorbed.)
Just keep an eye on your heart rate, especially while training.
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
Not knocking you bro, but do you mind if I ask why? I've never heard of or personally practiced short runs with stimulants, other than clen without keto of course. Do you find it gets too much after 4 weeks?
Apart from the odd cramp (i use l-taurine to stop these) i've had no issues yet any of the times i've run clen, and they've all been well over two weeks.
snowpatrol123
New member
No offense taken - I'll link a few things from my work computer tmr, at home on my laptop right now. Basically I'm concerned with ventricular hypertrophy, as well as the diminished efficacy past a certain period, even when you add ketotifen in.
I'm also open to being corrected - as I've said before, definitely no scientist, I just try to do my research before I inject / inject something nowadays
Squatter13
New member
Big fan of EC. It helps me a lot -- not so much with the fat burning/metabolism aspect, more the diet control.. when I run a tight deficit and want to be on point EC can help disable my appetite pretty strong. I have a beastly appetite which makes cuts...challenging 
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
Hahah me too brother - thats why we're all here really, to learn. I always take L-Carnitine with any clen cycles, I read somewhere its very good for protecting the heart.. Aswell as aiding in fatloss. I'm aware of ventricular hypertrophy being a possible side effect, and ii could be totally wrong but I either read somewhere or maybe just assumed its one of the rarer side effects. I've read quite a few logs of longer clen cycles, maybe thats what sort of justified it in my mind - "nothing happened to them, so i'll be fine" attitude I guess.
Like I said I have done a few long runs of clen, and no issues yet. Maybe I've just been lucky, but what I'd assume it would be is that there is a risk of damage to the heart when using any stimulant. And the higher dose and longer the duration the riskier it would be.
henryjunior
New member
Clenbuterol (astralean) is a great fat burner used my most athletes. It helps you gain muscles and lose fat fast.
Chicago712
Pro Bodybuilder
yummm, Alpha Pharm astralean... best clen i've ever taken and am currently running it
snowpatrol123
New member
Re-read my post from last night and I meant to say injest or inject, by the way lol. I don't have as many links saved as I thought, I must've read / digested and dismissed some of them.
Here's the one that prompted me to do some more reading, initially:
The side effects of Clenbuterol
This link is more vague, but re-iterates the findings shown in studies on rats (note, not human)
Performance and Image Enhancing Drugs
Anytime there's a lack of study of longterm effects on a decent sample size of HUMANS plus an adequate control group I'm wary of assigning too much weight to the findings.
I won't get into the details, but I'll just say for a few years I was using a ridiculous amount of coke. Breaking even with a six figure salary amounts. So even though I passed an ECG with flying colours I don't want to tempt fate more than necessary.
Here's the one that prompted me to do some more reading, initially:
The side effects of Clenbuterol
This link is more vague, but re-iterates the findings shown in studies on rats (note, not human)
Performance and Image Enhancing Drugs
Anytime there's a lack of study of longterm effects on a decent sample size of HUMANS plus an adequate control group I'm wary of assigning too much weight to the findings.
I won't get into the details, but I'll just say for a few years I was using a ridiculous amount of coke. Breaking even with a six figure salary amounts. So even though I passed an ECG with flying colours I don't want to tempt fate more than necessary.
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Thanks a ton bro ! Good thanks for the heads up on the bronkhaid ! Was able to pick it up no prob ! Can't believe it was that easy. I was looking all over for ephedrine on the web with no one wanting to ship to my state ! I once was a huge coke head myself ! Over 3'years clean now. Started with just selling it then made the mistake by trying it. Waisted 15 years of my life ! Lots of jail time and prison as well. I'm going to cycle the clen, two on, two off. In between I will run the ephedrine, aspirin, caffeine mix two times a day. Thanks again everybody for their help.
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
Thanks for the links bro, good read. I'd love to see something done in humans.. But like you said its good to be wary until thats been done.
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
Just for future notice, all studies done on non-humans should be considered moot as far as evidence is concerned
There are literally 100s of studies showing how effective ketotifen is at preventing beta adrenoceptor down regulation. Here are just a few that I particularly liked:
Effects of ketotifen on the responsive... [Int J Immunopharmacol. 1988] - PubMed - NCBI
This study showed that long term ketotifen use (1 year) is associated with increased responsiveness of beta-receptors to stimulation by catecholamines.
Effects of ketotifen and clenbuterol on... [Z Erkr Atmungsorgane. 1990] - PubMed - NCBI
This study is more relevant since it involves clen directly and concluded that after 3 MONTHS of continued use:
"There was no difference between the beta-adrenergic receptor function in asthmatic patients treated with clenbuterol alone vs. untreated healthies. Applying ketotifen and clenbuterol together the beta-adrenergic receptor function increased compared to the values obtained after application of clenbuterol alone (intraindividual-control) as well as vs. the group of healthies (control). Data presented support the view that therapeutic doses of selective beta 2-agonists do not lead to damage of the beta-adrenoceptor function.
The evidence clearly shows that clen is still effective even after a very long period of time.
I've personally cycled DNP with Clen & ketotifen (acting as a antihistimine) very well after great advice from a vet here, but thats another story for another time.
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snowpatrol123
New member
I don't have an account at pubmed, what doses of clen are involved in those human studies?
Slakethythirst
New member
I second the posts about diet and exercise, I have used many products for weight loss from lipo6 to clen and the only variable in the equation that really affects my weight loss is diet and proper exercise. If you want an extra edge you can get results from
Ephedrine caffeine aspirin stack but
Only with proper diet and exercise. Clen I have heard works well in two week pulses but only when you are already very low in bf% and want to get shredded. Even then, it is only a helping tool.
Good luck!
Ephedrine caffeine aspirin stack but
Only with proper diet and exercise. Clen I have heard works well in two week pulses but only when you are already very low in bf% and want to get shredded. Even then, it is only a helping tool.
Good luck!
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
I assume your referring to the second study since the first one dealt with isoproterenol (another beta 2 agonist).
They used different doses in the study & ketotifen was seen to be effective for doses between 60-120mcg per day (depending on the persons weight, etc).
There was one study (can't seem to find it right now) that slowly increased the dose to over 700mcg/day. You might think that sounds high, but they only increased the dose by 20mcg each week over many months. With such a slow increase, the dose was always low relative to sensitivity (ensuring its effectiveness).
Edit: I should add that I haven't seen any evidence suggesting Benadryl does the same thing, so for those people who are using it for ketotifen style benefits - I've got some bad news for you...
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PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
Awesome read. Thanks again for posting studies bro.
What are your thoughts on heart damage (in particular ventricular hypertrophy) from extended use of clen? Thats all I'd really be worried about if i were to run it again...
What are your thoughts on heart damage (in particular ventricular hypertrophy) from extended use of clen? Thats all I'd really be worried about if i were to run it again...
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
Left ventricular hypertrophy in particular does seem to be a concern but the studies/real life results are conflicted on this.
On the one hand you have a study showing clen being tolerated very well in patients with chronic heart failure to begin with:
Clenbuterol increases lean muscle ma... [J Heart Lung Transplant. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI
On the other hand you hear stories of clen abuse and the consequences of it:
Myocardial ischemia associated with clenbuterol ... [J Emerg Med. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI
In my opinion, staying on clen for 8-12 weeks, slowly increasing the dose weekly, shouldn't cause any major issues. Using clen year round with sudden increases in dosage will probably be a different story.
Its a simple case of being moderate with the dosing and length of the cycle.
henryjunior
New member
Hi.
I used Clen when I was a cyclist (don't judge, the sport is full of it you know) and it played havoc with me, mass sweating due to my core temperature being so high, constant shaking too, felt like i had Parkinson's lol.
Also struggled getting a good nights sleep, always felt wide awake and would only even manage a few hours at a time before waking up again.
I will say my fat% drop to 3% from 6% but this wasn't the reason I took it, performance-wise I feel that I was far more efficient and my lung capacity seemed much higher!
Btw I got Clen online on generic-meds-store.com as it costedme much less.
I used Clen when I was a cyclist (don't judge, the sport is full of it you know) and it played havoc with me, mass sweating due to my core temperature being so high, constant shaking too, felt like i had Parkinson's lol.
Also struggled getting a good nights sleep, always felt wide awake and would only even manage a few hours at a time before waking up again.
I will say my fat% drop to 3% from 6% but this wasn't the reason I took it, performance-wise I feel that I was far more efficient and my lung capacity seemed much higher!
Btw I got Clen online on generic-meds-store.com as it costedme much less.
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