Best way to train back?......
- Thread starter 49ER
- Start date
woodc19
New member
Wide Grip Pull downs and different variations of rows always worked for me
halfwit
I like turtles.
This is pretty much what I do. I do both narrow and wide grip seated rows, wide grip pull-downs, shoulder-width bent-over rows, and pull-overs. I wish my gym had bigger dumbbells as I really feel good stimulation from single arm db rows.
You should have seen me yesterday after i got a temp ban somewhere else i was lifting the whole stack on pull downd whole stack on cable rows and 5 45lb plates each side of the hammer strenghth pull down machine, fucken tren rage!! Lol ill try what you say though
You would be surprised. Even if you drop your weight 20-30% and do a slower rep its crazy what kind of pump you get. I'll do drop sets too. I haven't gotten any injuries or anything since lowering my weight. Like I said is hard to wrap your head around it at first...
Wolverine9
New member
I've been doing pendlay rows for the last 1.5 months and it's added quite a bit of mass to my upper back.
Southernfish
New member
Im with tbone on this one. Big weights dont equal big muscles. I have notice a MAJOR improvement since having lowered the weight (not only for back) and actually focusing on feeling the muscle pull the weight through the whole movement.
And, I know its gonna sound sissy, but use straps. Being able to pull crazy amounts of weight without straps isnt going to make your back grow. Your hand is meant only as a hook. You want to pull the weight back with your elbows and if the weight is too heavy you automatically pull with you hands which is incorrect.
Also, there isnt a best exercise for width or a best exercise for thickness. You want a big wide back? You have to develop the whole entire back! The back is an extremely complex muscle group that needs to be hit from MANY angles to stimulate all of it. Doing the same old shit from the same angles isnt going to do anything.
One last thing......machines machines machines, and rack pulls. You can maintain FAR better tension on you back using machines so I use a ton of them. My whole back workout is machines except one free weight exercise (BB row DB row or rack pulls) I used to do all free weight and one or two machines since having switched my back has improved significantly as well.
And, I know its gonna sound sissy, but use straps. Being able to pull crazy amounts of weight without straps isnt going to make your back grow. Your hand is meant only as a hook. You want to pull the weight back with your elbows and if the weight is too heavy you automatically pull with you hands which is incorrect.
Also, there isnt a best exercise for width or a best exercise for thickness. You want a big wide back? You have to develop the whole entire back! The back is an extremely complex muscle group that needs to be hit from MANY angles to stimulate all of it. Doing the same old shit from the same angles isnt going to do anything.
One last thing......machines machines machines, and rack pulls. You can maintain FAR better tension on you back using machines so I use a ton of them. My whole back workout is machines except one free weight exercise (BB row DB row or rack pulls) I used to do all free weight and one or two machines since having switched my back has improved significantly as well.
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tury694
Pale Gorilla
I agree with the machines for back. I pick free weights for everything but back, other than deadlift and bent over rows. Rows on a cable feel much more effective than bent over rows with barbell or dumbell. I don't like the cables but it just works better for back. Only downside is that some of the machines run too low on max weight. Poor design choice for a gym like Powerhouse which caters to power lifters.
Roush
I am banned!
Make doing pull ups a habit.. Not just as part of your routine, but something you do often. Use straps to take your arms out of the move and to help isolate your back..,again, make it a habit. After a year of doing something habitually you will notice the difference and your back will be thicker
Not my advice, got it from former pro dr. Colker
Not my advice, got it from former pro dr. Colker
oldmusclemike
Well-known member
Ya know there are only so many exercises. I like all these posts. Everyone is describing what they do as what responds best for them. I have used Arnold's Encyclopedia for BB since the early 80's. The book will never expire in it's awesome explanations of what exercises work best for "whatever" and then the stance, grip like hands in /out, feet pointed in / out and on and on. This information is invaluable and will NEVER change.
What we all need to do as Arnold professes is the mind and muscle connection. While lifting heavy as we need to, we sometimes loose mental focus / connection to the muscle intended to be used. When heavy even if we do not cheat we / me use many different muscles not intended. By this I don't mean stabilizers and secondary which is needed sometimes.
I'm talking about wrists, forearms etc.... Using lighter weights (just a little) allows us to squeeze as was said. It allows us to sometimes relax the other muscles to get a fast explosive movement with only pec's, tri's, bi's etc... Example would be stop relax and go with bench. Go with only Pectoral.
This way to lift will promote more growth at a faster rate. It is how the pro's think to lift with all their lifts heavy or light.
Slower positives and NEGATIVES, not locking out and remaining under stress. As said that's what straps are for
That's all I got guys
Hypnotix
Well-known member
49ER, if you're still following this, I'd like to give my input.
As stated above, the back is a pretty large array of muscles. Lots of nooks and crannies, that if not developed properly.. Will throw the whole package off.
I don't have an amazing back, BUT, it wasn't until I incorporated a few new movements (actually just alternative methods of my normal movements) that I began seeing that "widening" you're looking for. Once my back began to really spread out, everything else that I'd been working on started to finally show.
Most people do the normal back routines consisting of : Bent over rows, BB rows, Dlifts, wide pulldowns, narrow rows..
All of these exercises are great, but I got frustrated and did a little searching on building my back.. cause it sucked, at least that's how I felt about it.. I probably judge myself more critically than any other person has ever judged me haha
Anyway, what helps is to continue doing the same movements (cause they're fucking great exercises) just change HOW you're performing them. The Back is a complex group of muscles, and so requires a complex approach at developing it with any sort of symmetry in mind..
When I say change HOW.. evaluate..
1. How long you're taking to do the reps, up/down, in/out, the intrinsic and extrinsic. You can go slow or fast.. make it your preference just focus on where the weight is keeping tension on the muscle and keep it in that zone of tension the entire set. So, if I'm pulling down my bar for wide grip pulldowns.. I'm looking for the starting point of tension, where I being pulling. And then just before the end of tension where I'd go below my shoulders.. stay in this "zone" and go as slow or as fast as you prefer, just go to failure and adjust the weight to fit the amount of reps you would need to fail.
2. Sorry the first was long but it's the most important in my opinion. Anyhow, next I'd like to recommend alternative methods of traditional movements.
One that I LOVE now is rather than doing wide pulldowns, I'll alternate weeks with an underhanded mid grip pulldown. This really wreaks havoc on the area we have a hard time reaching to wash.. the muscles right around the spine, directly center mass. This won't target if you will, the outer spot that a wide pulldown would, but it will sure as shit develop mass that will spread those areas out further. When performing underhanded mid grip pulldowns, arch your back and keep tight, when you pull to the chest, squeeze at the bottom as tight as possible each rep.. even hold if you'd like. You won't regret adding this one in.
Some others, would be wide grip seated rows, mid grip seated rows, underhanded of both.. rack pulls, DB bent over rows with an underhand (curling) grip or standing rather than bent over a bench, or even wide stanced and applying all weight to your hand and grounded foot.. I'm sure it's getting redundant now.. but these are all good and different. The back needs different for most individuals.
I've implemented every variation above, but particularly enjoy the mid grip underhand pulldowns, the wide grip seated rows, and rack pulls (As made famous by Schredder).
This approach can obviously be used for developing any area.
3. Do any exercise and just touch the part of your body you're wanting to develop, areas you can't touch, do a light weight and really focus on feeling the area when you are performing the movement.. Focus on the mind/muscle connection and get in touch with your body. Then just think.. how can I develop this area most effectively, which exercise(s), what stance, what weight... So many variables to consider. It can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be.. but in my opinion just as much thinking should be happening as there is doing.. after all our thinker controls everything we're trying to develop!
If I think of anything else I'll be sure to come back and write more lol Hopefully not though, you're probably snoring by this point haha
Hope this helps!
As stated above, the back is a pretty large array of muscles. Lots of nooks and crannies, that if not developed properly.. Will throw the whole package off.
I don't have an amazing back, BUT, it wasn't until I incorporated a few new movements (actually just alternative methods of my normal movements) that I began seeing that "widening" you're looking for. Once my back began to really spread out, everything else that I'd been working on started to finally show.
Most people do the normal back routines consisting of : Bent over rows, BB rows, Dlifts, wide pulldowns, narrow rows..
All of these exercises are great, but I got frustrated and did a little searching on building my back.. cause it sucked, at least that's how I felt about it.. I probably judge myself more critically than any other person has ever judged me haha
Anyway, what helps is to continue doing the same movements (cause they're fucking great exercises) just change HOW you're performing them. The Back is a complex group of muscles, and so requires a complex approach at developing it with any sort of symmetry in mind..
When I say change HOW.. evaluate..
1. How long you're taking to do the reps, up/down, in/out, the intrinsic and extrinsic. You can go slow or fast.. make it your preference just focus on where the weight is keeping tension on the muscle and keep it in that zone of tension the entire set. So, if I'm pulling down my bar for wide grip pulldowns.. I'm looking for the starting point of tension, where I being pulling. And then just before the end of tension where I'd go below my shoulders.. stay in this "zone" and go as slow or as fast as you prefer, just go to failure and adjust the weight to fit the amount of reps you would need to fail.
2. Sorry the first was long but it's the most important in my opinion. Anyhow, next I'd like to recommend alternative methods of traditional movements.
One that I LOVE now is rather than doing wide pulldowns, I'll alternate weeks with an underhanded mid grip pulldown. This really wreaks havoc on the area we have a hard time reaching to wash.. the muscles right around the spine, directly center mass. This won't target if you will, the outer spot that a wide pulldown would, but it will sure as shit develop mass that will spread those areas out further. When performing underhanded mid grip pulldowns, arch your back and keep tight, when you pull to the chest, squeeze at the bottom as tight as possible each rep.. even hold if you'd like. You won't regret adding this one in.
Some others, would be wide grip seated rows, mid grip seated rows, underhanded of both.. rack pulls, DB bent over rows with an underhand (curling) grip or standing rather than bent over a bench, or even wide stanced and applying all weight to your hand and grounded foot.. I'm sure it's getting redundant now.. but these are all good and different. The back needs different for most individuals.
I've implemented every variation above, but particularly enjoy the mid grip underhand pulldowns, the wide grip seated rows, and rack pulls (As made famous by Schredder).
This approach can obviously be used for developing any area.
3. Do any exercise and just touch the part of your body you're wanting to develop, areas you can't touch, do a light weight and really focus on feeling the area when you are performing the movement.. Focus on the mind/muscle connection and get in touch with your body. Then just think.. how can I develop this area most effectively, which exercise(s), what stance, what weight... So many variables to consider. It can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be.. but in my opinion just as much thinking should be happening as there is doing.. after all our thinker controls everything we're trying to develop!
If I think of anything else I'll be sure to come back and write more lol Hopefully not though, you're probably snoring by this point haha
Hope this helps!
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Southernfish
New member
Heres another little trick that will help you get the best possible contraction throughout your whole back. When performing almost all back exercises (closegrip rows BB row, cable pulldowns etc) at the point of contraction try to, in your mind pull the bar apart or in the case of a CG cable row, pull the handles apart from eachother. Let take the seated HS row for example as well. If you are using a grip thats parallel to the floor then same thing, try to pull the machine apart. If you are using a grip that is perpendicular to the floor (hammer) then at the point of contraction push down as hard as you can with the bottom of your hand.
Always let the shoulder extend fully at the stretched position and before any pulling movement whatsoever make sure t
you bring your shoulders down and back FIRST.
Always let the shoulder extend fully at the stretched position and before any pulling movement whatsoever make sure t
you bring your shoulders down and back FIRST.
bigben66
New member
THIS ^^^^^^
99% of gym users concentrate on moving the chosen weight from A to B.... they fail to remember that the moving of that weight from A to B needs to be done by the muscle that you are intending to train. I've been training with a detached tricep for the last month waiting for my operation date to come - and I have actually gained pec size by taking the tricep out of the workout! I have had to press, fly, cable the resistance purely with my pecs - I have no other option!
With regard to the back, you'll see the majority of guys in the gym rowing and pulling seriously heavy weights for reps.... but if you asked them to hold a peak contraction, they wouldn't be able to without hip or shoulder involvement, and they certainly wouldn't be holding the tension on the muscle being trained.
I have found that stripping pretty much every exercise back to basics with light weights, linking the muscle being trained with the mind, and then overloading progressively week by week, I have made fantastic gains compared to where I was a while back.
Best bit of advice I ever got in the gym was to start every set like a golfer does when preparing to play a shot. He will have the same pre-shot routine every time, making the chances of him messing up less likely.... I set myself, check the selected weight is right, check posture, alignment and then remind myself of the key factors for that particular set - ie: straight back, legs flexed, elbows tucked in etc etc - and I find that doing this, that pretty much every set I do counts.
I've introduced a lot more posing, stretching and flexing between sets to encourage the mind/muscle link to get stronger and I feel I can now control every muscle in my body through thought alone.
Try this for your back.... Step into a doorway and place your forearms on the frame so that your upper arms are parallel to the floor and your forearms point to the ceiling like an old-fashioned pec-dec. Now step forward and you'll obviously feel a nice pec stretch, but hold this position and try to get your mind in tune with your back... can you move your teres major? Can you squeeze your lower traps? Can you tighten your lower lats? All whilst holding this position in the doorframe.
It's only when you get your mind in tune with these muscles and you are able to contract them - that you'll start to be able to target them individually during your workout.
I'll no doubt get some old-school lifters jumping on this and ripping it apart now, but I can only go by the obvious improvements that introducing the mind/muscle link has made to my body - and share it with the group.
Remember: weightlifting and bodybuilding are two totally separate disciplines!
Weightlifting is about moving as much weight as possible for minimal reps.
Bodybuilding is about moving moderate/heavy weight for a preset amount of reps to stimulate hypertrophy in a target muscle group.
You want back size - which makes you a bodybuilder. So you need to train, eat, and use AAS with solely building muscle in mind.
Don't let those goals get lost mid workout!
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