Blood work update.....whats the next step?

Atlaz

Atlaz

New member
Hi there

I'm 31 and have been taking prescribed Novaldex for a couple of months now after a Low T diagnose back in March.
I currently feel no to little improvement on Novaldex. ( I tried Clomid then switch to Nolva ). My current protocol on Novaldex is 20mg/daily + Aromasin 12.2mg twice a week. My doctor wants to put me on injections now but I want to get some feedback beforehand. Should I keep with Nolvadex and see if I get improvements? Any suggestion is appreciated......

So far I have taken 3 blood test since starting Nolva .

Baseline:

APRIL

Total Testosterone : 6.3 ( 6.1-27.1) nmol/L

Free T : 196 ( 110-660) pmol/L

Bio-available T : 4.4 ( 2.8-15.5) nmol/L

SHBG: 11 ( 13-84) nmol/L

Estradiol : 78 (40-160) pmol/L

FSH: 2.1 ( 1.0-19.0) IU/L

LH: 2 ( 1.0-9.0) IU/L

DHEAS : 7.7 (2,9-12.6) uml/L

Free T3: 5.4 (3.3-6.0) pmol/L

T4: 11.9 ( 9.0-19.1) pmol/L

Prolactin: 8 (3-13.) ug/L

Progesterone: 4 (0.5-6.6) nmol/L

--------------------------------------

May


Total Testosterone : 16.5 ( 6.1-27.1) nmol/L

Free T : 489 ( 110-660) pmol/L

SHBG: 15 ( 13-84) nmol/L

Estradiol : 124 (40-160) pmol/L

Bio-available T : 11.5 ( 2.8-15.5) nmol/L

FSH: 3.4 ( 1.0-19.0) IU/L

LH: 4 ( 1.0-9.0) IU/L

Hematocrit: 0.471 ( 0.410 - 0.510 L/L )

-------------------------------------

June

Total Testosterone : 15.9 ( 6.1-27.1) nmol/L

Free T : 473 ( 110-660) pmol/L

SHBG: 15 ( 13-84) nmol/L

Estradiol : 109 (40-160) pmol/L

Bio-available T : 11 ( 2.8-15.5) nmol/L

FSH: 2.7 ( 1.0-19.0) IU/L

LH: 2.9 ( 1.0-9.0) IU/L

Hematocrit: 0.477 ( 0.410 - 0.510 L/L )

------------------------------------

August

Total Testosterone : 18.4 ( 6.1-27.1) nmol/L

Free T : 500 ( 110-660) pmol/L

SHBG: 20 ( 13-84) nmol/L

Estradiol : 107 (40-160) pmol/L

Bio-available T : 11.7 ( 2.8-15.5) nmol/L

FSH: 3.6 ( 1.0-19.0) IU/L

LH: 5.9 ( 1.0-9.0) IU/L

Hematocrit: 0.428 ( 0.410 - 0.510 L/L )
 
Hey mate,

Little strange your LH is bouncing around the place. Your numbers have come up to semi-decent levels, but if you're finding no relief from your symptoms then you need to try something else.

I'd suggest trying AI monotherapy first. The reason SERMs like Nolva & Clomid don't often relieve symptoms even though they raise TT is because they also act as estrogens in the body too - which can mask the feeling of decent TT.

Since you seem able to produce normal enough levels you might consider something like Arimidex 1mg daily. Aromasin would be too weak, and it wouldn't have any benefit on your last protocol because the feedback loop was disengaged due to the nolva.

Failing that then go for TRT. AI Monotherapy is a way of avoiding TRT but you'd have to stay on it for life too. It's just more simple to take 1 pill a day and let your body regulate everything, as opposed to injections 2x week + AI + hCG + frequent blood testing + donations etc.
 
Last edited:
It looks like the Nolva is working. You can see the increase in your LH. Your TT is now at 530ng/dl which is pretty close to normal for a male your age.

You said you don't feel any improvement. What symptoms are you still experiencing?
 
PrinceDianabol said:
Hey mate,

Little strange your LH is bouncing around the place. Your numbers have come up to semi-decent levels, but if you're finding no relief from your symptoms then you need to try something else.

I'd suggest trying AI monotherapy first. The reason SERMs like Nolva & Clomid don't often relieve symptoms even though they raise TT is because they also act as estrogens in the body too - which can mask the feeling of decent TT.

Since you seem able to produce normal enough levels you might consider something like Arimidex 1mg daily. Aromasin would be too weak, and it wouldn't have any benefit on your last protocol because the feedback loop was disengaged due to the nolva.

Failing that then go for TRT. AI Monotherapy is a way of avoiding TRT but you'd have to stay on it for life too. It's just more simple to take 1 pill a day and let your body regulate everything, as opposed to injections 2x week + AI + hCG + frequent blood testing + donations etc.
Click to expand...




Hey thanks for the feedback Prince+Mega.

Really good info and I will be talking to my doctor about Arimidex. Hopefully he knows about it because last time we spoke he wanted to start injections at 155mg/cyp. Are you on injections Prince ? Ultimately would you say that they are worth it? Allot of guys seem to get real life changing results from them even tho I know its not a magic bullet.
 
Megatron28 said:
It looks like the Nolva is working. You can see the increase in your LH. Your TT is now at 530ng/dl which is pretty close to normal for a male your age.

You said you don't feel any improvement. What symptoms are you still experiencing?
Click to expand...

Negatives:

Ever since I started SERM's in March/April I had bloating issues. My weight is the same but my mid section is completely bloated. I have a beer belly. I dont even drink beer and the diet is clean lol . I take probiotic and enzymes to try to counter.

The depression/anxiety and lack of motivation is still going strong. The main reason I started this process was because of Depression/lack of motivation/apathy.

I am maybe expecting too much from all of this but how do you know when its " working"? Allot of guys report an elevation in mood.....


Positives:

My arms + legs have more definition and stronger.


---------------
 
Last edited:
Low Testosterone typically is not a cause of Depression. It can give guys anxiety though. So I hope you aren't expecting TRT to magically cure your depression.

What is your diet like? Do you know your macros? Diet usually is a bigger cause of bloatedness and a beer belly.

At the top of the TRT Forum is a sticky thread called Basic TRT Overview. I would encourage you to give it a read. It will give you a better understanding of how TRT works, what to expect from it, and some of my personal experience.

I do agree with Price that trying Arimidex-Monotherapy may be worth a try.

How is your sleep? Have you had a sleep study done?
 
Megatron28 said:
Low Testosterone typically is not a cause of Depression. It can give guys anxiety though. So I hope you aren't expecting TRT to magically cure your depression.

What is your diet like? Do you know your macros? Diet usually is a bigger cause of bloatedness and a beer belly.

At the top of the TRT Forum is a sticky thread called Basic TRT Overview. I would encourage you to give it a read. It will give you a better understanding of how TRT works, what to expect from it, and some of my personal experience.

I do agree with Price that trying Arimidex-Monotherapy may be worth a try.

How is your sleep? Have you had a sleep study done?
Click to expand...


I dont have a full on Depression but Apathy and anxiety is definitely the main fire wood in my case. I will read the threads and try suggestions.

Thanks .

* Edit:

If I dont feel much difference at my current levels does it mean that aiming for improve numbers wont make any difference? A guy at levels of 800-1000 will feel "better" than the guy at levels of 500? I know that is personal to each case but still....
 
Last edited:
Atlaz said:
Hey thanks for the feedback Prince+Mega.

Really good info and I will be talking to my doctor about Arimidex. Hopefully he knows about it because last time we spoke he wanted to start injections at 155mg/cyp. Are you on injections Prince ? Ultimately would you say that they are worth it? Allot of guys seem to get real life changing results from them even tho I know its not a magic bullet.
Click to expand...

I am, and they are certainly worth it for me. I did exhaust every other option I could though. Are you in Australia btw? Your baseline levels are right on the cutoff for PBS.


Atlaz said:
If I dont feel much difference at my current levels does it mean that aiming for improve numbers wont make any difference? A guy at levels of 800-1000 will feel "better" than the guy at levels of 500? I know that is personal to each case but still....
Click to expand...

Usually, yes. If you weren't on SERMs and maintained your current level you may well feel a lot better. Just depends if it's the SERMs that are masking the results or not. Maybe you need much higher TT? Who knows.
Try AI monotherapy, it should keep you around the same levels and see if you feel better. If not, then maybe opt for TRT and go for a higher TT.
 
Last edited:
Atlaz said:
I dont have a full on Depression but Apathy and anxiety is definitely the main fire wood in my case. I will read the threads and try suggestions.

Thanks .

* Edit:

If I dont feel much difference at my current levels does it mean that aiming for improve numbers wont make any difference? A guy at levels of 800-1000 will feel "better" than the guy at levels of 500? I know that is personal to each case but still....
Click to expand...

I am on TRT too. I feel a little better at 800-1000. I notice that my recovery time after lifting weights or playing sports is a little faster. And I feel like I can see progress in the gym come a little faster. It is an incremental difference though. Not a day/night type difference.
 
I would exercise extreme caution starting off at 1 mg daily of adex....that is way too high a dose to start off....
That's my opinion though...
Curious as to why your doc went the nolvadex route?
Results don't look half bad.
How did u feel on clomid?
 
APOLLON said:
I would exercise extreme caution starting off at 1 mg daily of adex....that is way too high a dose to start off....
That's my opinion though...
Curious as to why your doc went the nolvadex route?
Results don't look half bad.
How did u feel on clomid?
Click to expand...

1mg daily is definitely not too high.. that's a pretty standard dose for monotherapy. His feedback loop is open.
 
PrinceDianabol said:
1mg daily is definitely not too high.. that's a pretty standard dose for monotherapy. His feedback loop is open.
Click to expand...

Adex monotherapy is individual...
Not everyone aromatizes the same...
I think it's wiser to start off lower but he's not even aromatizing that much if u look at his baseline levels....
7 mg of adex a week is not too much in your opinion?
His Estradiol all through treatment is OPTIMAL...
I don't see how lowering it even more will be safe or give him the desired effects he is looking for.
 
APOLLON said:
Adex monotherapy is individual...
Not everyone aromatizes the same...
I think it's wiser to start off lower but he's not even aromatizing that much if u look at his baseline levels....
7 mg of adex a week is not too much in your opinion?
His Estradiol all through treatment is OPTIMAL...
I don't see how lowering it even more will be safe or give him the desired effects he is looking for.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand how it works. The only way it will crush e2 is if the dose is high enough to bind to nearly ALL the aromatase enzymes in his body. Very unlikely.

The hypothalamus will still regulate e2 level in this scenario.

His e2 was optimal throughout the previous treatments because he was using an AI (with the feedback loop closed.) Without it, e2 would have been much higher. Therefore he probably does aromatase a fair bit. Considering the disastrously low TT at baseline (6nmol/L = ~170ng/dl) and still had e2 within range would also suggest he aromatizes a fair bit. A lot of natty guys would have that e2 with triple or quadtriple that TT.

I think the dose is fine. Like I said, it's a pretty standard starting dose. It can always be lowered or increased as needed.
 
PrinceDianabol said:
I don't think you understand how it works. The only way it will crush e2 is if the dose is high enough to bind to nearly ALL the aromatase enzymes in his body. Very unlikely.

The hypothalamus will still regulate e2 level in this scenario.

His e2 was optimal throughout the previous treatments because he was using an AI (with the feedback loop closed.) Without it, e2 would have been much higher. Therefore he probably does aromatase a fair bit. Considering the disastrously low TT at baseline (6nmol/L = ~170ng/dl) and still had e2 within range would also suggest he aromatizes a fair bit. A lot of natty guys would have that e2 with triple or quadtriple that TT.

I think the dose is fine. Like I said, it's a pretty standard starting dose. It can always be lowered or increased as needed.
Click to expand...

His dose of a.i.
Would be more in tune with aa "standard dose" of adex which would be 0.25 mg adex eod-e3d...
I think it's fair to say adex is a bit stronger than aromasin....

If I were the OP....I would start at 0.125 mg adex e0d and then run labs on it....

The aromasin on its own may be increasing TT, Bio Avail. T in this protocol more so than the Nolvadex.....
 
For what it's worth.....

I aromatize at a decent rate...
I had 412 ng/DL(14.3 nmol/l) TT and 37 pg/ml(134 pmol/l) reg panel estradiol....
0.25 mg eod crashed my Estradiol to less than 40 pmol/l....
Not saying I'm the same as everyone...
But looking back I would def go 0.125 mg eod adex....
 
APOLLON said:
His dose of a.i.
Would be more in tune with aa "standard dose" of adex which would be 0.25 mg adex eod-e3d...
I think it's fair to say adex is a bit stronger than aromasin....

If I were the OP....I would start at 0.125 mg adex e0d and then run labs on it....

The aromasin on its own may be increasing TT, Bio Avail. T in this protocol more so than the Nolvadex.....
Click to expand...

Yes, but the feedback loop was closed due to the use of SERMs. Not the case during AI monotherapy.
 
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