Classic Bodybuilding discussion

O

OnlyTheGreat

on my way
Hey guys

Just want to get some healthy discussion going. Maybe learn a thing or two about classic bodybuilding ( more around Arnold's time).

Do you guys think those physiques are attainable without the use of HGH, but by using AAS? Keep in mind the difference in compounds from then and now. Also that they rarely used test and for obvious reasons we will. However, I did read somewhere that Arnold used to sometimes take his dbol up to 120mg/day and Frank Zane was known as "The Chemist" ( he has my goal body btw since I'm quite similar in stature 5'10, 80kg, same wrist/ankle size, etc).

Just thought this would be interesting, considering so many people go for the "x" shape nowadays with monstrous legs.
 
I know many guys who have a similar physique to some of the "golden era" bodybuilders who have never used. A lot of those guys didn't do too much gear from what I have heard. I think it was used mostly to keep gains leading up to contest for most guys.
 
I know Arnold said that he only used leading up to a competition, simply to maintain mass. But I doubt he got that big training 3 hours a day, everyday without some chemical assistance. Do you mean physiques like Serge Nubret? I would think that AAS is necessary to achieve a body like the likes of Arnold, Sergio Oliva and Zane. The first gym I went into was a real old school gym in South Africa, and that is where I saw a photo of Zane. I wanted to be him and that's what inspired me to give bodybuilding my all
 
Frank Zane's nickname "the Chemist" comes from his use of vitamins and supplements not from AAS usage. There is a very high chance that he never used at all based on the availability of the drugs at his time. His physique can be attained naturally in my opinion.

Arnold on the other hand had no other obligations at the time. He had an apartment paid for by Jos Weider and a food/living allowance. His life on muscle beach consisted of eat, sleep, train and the occasional joint. Besides the way the workouts were arranged in that time were quite different from our "bro" splits.
 
I would agree that Frank Zane's physique is naturally obtainable. As far as drug use, I've heard him claim natural in interviews when comparing himself and his era to modern day bodybuilding. Did he really use? Only he knows for sure.

Just because Frank Zane did it, doesn't necessarily mean someone with similar stats could as well. Keep in mind these guys are elite athletes. I know you don't want the X look but just because someone is using gear and growth hormone doesn't mean you can be Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman. Take away the drugs from the Earth and the guys winning now will be winning then. Its just hard work, motivation, and dedication.
 
Arnold had a bricklaying company and often used Franco Columbo and others to finish jobs. He got into real estate early and then went on to billionaire status when he married the JAP ( Jewish American Prince ) who s momma snagged the progengeny of a rum running fuck during prohibition who went on to buy massive amounts of stock during the depression thereby legitimizing his fortune from gangster to "roylaty". aka the fkn Kennedy s.
 
Frank ZAAAAAAANE. I tell ya though, Tom Platz was a true freak. Look at Mike Mentzer, you really think that guy is any kind of Natty? I'm pretty damn sure Arnold is not natural either.
 
Honestly the dedication of most those guys combined with their genetics is insane. I don't think people realize how hard it really is to obtain a physique like frank zanes. I do not think it is possible to achieve the look he had naturally. Just when you look at the density of his muscle you can tell he was taking something. I've seen many people in great shape who are natural but nobody comes close to those guys from the golden era of arnolds time.

The thing is many of us will go all out for like 3 months to 6 months maybe even a year and we will eat every 2 hours and work out 5 times a week and never miss a meal and get our bodybuilding schedule down to perfection. But these guy's did that for like 10 years 15 years straight. And when you look at a champion training compared to the average guy their is a big difference. A average guy might think he is going all out and to him he is. But somebody like Dorian Yates going all out is something entirely different. Very few people will ever push past certain mental barriers. Basically what I am saying is 90 percent of people out their wouldn't even know if they were going all out. Or what the term truly means.

I know all those guys used steroids and they all had genetics that were near perfect in every aspect from joint and ligament construction to muscle insertion, mental mind set, and drug tolerance. So when you add up all those things it is maybe one out of 2 million that have the ability to achieve a body of even a lower rank guy from the golden era or today's pro scene.
 
jSalud said:
Frank Zane's nickname "the Chemist" comes from his use of vitamins and supplements not from AAS usage. There is a very high chance that he never used at all based on the availability of the drugs at his time. His physique can be attained naturally in my opinion.

Arnold on the other hand had no other obligations at the time. He had an apartment paid for by Jos Weider and a food/living allowance. His life on muscle beach consisted of eat, sleep, train and the occasional joint. Besides the way the workouts were arranged in that time were quite different from our "bro" splits.
Click to expand...


Totally agree. If I'm not mistaken, Kai was natural until he turned pro which I still find utterly hard to believe but I still want to in the back of my head
 
Mad- scientist said:
Honestly the dedication of most those guys combined with their genetics is insane. I don't think people realize how hard it really is to obtain a physique like frank zanes. I do not think it is possible to achieve the look he had naturally. Just when you look at the density of his muscle you can tell he was taking something. I've seen many people in great shape who are natural but nobody comes close to those guys from the golden era of arnolds time.

The thing is many of us will go all out for like 3 months to 6 months maybe even a year and we will eat every 2 hours and work out 5 times a week and never miss a meal and get our bodybuilding schedule down to perfection. But these guy's did that for like 10 years 15 years straight. And when you look at a champion training compared to the average guy their is a big difference. A average guy might think he is going all out and to him he is. But somebody like Dorian Yates going all out is something entirely different. Very few people will ever push past certain mental barriers. Basically what I am saying is 90 percent of people out their wouldn't even know if they were going all out. Or what the term truly means.

I know all those guys used steroids and they all had genetics that were near perfect in every aspect from joint and ligament construction to muscle insertion, mental mind set, and drug tolerance. So when you add up all those things it is maybe one out of 2 million that have the ability to achieve a body of even a lower rank guy from the golden era or today's pro scene.
Click to expand...

I say that all the time. You can do 8-12 reps, or 8-12 REPS!!!!!!! :vampire:
 
Frank Zane's size might be attainable natty, over years of training, but I highly doubt his conditioning would be achievable without AAS. I've read on a few forums about Zane doing long cycles of Primo and as I said before, Arnold doing long cycles of dbol.

When Dorian Yates came to my country beginning of the year, I asked him about AAS and HGH. He said that he has used both, but also at one stage insulin (he claims it's not worth the risk so he stayed away from it after one cycle). I guess that's when all the other compounds came in and the mass era was born.

I also understand that those guys really did work hard in the gym, but do the pros of today not do the same? The bodybuilders from the golden era had a more awe inspiring look about them (probably the thin midsection). Why do guys not focus on aesthetics anymore and more on mass? If someone were to show up with a body like Arnold to a bodybuilding show of today, do you guys think his physique would be enough for judges to overlook his lack of size compared to the pros of today?

I have no hate against the bodybuilders of today btw, I really admire their hard work and dedication. I just think that the golden era was more focused on the "greek god" body than nowadays, which is what bodybuilding should be.

I also understand that we can't all look as good as those guys with our different genetics, but you can always look the best with the genetics you do have and that's all you can hope for.
 
MM and OTG both made great points and Zane, Arnold and the mentzers were alway s my favorites.

And I agrree that it HAD to be a combo of all the above to attain their look.

I ll not disrespect the new breed of huge guys; but they do not look HUMAN to ME. Off season they are alarmingly bloated and well...unhealthy to me.

Again no direspect to them or anyone seeking THAT look.
 
I think the 90's era was my favorite. I really liked the look of flex wheeler, Kevin Levrone, Shawn ray, Nassar, And of course dorian. They all pushed the limits though honestly on conditioning they all went into a different level of being shredded. I think Phil Heath has a great physique though honestly. Same with Shawn Rhoden. Dennis wolf has a really interesting physique it is a hard core look he has. I like it a lot but it's not as pleasing to the eye as something like Phil Heath's look. Dennis wolf is more of a mix between a mass monster and a aesthetic guy.
 
Mad- scientist said:
I think the 90's era was my favorite. I really liked the look of flex wheeler, Kevin Levrone, Shawn ray, Nassar, And of course dorian. They all pushed the limits though honestly on conditioning they all went into a different level of being shredded. I think Phil Heath has a great physique though honestly. Same with Shawn Rhoden. Dennis wolf has a really interesting physique it is a hard core look he has. I like it a lot but it's not as pleasing to the eye as something like Phil Heath's look. Dennis wolf is more of a mix between a mass monster and a aesthetic guy.
Click to expand...

I still think Flex is one of the best bodybuilders to never win the olympia. But there's no denying the fact that Dorian did look better. He was more dedicated than Flex, even though Flex had the better genetics. Just goes to show that genetics can't beat hard work. Not denying the fact that Dorian had great genetics too, though.

I actually have Dorian's book and I am currently on his diet and program (altered to my needs of course) and I must say it's interesting. I get really good results from it. He really knew what he was doing. I am just using this to bulk however as I need some more size to work with. I am still going for the classic bodybuilder look.

I just hope that when I enter my first comp next year I'll be in good enough condition to beat the mass monsters. Although there wouldn't really be that much of a difference as it will be a novice show.

Another classic bodybuilder I admire is Franco Columbu. He had immense strength and size for his little frame. Don't even get me started on those pecs and lats. He, to me, was the mass monster of the golden era. He had a lot of size for his frame and didn't let much go in the aesthetic department.

I don't want to sound like a Kai fanatic, but I really admire the guy. And I do think he looked better than Phil. I won't comment on politics or anything, but Kai deserved the title. There's no denying he has the best back atm, which we all know is one of the crucial poses to nail in the posedown.
 
We are going a bit off topic though.

Why does everybody still think Arnold was the best bodybuilder ever? Was his physique really that good, if you compare it to the guys of today? Or was it more to do with what he did for the sport?
 
Honestly I really like Kai to. I think Phil has a more complete physique that flows better though basically because of genetics. But I guess Kai has over all the most developed muscles out of every one. Phil heath is very marketable honestly. Kai is almost to smart to a degree he doesn't just give answers to questions and peoples statements. He give's new mind sets to those people. Honestly some of his words have inspired me a great degree and made me who I am today physically, genetically and mentally. I don't think I would have ever been back on juice if it wasn't for him basically saying to just go after what you want.

I still do not know though how far I want to push bodybuilding. I enjoy working out and getting huge. But some of these guys with the drugs they take their really is no turning back after words and permanent damage is something that is unavoidable. I mean just the insulin dosages alone are scary as fuck. And the possibility of any cancer cells growing at a crazy rate when your taking 18 iu's of hgh a day. Not to mention taking anywhere from 4 to 8 grams of gear a week. I mean ive started to come to the realization that I can do big cycles and enjoy life a lot more and be a lot healthier if I don't compete. Not to mention make more money through some sort of business. My thing is if I compete it will take more maturity for me to do it for the love of the sport and not to win. Because if I do it to win I'll be taking dangerous amounts of all sorts of things. And it's hard not to get obsessed and realize its to late to turn back.
 
Arnold is considered the greatest because of what he did for the sport. He put bodybuilding on the front stage and made it so popular that EVERYONE wanted to be a bodybuilder at one point during his reign. Not only was he a champion but he also had the charisma that carried across to everything he did from Hollywood to politics. There hasn't been anyone as influential who has emerged from the bodybuilding scene and the way things are trending with bodybuilding today, no one ever will.
 
Arnold is a genius. He could have been anything he wanted honestly. He was very manipulative and cold and cunning. I mean he controlled bodybuilding with his mind he didn't win some of those contests with his physique. He actually pretty much made it so he had to win. And he tricked a lot of body builders to through out the ages and was pretty deceitful. I think Arnold was a self centered person who stepped on others to get what he wants and still is the same person today. It is sad but true. He has accomplished a lot of stuff. But honestly at what price. He pretty much fucked over every one who has been connected to him through out history.

He is a bodybuilding god obviously but at the end of the day their are more important things than being successful. And I think that Arnold's greed is finally catching up with him. I am just saying that some of the choices he has made through out history show his true colors and it's hard for me to respect him like I did when I was younger. Knowing what I know now about him.
 
Mad- scientist said:
Arnold is a genius. He could have been anything he wanted honestly. He was very manipulative and cold and cunning. I mean he controlled bodybuilding with his mind he didn't win some of those contests with his physique. He actually pretty much made it so he had to win. And he tricked a lot of body builders to through out the ages and was pretty deceitful. I think Arnold was a self centered person who stepped on others to get what he wants and still is the same person today. It is sad but true. He has accomplished a lot of stuff. But honestly at what price. He pretty much fucked over every one who has been connected to him through out history.

He is a bodybuilding god obviously but at the end of the day their are more important things than being successful. And I think that Arnold's greed is finally catching up with him. I am just saying that some of the choices he has made through out history show his true colors and it's hard for me to respect him like I did when I was younger. Knowing what I know now about him.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with you on that one. Unfortunately, in order to be on top there has to be tons of people who get stepped on. It is the way of the world we live in. Hell, even the founding of America was built on the wealth and blood of thousands of people.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

traviswyliedime
Then Versus Now: Anabolics & Adjuncts...good read
Replies
1
Views
2K
noobmuscle
noobmuscle
Drveejay11
YO......chicken legs..........!
Replies
9
Views
2K
Eze
E
Back
Top