Creatine on cycle? The truth please

[Mike Arnold]

Try upping your water intake and lowering the creatine dose to combat the hypertension.


You shouldn't take creatine nonstop for the rest of your life. Give your body a month off for every 2-3 months on minimum.

10+ year studies have been done with creatine, in which dozens of test subjects used large doses of creatine daily throughout the entire course of the study. No harm or signs of bodily stress were reported in any of the subjects. Creatine is not harmful. In fact, it provides both performance AND health benefits. There is no reason to go off creatine if one doesn't want to. Saying the body needs a break from creatine implies that is stresses or harms the body in some way--it does not. The body does not need a break from creatine any more than it needs a break from protein supplements. Both are 100% natural substances that the body not only needs, but produces on a daily basis. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that we need time off from creatine, but there is substantial evidence to suggest that we don't need time off. Personally, I haven't been off in almost 15 years. I have not experienced any adverse effects, which further confirms the long-term study results in which creatine was used for a similar period of time.

 

[DreDay187]

Ya that makes sense, I've been taking creatine post workout for like 10+ years off and on just for the simple fact that it made sense to me to supplement with it at this time. I was reading an article the other day that was basically talking about the best time for creatine consumption, and the long and short of it was there were groups of test subjects who all consumed creatine at different times during the day and also weight trained, and the group that consumed it post workout had the best gains in strength and muscle creatine levels as well as gains in muscle mass, this kind of interested me as I never actually had any reason for taking at this time. I guess though what your saying does make sense as well because doesn't creatine start to convert into creatinine after about 30 or so hours and start to leave the body?? So if taken daily levels should stay consistant enough to do what it is supposed to do??

Your muscles are powered by ATP (adenosine TRIphosphate). When you're doing heavy lifting for example you will deplete your ATP stores. As ATP gets used it loses a phosphate group and becomes ADP (adenosine DIphosphate). By supplementing with creatine you're basically elevating your phosphate stores so ADP can grap this phosphate molecule and convert back to ATP. This is how your muscular endurance is benefited with creatine.

Yes taken daily at around 3-5g, your muscles are saturated with creatine and holding as much as they can. Anymore than that will keep increasing performance. As to your article, I'd ask "was it a case of acute supplementation where they claimed taking it post workout benefited more or chronic supplementation once you reached saturation point"? My money would be on the former meaning if supplemented daily the timing becomes less important.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Sick!! Ya get on er bro, I tend to cycle on and off, as it will lose its effect after some time, once this happens just take a brief amount of time off and get back goin again man!

No offense, but creatine NEVER loses its effectiveness. Naturally, size & strength gains will fall off after a while, but this is not due to a decrease in effectiveness. The reason we notice bigger size & strength gains during the initial stages of use is because we are starting out with sub-par creatine stores. When we start taking creatine, we slowly begin to fill up our creatine stores over a several week period. As this happens, size & strength increases at an enhanced rate. Once creatine stores reach full capacity, there is nowhere else to go. The best the body can do at this point is maintain maximum creatine stores. We will still recieve all of creatine's benefits, such as increased muscular endurance, improved muscle fullness, enhanced anabolism, etc, but size & strength gains will revert back to a normal pace because creatine stores are already maxed out.

It is similar to blowing up a balloon with helium. As we begin to fill the balloon, it gets bigger and starts to float. The more helium we add, the bigger it gets, while continuing to float. Eventually, the balloon reaches a poiint where it can't hold any more helium. Once the ballon is at full capacity, there is nothing we can do to make it any bigger. The best we can do is keep it full of helium and it will continue to float. It is the same way with creatine. Creatine stores may reach full capacity, at which point further size gains cease, but the muscles never stop "floating", so to speak. In other words, even though creatine won't keep getting us bigger forever, it will continue to provide all of its benefits.

Going off of creatine will result in a decrease in muscular endurance and a loss of muscle fullness. Of course, once we start using creatine again we will "re-gain" the muscle fullness we lost, so in this sense it may appear to be "working" again, but it is not working any better than it ever did. All we are doing is blowing the baloon back up to the same size it was previously (re-filling creatine stores).

 

[Mike Arnold]

No problem, just make sure if your gonna run the Monohydrate you run a loading dose for a week to start then drop it down to 5g post workout. With the HCL there is no need for a loading phase you all you need is 5g post. Some people run 5 pre and 5 post, or even 5 pre, but there have been studies done and the most effective time is going to be post workout. Ive tried every way and post seems to be the best, and more isn't better, all your gonna need is 5g at a time brother.

You probably think I am picking on you, but this is not the case. I am sure you have amassed a large degree of knowledge in several areas related to BB'ing, but you are a bit off -base with this one.

There is no need for a loading phasd with ANY form of creatine...there never was. The "loading phase" was simply a way for the original sellers of creatine to make more money, as users would go through an entire container of creatine in less than a week and need a new one. Remember, when creatine first came out, it was sold as a combination product with dextrose. It cost as much as $70 for a mere 30 or so servings of creatine. It has now been well over 15 year since the loading phase has been debunked. In fact, science has shown that the loading phase can actually be detrimental to maximizing creatine stores. Studies have shown that when using just 5 grams of creatine daily for 30 days, creatine concentrations were actually higher in those subjects than they were in the subjects that loaded the first week, then followed that with a 5 gram "maintenance" phase for the remainder of the 30 day period (the difference was negligible, though). Numerous studies have been done since invalidating the necessity of a loading phase. Now, if someone wants to load, in order to experience the effects of creatine more rapidly, they can do so, but it certainly isn't needed.

 

[DreDay187]

I'll try and find some links when I get home for you. The gist is this:

Supplement companies say on the label to take creatine witha sugary juice as the carbs will help the creatine absorb faster. This is correct. They also recommend a loading phase of ~20g/day for a week or two (4 5gram servings typically). This is supposed to load your body faster which again is correct.

The issue is once you take 3-5g/day of creatine your muscles are saturated with creatine after around 3-4wks. All you're doing by doing the loading phase is SLIGHTLY speeding up the time it gets to reach the saturation point. IMO this means more money for the supplement companies. Personally I wait the 4wks and just do 5g daily...I never do the loading phase since it'll speed things up by a week or two.

The sugary drink thing is also a moot point bc once your body is saturated it doesn't matter how fast you absorb the creatine...you're already at a saturation point where you can no longer store anymore creatine.

Same thing goes for timing of creatine. Taking it before or immediately after a workout won't hinder hints but since you're always saturated the timing is less important than typically believed. All it takes is 3-5g a day of creatine for you to reach this saturation point also, there's no need to go more.

You probably think I am picking on you, but this is not the case. I am sure you have amassed a large degree of knowledge in several areas related to BB'ing, but you are a bit off -base with this one.

There is no need for a loading phasd with ANY form of creatine...there never was. The "loading phase" was simplya way for the original sellers of creatine to make more money, as users would go througha a entire container of creatin in less than a week and need a new one. Remember, when creatine first came out, it was sold as a combination product with dextrose. It cost as much as $70 for a mere 30 or so servings of creatine. It has now been well over 15 year since the loading phase has been debunked. In fact, science has shown that the loading phase can actually be detrimental to maximizing creatine stores. Studies have shown that when using just 5 grams of creatine daily for 30 days, creatine concentrations were actually higher in those subjects than they were in the subjects that loaded the first week, then reduced their dose down to a 5 gram "maintenance" phase for the remainder of the 30 days (the difference as negligible, though). Numerous studies have been done since invalidating the necessity of a loading phase. Now, if someone wants to load, in order to experience the effects of creatine more rapidly, they can do so, but it certainly isn't needed.

Thankfully I'm not the only one who sees this trickery lol

 

[Mike Arnold]

It absolutely does, the insulin spike you going to give yourself Post workout with your carbs is going to shuttle the creatine into your muscle better and faster, allowing for better recovery, and better utilization of the creatine. Non workout day take it in the AM upon wakening.

Agreed. The presence of insulin is critical for the optimal absorption of creatine into muscle tissue. In addition, the muscles more efficiently absorb nutrients after a workout, than at other times of the day. Personally I don't think it makes much of a difference when you take it, so long as you take it every day. Once your muscle are already saturated, it doesn't take much to maintain it.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I wanted to use creatine, but I dont want to put all that stress on my liver and kidneys. Feel's better to know i accomplished my goals naturally as well.

What? Are you serious? Please tell me this is a joke.

 

[Mike Arnold]

It gets absorbed either way at anytime. Insulin and post-workout optimizes absorption though(according to studies). All preference

Yes, it will absorb at any time, but more thoroughly in the presence of insulin during the post-training window.

 

[Southernfish]

You probably think I am picking on you, but this is not the case. I am sure you have amassed a large degree of knowledge in several areas related to BB'ing, but you are a bit off -base with this one.

There is no need for a loading phasd with ANY form of creatine...there never was. The "loading phase" was simply a way for the original sellers of creatine to make more money, as users would go through an entire container of creatine in less than a week and need a new one. Remember, when creatine first came out, it was sold as a combination product with dextrose. It cost as much as $70 for a mere 30 or so servings of creatine. It has now been well over 15 year since the loading phase has been debunked. In fact, science has shown that the loading phase can actually be detrimental to maximizing creatine stores. Studies have shown that when using just 5 grams of creatine daily for 30 days, creatine concentrations were actually higher in those subjects than they were in the subjects that loaded the first week, then followed that with a 5 gram "maintenance" phase for the remainder of the 30 day period (the difference was negligible, though). Numerous studies have been done since invalidating the necessity of a loading phase. Now, if someone wants to load, in order to experience the effects of creatine more rapidly, they can do so, but it certainly isn't needed.

No nobodies picking on anybody bro i dont take it like that at all, i have alot of knowledge yes, but im always learning new things everyday too, id be a fool to think i new everything, hah!! What you and Dre are saying makes perfect sense, thanks for the input, ive always wondered about the loading phase, and if i was to sit down and actually think logically about it, i would have realized that it doesnt make sense other than to speed up the full saturation point, i have long since stopped taking any type of mono, but that is how i always used to do it lol, i mean 10$ a tub id pay for mono so a few extra scoops at the beginning did really break me but, i see what you mean, and hey, i learned something, so its all good man.

 

[clman8585]

It doeant matter when you take your creatine

Damn bro nameth are you forrrreeaaall?

 

[Black Beard]

Of course, steroid work better, but creatine isn't steroids, GH, insulin, or any other PED. Creatine works to build muscle and promote recovery through completely different mechanisms than other PED's, so by using it along with other PED's, the BB'r will recieve benefits above and beyond what they get through PED's alone.

Refraining from creatine use simply because someone is already using steroids is no different than suggesting a steroid-user abstain from GH use because he is already using steroids. Obviously, steroids work much better than GH for building muscle mass & strength--there is really no comparison, but this doesn't mean that GH doesn't have a place. GH's benefits are unique and cannot be obtained from steroids, so its inclusion is well deserved. It is the same with creatine. Any drug-supplement that supplies benefits which cannot be obtained elsewhere, has a place ina BB'rs program.

Obviously! PSHHH