Cutting cycle on high BF%

[huxlin]

I'm at 25BF% (according to my foot scale, not sure how accurate those are) now and would love to get it down faster. 30 years, 5' 8.5", 187lbs. Lifting for more than 3 years on/off. Now getting back into it more seriously.

My diet (the most important part) is now excellent (after months of eating junk and gaining over 20 pounds). Eating a clean diet with a calorie deficit, high protein, moderate carbs, low fat. Stopped drinking booze. Nutrition guidance is appreciated. This has been my diet for two months now: 1700-2000 kcal depending on how much calories I spend. 50% protein, 25% carbs, 25% fat. Chicken, pork, lean red meat, tuna, salmon, low fat cottage cheese, skim milk, veggies, oats, brown rice, recovery drink, whey protein drink, 3 liters of water a day, creatine, animal pak, omega 3 caps, green tea caps, a cup of coffee and/or green tea/day.

I spend about 300-500 calories on cardio (P90X3) 6-7 times a week. Resistance training 4 times a week (Wendler's 5/3/1). I haven't checked what I spend at the gym.

I know high bf is bad because of increased change for sides, but wouldn't using an AI combat that? Another problem being overweight would be blood pressure, how dangerous would that be?

So any safe way to cycle something to keep muscle while cutting at such a high BF%? I was thinking of just doing the same thing I did for my first and only cycle couple of years ago (I think I was about 18 BF% back then):

Cycle
week 1 frontload Test E 1000mg
week 2-10 Test E 500mg/week
week 1-10 Arimidex .50mg EOD

PCT
Week 14 - 50mg Clomid & 40mg Nolvadex ED
Week 15 - 50mg Clomid & 40mg Nolvadex ED
Week 16 - 50mg Clomid & 20mg Nolvadex ED
Week 17 - 25mg Clomid & 20mg Nolvadex ED

The first time this cycle went fine. I did detect a small lump under my nipple and then started taking the AI. No problem there.

I posted this on another forum where Clen and Ephedrine were brought up. So I'm leaning towards one of those now, and saving the AAS cycle for later.

How does this look?

Banana for potassium
L-Taurine to combat cramps
Milk thistle for liver

All of these would be orals:
Day 1 - 20 Winny 50mg ED
Day 1 Clen 40mcg / T3 50mcg
Day 2 Clen 60mcg / T3 50mcg
Day 3 Clen 80mcg / T3 75mcg
Day 4 Clen 80mcg / T3 75mcg
Day 5 Clen 80mcg / T3 75mcg
Day 6 Clen 80mcg / T3 75mcg
Day 7 Clen 100mcg / T3 75mcg
Day 8 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day 9 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day10 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day11 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day12 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day13 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day14 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day15 Clen 100mcg / T3 100mcg
Day16 Clen 100mcg / T3 100mcg
Day17 Clen 100mcg / T3 100mcg
Day18 Clen 100mcg / T3 100mcg
Day19 Clen 100mcg / T3 100mcg
Day20 Clen 100mcg / T3 100mcg
Day21 Clen 100mcg / T3 100mcg
Day22 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day23 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day24 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day25 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day26 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day27 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day28 Clen off / T3 100mcg
Day29 Clen 100mcg / T3 75mcg
Day30 Clen 100mcg / T3 75mcg
Day31 Clen 100mcg / T3 75mcg
Day32 Clen 100mcg / T3 75mcg
Day33 Clen 100mcg / T3 75mcg
Day34 Clen 100mcg / T3 50mcg
Day35 Clen 100mcg / T3 50mcg
Day36 Clen off / T3 50mcg
Day37 Clen off / T3 50mcg
Day38 Clen off / T3 25mcg
Day39 Clen off / T3 25mcg
Day40 Clen off / T3 25mcg
Day41 Clen off / T3 25mcg
Day42 Clen off / T3 25mcg

PCT?

Or should I just do the ephedrine (eca stack) first:

Banana for potassium
Day 1 - test dose, take 100mg C 15mg E
Day 2-4 - 100mg C 15mg E, 2x
Day 5-7 - 200mg C 15mg E, 2x
Day 8-14 - 300mg C 30mg E first dose, 15mg E second dose
Day 14+ - 300mg C 30mg E, 2x

A total of 100x30mg pills

Maybe 100mg aspirin/day?

PCT?

And before anyone says it, yes I know diet and cardio are the most important things. I'm already doing those. Now I'm looking for something to get results a bit faster. Of course good nutrition and exercise tips are welcome.

 

[huxlin]

Another option: Going on cyclical ketogenic diet now (never done, have to look into it more) and starting test + aromasin cycle around April. So, keto + test for fat loss, opinions?

 

[huxlin]

OK, did some reading on it.
Made this guide for myself according to a good post about CKD on another forum. How does this look?

Sun - Fri
140 LBM x 4 = 560 calories from protein
187 pounds x 15 = 2805 maintain cals - 500 = 2305 cutting cals - 560 = 1745 cals from fat
Calories: 2305
Protein: 140 grams, 560 cals
Fat: 194 grams, 1745 cals
Carbs: max 15g
As you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.
Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days. After workouts, you will need to consume just protein***8212;no fat or carbs.
Friday afternoon, around two hours before your last workout of the week, eat two to three pieces of fruit.

The weekend carb load (Fri night - Sat midnight)
Your "carb-up" should begin Friday night and last until around midnight Saturday.
64kg LBM x 10 = 640 grams of carbs
After friday workout: 100g carbs + 50g protein in a whey shake. 640 - 100 = 540g
Spread out over the compensation period:
Protein: 140g
Fat: Below 65g
Carbs: 540g

Training (5/3/1)
Mon: Military Press + P90X3 Incinerator or Challenge
Tue: Deadlift + assistance exercises
Wed: Cardio
Thu: Bench + P90X3 Eccentric Upper or Complex Upper
Fri: Squat + assistance exercises
Sat/Sun: Rest/stretching

Heres what those P90X workouts entail:
Eccentric Upper:
All exercises: 10 reps; 3 counts eccentric, 1 count concentric
01 Standard Push-Ups
02 Standard Pull-Ups
03 Military Press
04 Military Push-Ups
05Chin-Ups
06 Deep Swimmer***8217;s Press
07Fly Push-Ups
08 V Pull-Ups
09 Upright Hammer Pull
10 Staggered
Push-Ups
(5 reps each side)
11 Rocket Launcher Row
12 Lateral/Anterior Raise
(12 reps)
13 Plyo Push-Ups
14 Vaulter Pull-Ups
(5 reps each side)
15 Pterodactyl Flys
16 Rocket Launcher
Kickback
17 Flip Flop Combo
18 Tricep Skyfers
(5 reps each side)
19 Kneeling Preacher Curl
BURNOUT

Complex Upper:
COMPLEX (4 rounds of 5 exercises)
R O U N D 1
01 Slow Mo Chin-Ups (12 reps)
02 X Plyo Push-Ups (8 reps)
03 Lunge Thrust Press (12 reps)
04 W Pull-Ups (12 reps)
05 Push-Up Bird
Dog Crunch (12 reps)
R O U N D 2
same
R O U N D 3
same
R O U N D 4
same
BURNOUT

Incinerator:
01 Renegade Row (10 reps)
02 Pull-Ups
03 Floor Flys
04 Push-Ups
05Rocket Launcher Row (10 reps)
06 Chin-Ups
07***8220;A***8221; Press (10 reps)
08 Military Push-Ups
09 Monkey Pump (8 reps)
10 Pike Press
11 Pterodactyl Flys (10 reps)
12 Flipper
13 Popeye Hammer Curls (10 reps)
14Kneeler Curls
15 Hail to the Chief (10 reps)
16 Skyfers
17 Arm and Hammer (10 reps)
18 Rocket Launcher Kickbacks
BURNOUT

The Challenge:
Pick a number for push-ups, another for pull-ups. Hit that number for every exercise.
01 Wide Pull-Up
02 Standard Push-Up
03 Wide Pull-Up
04 Standard Push-Up
05Chin-Up
06 Military Push-Up
07Chin-Up
08 Military Push-Up
09 Close Grip Pull-Up
10 Wide Push-Up
11 Close Grip Pull-Up
12 Wide Push-Up
13 Vaulter Pull-Up ***8211;
Right Hand Forward
14 Staggered Push-Up ***8211;
Right Hand Forward
15 Vaulter Pull-Up ***8211;
Left Hand Forward
16 Staggered Push-Up ***8211;
Left Hand Forward
BURNOUT

Start Test e + Aromasin cycle in April?

 

[Roush]

What's your current blood pressure? If it's already high it's gonna go higher on cycle (controlling e2 and water retention will help, but it's still going up)
Have you ever ran a cycle before?
Posting your diet plans in the diet section, where our local diet and nutrition expert 3j can look at it would be better then here.

 

[huxlin]

Ok, I'll check the diet section tomorrow.

I have ran one test e cycle before. I don't know what my BP is.

 

[Roush]

I do think you can run a cycle and cut with test .. You'll be able to stay anabolic while lowering calories and thus not loose a bunch of muscle mass (like what would probably happen cutting without gear)..

But your diet has to be spot on.

Get that blood pressure checked before starting anything IMO

 

[*49ER*]

I started pretty fat but had 7 years lifting before i used hormones. Tren ace low test will help tremendously along with your diet. I also used bronkaid with coffee ed just watch bp go for long walks at least an hour may take a few months but you will lose the fat if your consistent.

 

[Buzzbait]

You've put some thought in this, but whatever you decide, remember what you've already said, you have to be in a calorie deficit, no matter what "type" diet you run. I'm not to crazy about falling under 100g carbs PD, it fucks with my thinking and just fucking hungry. I cut to sub 10% with only TRT, and lost a ton of strength and size. All future cuts will be ran at a substantial amount of test to hold bulk gains. And last but certainly not least, don't half ass do it, kill that shit daily. Good luck

 

[ketogenicbulldog]

I'd say don't over complicate the diet. No need at 25%bf. Once your down trying to get the last few % off that's when you may need to play a little bit to find what works best for you.

Eat high protein and be in a deficit. I don't even start cardio until i'm around 10-12%. Let the diet do the work and train to keep your strength.

The severity of the deficit will depend on your cycle but I would at least get my bloodwork done first to know where i'm at and how everything is affecting me.

My 2 cents

 

[3J]

140g protein?? that ckd need help!! lol

 

[huxlin]

140g protein?? that ckd need help!! lol

g per pound of lean muschle mass is what was recommended. Can you give me better values?

 

[3J]

g per pound of lean muschle mass is what was recommended. Can you give me better values?

i responded to your post in my free diet advice section...

thats not how a ckd should be ran..

imo i would cut down to 15% and then cycle... at this bodyfat youre not even going to see weight loss because you will bloat.. likely get discouraged.. and lead to psychological diet failure..

be smart with your choices..

 

[huxlin]

wouldnt arimidex help with the bloat? and drinking lots of water and keeping carbs and salt low? I'm down to under 23bf now

how does this look:

Cycle
week 1 frontload Test Cyp 1000mg
week 2-9 Test Cyp 500mg/week (250mg 2x/wk)
week 1-9 Arimidex .50mg EOD
week 10-11 Arimidex .25mg EOD
week 6-11 Winny 50mg ED

PCT
Week 12 - 50mg Clomid
Week 13 - 50mg Clomid
Week 14 - 50mg Clomid
Week 15 - 25mg Clomid
Ghrp-6 during PCT and beyond

No Nolva available

2ml syringe, 1inch 25ga needle (pinning thigh)

 

[Megatron28]

Managing estradiol at higher body fat %'s is much more difficult. This can contribute to a lot of the bloating and problems 3J is referring to. Now, it isn't impossible to do it with higher BF%, but keep in mind that you don't have a lot of experience.

So, have you started cutting already? Personally, I would like to see you drop 10-15 pounds naturally before considering running a cycle. Consider it "proof of concept". If you restrict calories and carbs from your diet, I see no reason why you could not drop 10-15 pounds of fat in a month or two without any aids. I think this would give you a lot of momentum going into a cutting cycle and make it easier to manage side effects.

Let us know where your BP sits as others have said. Get a home monitor and start tracking it. There may be a few tricks if your BP is a little high.

I would encourage you to run some blood work to before starting.

And finally, those scales are known for being inaccurate for measuring body fat. You could get a scan done or ask a trainer to measure you with calipers at the gym. Another good option (and free) is to post a pic up here and we can take a look at it.

Good luck!

 

[huxlin]

Managing estradiol at higher body fat %'s is much more difficult. This can contribute to a lot of the bloating and problems 3J is referring to. Now, it isn't impossible to do it with higher BF%, but keep in mind that you don't have a lot of experience.

So, have you started cutting already? Personally, I would like to see you drop 10-15 pounds naturally before considering running a cycle. Consider it "proof of concept". If you restrict calories and carbs from your diet, I see no reason why you could not drop 10-15 pounds of fat in a month or two without any aids. I think this would give you a lot of momentum going into a cutting cycle and make it easier to manage side effects.

Let us know where your BP sits as others have said. Get a home monitor and start tracking it. There may be a few tricks if your BP is a little high.

I would encourage you to run some blood work to before starting.

And finally, those scales are known for being inaccurate for measuring body fat. You could get a scan done or ask a trainer to measure you with calipers at the gym. Another good option (and free) is to post a pic up here and we can take a look at it.

Good luck!

Thanks for the input!

I've dropped 13 pounds since new years.
I'm getting a scan done tomorrow.
I don't know what I could say to a doctor to get me checked without suspicions of steroid use...

 

[Megatron28]

Look below at my signature. The answer to blood work was staring right at you the whole time.

Read the Ology FAQ's sticky thread for more info getting blood work done.

 

[huxlin]

Look below at my signature. The answer to blood work was staring right at you the whole time.

Read the Ology FAQ's sticky thread for more info getting blood work done.

I'm in Europe

So hows this?

Training
Lifting 4 times a week, doing sports 2-3 times a week, 40min walk a few times a week.

Diet
2100 cals
Carbs 25% 131.0 g
Fat 25% 58.0 g
Protein 50% 263.0 g

Cycle
week 1 frontload Test Cyp 1000mg
week 2-9 Test Cyp 500mg/week (250mg 2x/wk)
week 1-9 Arimidex .50mg EOD
week 10-11 Arimidex .25mg EOD
week 6-11 Winny 50mg ED

PCT
Week 12 - 50mg Clomid
Week 13 - 50mg Clomid
Week 14 - 50mg Clomid
Week 15 - 25mg Clomid
Ghrp-6 or Clen? during PCT and beyond

No Nolva available. Is Clomid only ok?

2ml syringe, 1inch 25ga needle (pinning thigh)

 

[huxlin]

So I'm ordering this stuff this week. Any last recommendations before I do that?
Scan showed 23.3 BF

 

[Megatron28]

You are missing things and doing things wrong
you need to read the Ology FAQs thread.

 

[huxlin]

You are missing things and doing things wrong
you need to read the Ology FAQs thread.

What am I missing and doing wrong? Except for blood works, but i don't really see a way to do it. I'll check the faq
I thought you cant go wrong with a simple test cycle, thats what was recommended before to beginners

Edit: This is what you mean? steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/675497-ology-frequently-asked-questions.html

I read it and don't see any problems, except for not having nolva but many say clomid only works ok... what do you mean exactly?