Dbol/Test E first cycle plans. Advice?

[Johnny Tsunami]

Hello all. I have been natty my whole life until now! I plan to do a cycle because I am at an unbreakable plateau. I am 5'8 and 195lbs. I started at 135lbs. as I am a natural ectomorph. Maybe an ecto-meso because I do put on muscle fast although I am naturally very skinny.

Posted so pics from my bulking journey, Before, mid, now. All I took was creatine, protein, bcaa, and argenine pre workout.

First Cycle Plan:
Dbol week 1-5 30/40/40/40/50
Test E week 1-12 500mg/wk
Epistane 30mg week 11-14
adex .5mg eod week 1-5, .25mg eod week 6-11
HCG 250iu 2x week week 7-14

PCT:
Clomid week 15-19 50/50/50/25/25
Nolva week 15-18 40/20/20/10
DAA powder
Tribulus
Tongkat Ali
Creatine Monohydrate

have cycle support and milk thistle for support
also have Caber on stanby. What do yall think about using caber in pct? will it help?

Open to any suggestions. I mostly confused about hcg dosing. I have 5,000iu total. Curious about best dosing protocol to help me bounce back in pct.

 

[tbonexl]

Run adex and hcg from beginning of cycle till pct...

 

[tbonexl]

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...ycling-beginners-guide-safe-androgen-use.html

 

[Johnny Tsunami]

steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/664646-cycling-beginners-guide-safe-androgen-use.html

I actually read that before! Good stuff. Helpful. The 1,000iu a day for the last 10 days of the cycle sounds a little weird though. I think the last two weeks of the cycle I will just dose the hcg 250iu eod

 

[Johnny Tsunami]

Run adex and hcg from beginning of cycle till pct...

so even with the epistane (havoc) still run adex at .25mg eod?

I do plan to run .5mg adex eod while on dbol and drop it down to .25mg eod when on test.
Also during pct I plan to start the adex 2 weeks before the serms end and ramp up as the serms end, then ramp down to get off.

 

[Johnny Tsunami]

If I don't use the caber on cycle can I use it in pct for the benefits (sexul, ect.)

 

[jozifp103]

damn bro, you bulked the F up! nice natty work puttin on mass.

Quite honestly though, you don't need all those compounds on your first cycle, nor should you run all of them. 400-600mg of test with a good diet will get you great results. Save the others for future cycles. The reasoning behind that is if you get a bad side effect, you won't know which compound is causing it. Better to assess your tolerance of one compound then add others and see how they treat you.

***forgot to ask how old you were.

 

[Johnny Tsunami]

damn bro, you bulked the F up! nice natty work puttin on mass.

Quite honestly though, you don't need all those compounds on your first cycle, nor should you run all of them. 400-600mg of test with a good diet will get you great results. Save the others for future cycles. The reasoning behind that is if you get a bad side effect, you won't know which compound is causing it. Better to assess your tolerance of one compound then add others and see how they treat you.

Thank you I appreciate the advice. I was super dedicated for that bulk. It took me 1.5 years. I trained 5 days a week no matter what. If I got sick I counted it as a rest day then worked out on the weekend. I had my diet down pat as I am a nutrition major. I was always carb loaded. Was in about a 500 calorie surplus each week. I got about 1g of protein per pound of body weight per day. Now I am carbing down to regain insulin sensitivity and stepping up the protein. I feel for my body type the carb loading combined with the creatine really forced some growth. The full glycogen stores sucked in a lot of water as well as the creatine. Therefore my muscle cell membranes were stretched by water and that stimulates protein synthesis in the muscle cell hence, growth. I cycled the creatine 3 months on 1 month off and like clockwork every time I got on it I gained at least 5 lbs. and kept it!

 

[tbonexl]

Why do u have caber for this cycle? Look, start your hcg with your test. You can pin them both at the same time. Start your ai then too. Continue hcg and ai after your last test pin but stop both before pct. Start your pct 18-21 days after last shot of test. The only things you should be taking in pct is nolvadex and clomid. Nothing else.
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 50/50/50/50

Do pct for 4 weeks. Each one of those dashes equals a week. Ok?

 

[jozifp103]

Thank you I appreciate the advice. I was super dedicated for that bulk. It took me 1.5 years. I trained 5 days a week no matter what. If I got sick I counted it as a rest day then worked out on the weekend. I had my diet down pat as I am a nutrition major. I was always carb loaded. Was in about a 500 calorie surplus each week. I got about 1g of protein per pound of body weight per day. Now I am carbing down to regain insulin sensitivity and stepping up the protein. I feel for my body type the carb loading combined with the creatine really forced some growth. The full glycogen stores sucked in a lot of water as well as the creatine. Therefore my muscle cell membranes were stretched by water and that stimulates protein synthesis in the muscle cell hence, growth. I cycled the creatine 3 months on 1 month off and like clockwork every time I got on it I gained at least 5 lbs. and kept it!

you seem to have a good grip on diet and how you respond to things. the most important question here is how old are you

 

[Johnny Tsunami]

Why do u have caber for this cycle? Look, start your hcg with your test. You can pin them both at the same time. Start your ai then too. Continue hcg and ai after your last test pin but stop both before pct. Start your pct 18-21 days after last shot of test. The only things you should be taking in pct is nolvadex and clomid. Nothing else.
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 50/50/50/50

Do pct for 4 weeks. Each one of those dashes equals a week. Ok?

ok sounds good
I want more of a taper down for pct. cutting myself off of 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva the same day I'd be worried about rebound. How about extending clomid an extra week at 25mg. or nolva an extra week at 10mg?

 

[Johnny Tsunami]

you seem to have a good grip on diet and how you respond to things. the most important question here is how old are you

I'm 26. Been lifting since I was 16 but quit at age 22 due to personal problems and started back up at 24.

 

[jozifp103]

ok sounds good
I want more of a taper down for pct. cutting myself off of 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva the same day I'd be worried about rebound. How about extending clomid an extra week at 25mg. or nolva an extra week at 10mg?

it never hurts to extend pct, but the method provided is tried and true. Shouldn't have to worry about rebound if your e2 was controlled on cycle.

 

[Johnny Tsunami]

it never hurts to extend pct, but the method provided is tried and true. Shouldn't have to worry about rebound if your e2 was controlled on cycle.

ok nice thank you. I know im prone to gyno because during puberty my nipples hurt me a lot. I do have tiny little bumps behind my nipples to this day. It feels like an erasor in there. So I want to be careful. I think I'll taper nolva to 10mg and clomid to 25mg

 

[tbonexl]

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...tia-if-youre-asking-question-read-thread.html

 

[jozifp103]

ok nice thank you. I know im prone to gyno because during puberty my nipples hurt me a lot. I do have tiny little bumps behind my nipples to this day. It feels like an erasor in there. So I want to be careful. I think I'll taper nolva to 10mg and clomid to 25mg

If you know you're prone to gyno, running nolva during your cycle will block the e2 receptors in your breast tissue which will combat gyno. It would be a smart preventative measure.

 

[Johnny Tsunami]

If you know you're prone to gyno, running nolva during your cycle will block the e2 receptors in your breast tissue which will combat gyno. It would be a smart preventative measure.

well of course I'll have it on hand for that. I don't think I'm THAT prone to gyno though so I will start with .5mg adex eod. Than if gyno still flares up I will hit it with nolva for as long as I'm on the dbol and go back to adex for the test.

 

[3J]

it looks like all your ducks are in a row except the cycle..

you need to run test alone for your first cycle

 

[Bigboss12]

you put on 60 lbs in a year and a half natty. that is impressive. i agree with the above that the first cycle should be test only. you will see great results with just that.

 

[Johnny Tsunami]

you put on 60 lbs in a year and a half natty. that is impressive. i agree with the above that the first cycle should be test only. you will see great results with just that.

yeah but I had some muscle memory. Before I quit working out for 2 years I was 170lbs. lean. Then after a 2 year break I came back at 135 but gained weight rapidly. The gains didn't slow down until about 180.

I kind of have my heart set on dbol though. maybe a lower dose? I feel like my test levels are through the roof naturally, my libido drives me crazy, so synthetic test is not too appealing to me.