Shovel
Community Veteran
That's exactly the dosages I'll do. Starting with ace/mast/prop(100/100/100 eod) as a kicker for 4 or 5 weeks.
does letro hinder gains ...yes or no??
- Thread starter toxic108
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That's exactly the dosages I'll do. Starting with ace/mast/prop(100/100/100 eod) as a kicker for 4 or 5 weeks.
Its been an intresting read this thread.
I have to agree with Det oak going off personal experience.
Letro in small doses aint that bad for you at all. Its the only Aromatase inhibitor (AI) what seems to do anything for me out the ones i have tried aswell, quarter of a pill every 2 days is very unlikely going to crash your estrogen and lean gains will still come.
Again from personal experience if your estrogen is too high your going to pack alot of weight on but alot of it will actually be water and not muscle, as for you need estrogen to build muscle as said above if that was the case woman would be build like men, i don't think you need alot of estrogen at all to build muscle.
If im wrong then im wrong, but thats what i beleive.
I have to agree with Det oak going off personal experience.
Letro in small doses aint that bad for you at all. Its the only Aromatase inhibitor (AI) what seems to do anything for me out the ones i have tried aswell, quarter of a pill every 2 days is very unlikely going to crash your estrogen and lean gains will still come.
Again from personal experience if your estrogen is too high your going to pack alot of weight on but alot of it will actually be water and not muscle, as for you need estrogen to build muscle as said above if that was the case woman would be build like men, i don't think you need alot of estrogen at all to build muscle.
If im wrong then im wrong, but thats what i beleive.
DADAWG
Community Veteran
i do NOT know how low letro will crash estrogen in a lab but i do know that lowering estrogen CAN inhibit gains indirectly. dont get me wrong its important to keep estrogen low enough to not get gyno and to control blood pressure from bloat but anyone who has been around for a long time / before all thes fancy anti estrogens were even available to our community we bloated up pretty bad and we also got TEMPORARY strength gains form that bloat . strenght went up quick with the extra size that the bloat added and YES i know the bloat will leave after the cycle BUT COMMA there is NOTHING and i mean NOTHING that adds size more than lifting HEAVY and back in those days we would bloat up and lift balls to the walls with heavier and heavier weight.
powerlifter may not be symetric or what you want to look like but look at a fairly advanced powerlifter and look at the muscle density and how freaking thick he is and you know that lifting heavy adds mass. btw ronnie coleman powerlifted and so did several other top level bodybuilders some guy named dorian was supposed to love the heavy steel
powerlifter may not be symetric or what you want to look like but look at a fairly advanced powerlifter and look at the muscle density and how freaking thick he is and you know that lifting heavy adds mass. btw ronnie coleman powerlifted and so did several other top level bodybuilders some guy named dorian was supposed to love the heavy steel
DADAWG
Community Veteran
btw i still choose aromasin over letro due to its rep for being the best on cholesterol levels , at least until someone proves that wrong.
and MAD MAD respect for det oak he kicks ass , this is just a case where a seasoned ol bastard goes by personnal experine over lab results . sometimes its ok to agree to disagree.
and MAD MAD respect for det oak he kicks ass , this is just a case where a seasoned ol bastard goes by personnal experine over lab results . sometimes its ok to agree to disagree.
China_Wall
New member
i'm not a fan of letro, aromasin or arimidex are my choices for ai's... letro really has no place in bodybuilding in my mind, but that's just my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own...
letro detroys estrogen to an almost non-existant level.. and it's very hard to control what it does even by varying dosages. If someone is considering using letro just to control estro levels while on cycle this is a not the right path to be going down... if they think it will eliminate pre-existing gyno... it WON'T, only surgery will do that...
bodybuilding is best kept simple... build your muscle through eating, lifting big weights, resting enough and taking moderate amount of aas's...
letro detroys estrogen to an almost non-existant level.. and it's very hard to control what it does even by varying dosages. If someone is considering using letro just to control estro levels while on cycle this is a not the right path to be going down... if they think it will eliminate pre-existing gyno... it WON'T, only surgery will do that...
bodybuilding is best kept simple... build your muscle through eating, lifting big weights, resting enough and taking moderate amount of aas's...
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
Thanks for the love DAWG 
I was actually waiting for someone to say this, cause this is the only way AI's can inhibit gains. the water does make me strong, the strongest I have ever been was on a 1.5 gram test 800 deca and 150 drol.
I dont do dosages like that anymore cause the sides just didnt outweight the benefits in my situation.
for a powerlifter, or even a BB that is trying to add as much as he can, going without an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is his best bet, simply for the strength and joint support all that water will provide. doe i think it makes a huge difference, no, but in that situation every ounce counts.
If we look at what most of the guys here are doing it for though, its to look good.
Trust me when i say a gram of test with no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will make you look like the michelin man, for most of that is, this doesnt count you lucky non aromatizing bastards.
So for the guy doing it to look good, that extra 15 lbs on bench, is just not that important, and overall gains when off cycle would prolly be really close.
China Wall
trust me when i say letro will NOT erase your estrogen, that is a rumor. Yes its easier to crash it with letro, but the dose i mentioned will barely touch E.
Ive taken 1.25mg EOD with no issues, and all i was on was like 700 test.
Obviously there is no reason to start with letro if you have other choices, but if its all you can get a low dose like like 1/4 pill 2x a week will be fine, even on only 500mg test.
Like i mentioned earlier, the letro dropping E 99% comes from a study on women, were they doing like 5mg ED. at 2.5mg, in men, keep in mind these men were not on AAS, 2.5mg dropped their E like 60 some percent.
AI's are like anything else, sides are dose dependent.
if you guys look at these studies on men giving the percentages of how much your E drops, look at the dosages their taking, its AT LEAST 1 pill ed.
There is even a study on adex where they administered 10mg ED and it STILL didnt erase their E.
this will always be a personal preference thing, as it should be, but i caution those that dont use just a lil Aromatase inhibitor (AI), E levels have been shown to get up to 10x normal on cycle, and estrogen is VERY bad for organs, it messes up immune system i could go on and on, bottomline, estrogen is the devil, dance at your own risk
I was actually waiting for someone to say this, cause this is the only way AI's can inhibit gains. the water does make me strong, the strongest I have ever been was on a 1.5 gram test 800 deca and 150 drol.
I dont do dosages like that anymore cause the sides just didnt outweight the benefits in my situation.
for a powerlifter, or even a BB that is trying to add as much as he can, going without an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is his best bet, simply for the strength and joint support all that water will provide. doe i think it makes a huge difference, no, but in that situation every ounce counts.
If we look at what most of the guys here are doing it for though, its to look good.
Trust me when i say a gram of test with no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will make you look like the michelin man, for most of that is, this doesnt count you lucky non aromatizing bastards.
So for the guy doing it to look good, that extra 15 lbs on bench, is just not that important, and overall gains when off cycle would prolly be really close.
China Wall
trust me when i say letro will NOT erase your estrogen, that is a rumor. Yes its easier to crash it with letro, but the dose i mentioned will barely touch E.
Ive taken 1.25mg EOD with no issues, and all i was on was like 700 test.
Obviously there is no reason to start with letro if you have other choices, but if its all you can get a low dose like like 1/4 pill 2x a week will be fine, even on only 500mg test.
Like i mentioned earlier, the letro dropping E 99% comes from a study on women, were they doing like 5mg ED. at 2.5mg, in men, keep in mind these men were not on AAS, 2.5mg dropped their E like 60 some percent.
AI's are like anything else, sides are dose dependent.
if you guys look at these studies on men giving the percentages of how much your E drops, look at the dosages their taking, its AT LEAST 1 pill ed.
There is even a study on adex where they administered 10mg ED and it STILL didnt erase their E.
this will always be a personal preference thing, as it should be, but i caution those that dont use just a lil Aromatase inhibitor (AI), E levels have been shown to get up to 10x normal on cycle, and estrogen is VERY bad for organs, it messes up immune system i could go on and on, bottomline, estrogen is the devil, dance at your own risk
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
That's exactly the dosages I'll do. Starting with ace/mast/prop(100/100/100 eod) as a kicker for 4 or 5 weeks.
Ive seen your pics Shovel, you look great.
If yo dont mind i would like to suggest a slight difference for your kick start.
my sweetspot with those compounds is
.7ml test
1.3ml trem
1ml masteron
for some reason that little difference gives me more energy and stamina.
anyone else pace when their on tren? i do I cant sit still, especially if my tren is higher that the T.
would love to hear and experienced guy like yourself comment on running tren higher than test, looking forward to it.
Shovel
Community Veteran
Definately ok to disagree here, just be open-minded about everything peeps!
Thanks for the love DAWG
I was actually waiting for someone to say this, cause this is the only way AI's can inhibit gains. the water does make me strong, the strongest I have ever been was on a 1.5 gram test 800 deca and 150 drol.
I dont do dosages like that anymore cause the sides just didnt outweight the benefits in my situation.
for a powerlifter, or even a BB that is trying to add as much as he can, going without an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is his best bet, simply for the strength and joint support all that water will provide. doe i think it makes a huge difference, no, but in that situation every ounce counts.
If we look at what most of the guys here are doing it for though, its to look good.
Trust me when i say a gram of test with no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will make you look like the michelin man, for most of that is, this doesnt count you lucky non aromatizing bastards.
So for the guy doing it to look good, that extra 15 lbs on bench, is just not that important, and overall gains when off cycle would prolly be really close.
China Wall
trust me when i say letro will NOT erase your estrogen, that is a rumor. Yes its easier to crash it with letro, but the dose i mentioned will barely touch E.
Ive taken 1.25mg EOD with no issues, and all i was on was like 700 test.
Obviously there is no reason to start with letro if you have other choices, but if its all you can get a low dose like like 1/4 pill 2x a week will be fine, even on only 500mg test.
Like i mentioned earlier, the letro dropping E 99% comes from a study on women, were they doing like 5mg ED. at 2.5mg, in men, keep in mind these men were not on AAS, 2.5mg dropped their E like 60 some percent.
AI's are like anything else, sides are dose dependent.
if you guys look at these studies on men giving the percentages of how much your E drops, look at the dosages their taking, its AT LEAST 1 pill ed.
There is even a study on adex where they administered 10mg ED and it STILL didnt erase their E.
this will always be a personal preference thing, as it should be, but i caution those that dont use just a lil Aromatase inhibitor (AI), E levels have been shown to get up to 10x normal on cycle, and estrogen is VERY bad for organs, it messes up immune system i could go on and on, bottomline, estrogen is the devil, dance at your own risk
I call the water weight "hydraulics". Lol
I'll make a log here and AE. Definately.
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