E2 control for TRT...............

[Alpin]

Yep I seem to be one of those people that just don't respond to adex, keep in mind 1mg ED wasn't working on 250mg E7D (suspicions of under dosed stuff though even though it was pharma), I'm now on that split up twice a week but going to lower it to 200mg a week as I know 250mg is quite high.

When I first started out at 250mg E7D I was using adex at .5mg EOD (different pharma brand) was working allright at the time but e2 may still have been climbing, it's a bit all over the place like I said trying to dial it all in. Test is quite high though so obviously lowering it to something more appropriate will help this.

.5mg ED I have only just started yesterday so will see where it puts me at in 2 weeks with blood test in terms of test/e2.

Some peole just respond differntly to AI's, some need very little adex to crash and some need a lot, stane can easily dump my e2 but for others not so much. Just a case of YMMV.

I notice zen like calmness when leaving my E2 alone with just plain old TRT...
I only use the ADEX cause I include HCG at 1 gram a week.
I always keep reserves going....
I'm about 482 ng/dl TT when running a HCG restart protocol 1500 iu/week..
I don't want to lose that base T by keeping my leydigs sleeping.
I noticed nasty anxiety when ruining ADEX EOD when first hoping on TRT....
maybe I didn't allow time for the E2 to get high and kept suppressing it....
who knows...
backed off ADEX and took it E4D and anxirty subsided....

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Yep it's all about keeping things in the sweet spot for you, right now I know my e2 is quite high (my two litel gyno lumps occasionlly give a spark pain, ED, well-being has dropped a little and fatigue is setting in all common of low e2 but I can discern it with the joint pain and the big one is I feel like absolute shit house with low e2/gives me solid anxiety) as I let it bounce back up after going to low with stane, went up through the sweetspot of e2 level and over which is where I am now, hopefully I should be down into that sweet spot at .5mg ED of adex. Again, I gotta drop my test dose though.

 

[Alpin]

got any nolva ? that will deal with the lumps?
never used raloxifene...
nolva is apparently linked to uterine or bladder cancer...

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Ralox is supposed to be 10x stronger as an antagonist in breast tissue, doesn't affect IGF-1 like Nolva does (I found a study saying it was something like a 16% reduction) and has less reported sides in the studies done on it compared to nolva. Plus it doesn't have the interaction with adex like nolva does.

Going to see my doc if he is willing to prescribe me some ralox so I can deal with the lumps, otherwise I will just get it from AR-R.

 

[Alpin]

ADEX has interactions with Nolva?
Whats a good dose to take of ralox without taking too much ?
thing is with drugs like these...they are pretty much use at your own risk. Nothing has been studied long term with them in use for men.
I have a couple tiny lumps...adex aint allowing them to get worse though. Which is a good thing.
Cut off that nasty food supply of E2....lol
Problem is not many Endo's are even willing to write script for AI....
I know a few endos that pay no attention to E2 at all....
just horrible!!!

 

[STAUNCHED427]

According to Austinite's thread Do I have Gynecomastia? If you're asking this question, read this thread.

TO REVERSE GYNECOMASTIA WITH SERMS:

Raloxifene: 60mg daily for 10 days, then 30mg daily until reversed. You should see improvement in approx. 4 to 6 weeks. If you choose to run 60 mg daily until it's gone, do not exceed 60 days.

Tamoxifen: 40mg daily for one week. Then 20mg daily until gynecomastia is reversed.

Would rather run some Raloxifene than old school method of letro though!

 

[Alpin]

I'm thinking DIM won't do much if HCG is included in a TRT protocol....
And any Endo who says managing E2 is not important during TRT is not mindful of the adverse effects of elevated E2 ?
I've met quite a few Endo's who attempt to spook you off the "off label" Adex with scare lines like: "we don't know the long term effects of it"...e.t.c.
What about the long term effects of elevated E2 ?
Docs play it safe at the expense of the patient it seems.
You guys agree ?

 

[jasil]

Ya'll are some some sensitive guys or really over think this. I feel the same at 800 or 1400ng/dl and I feel the same if my E is 25 or 85ng/dl.

I just know that it's better for my body if the ranges are tighter, but as far as feeling no difference. When it comes to libido neither feels any different.

For Sex Viagra works like clockwork I could go screw a wall.

 

[Alpin]

Just posted this on another thread, compliments to Austinite.

"Natural Over The Counter AI's:

- DIM (Diindolylmethane) - I use this with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), very effective.
- Resveratrol (pretty weak)
- Chrysin (better than Resveratrol, but still weak)
- Zinc (Decent, but an effective dose is also not healthy)

In my experience, it's always been proven (through blood work) that DIM is the most effective natural OTC product available today. Coupled with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), it can do some good for you. My testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol is now managed so well, that I don't even use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), I use DIM solely. Works perfect for me. "

You are on TRT now ?
As of when ?

 

[Virginian]

VIRGINIAN:

Hope u are controlling RBC's and donating blood ?

I have donated blood once and plan to do it again as soon as I am eligible. My hemocrit went from 44.5 pre-TRT to 49. So I went to donate blood.

My next lab tests will be just after my second blood draw.

 

[Alpin]

I have donated blood once and plan to do it again as soon as I am eligible. My hemocrit went from 44.5 pre-TRT to 49. So I went to donate blood.

My next lab tests will be just after my second blood draw.

That's getting up there!
Try to stay at 46% HCT if u can.
Reduce your dose bro!!

 

[Virginian]

That's getting up there!
Try to stay at 46% HCT if u can.
Reduce your dose bro!!

I think you are right. I will reduce dose by 10 % and see how I feel.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

That's getting up there!
Try to stay at 46% HCT if u can.
Reduce your dose bro!!

Agreed

 

[Alpin]

I think you are right. I will reduce dose by 10 % and see how I feel.

I reduced mine as well bro....
No reason I should be at 1270 Trough....lol
Looked under my eyes today and blood is getting that deep red colour again....
It's pale for up to a week after blood donation, then things start to kick in again.
It's been 3 weeks since last donation.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Seems like .5mg Adex EOD with 2x weekly injects is a little too much as I feel that low e2 feeling comming on the past few days and espeically right now. 1mg Adex on E7D injects didn't cut it, thankgod I was hoping I wasn't an adex non-responder!

 

[Alpin]

Seems like .5mg Adex EOD with 2x weekly injects is a little too much as I feel that low e2 feeling comming on the past few days and espeically right now. 1mg Adex on E7D injects didn't cut it, thankgod I was hoping I wasn't an adex non-responder!

You're right....
personally taking too much adex makes me feel messed up.
I don't mind E2 going up to 42 pg/ml....
If I drive E2 down too low I get anxiety.
0.125 mg EOD is what I run....I can switch to E3D if need be...
I find too much rebound with E4D dosing...but no anxiety increase...which is good!

 

[STAUNCHED427]

I feel a lot better with e2 being a little higher than a little lower, no anxiety whatsoever with super high e2 but when I go to low I always get anxiety/completely numbed mood... Probably the only good thing about that is atleast I am able to discern too high or too low!

Yeah I was thinking I might just stick to .5mg adex every E3.5D taken 12 hours after injection, I don't really want to go any more in terms of spacing the frequency, .25mg EOD is another option but a pain in the ass to cut the pills in quarters plus I get weary of the drug itself being not distributed evenly across the tab. Plus, half a tab 12 hours after every inject is just easier. Any input on whether taking it 24 hours post injection would be better than 12?

Will keep updated how this works for me and will be getting blood tests to confirm in a few weeks with .5mg 12hrs post injects.

 

[Alpin]

I feel a lot better with e2 being a little higher than a little lower, no anxiety whatsoever with super high e2 but when I go to low I always get anxiety/completely numbed mood... Probably the only good thing about that is atleast I am able to discern too high or too low!

Same here. Couldn't say it better myself.
Don't overthink it. Just get a pill cutter (make sure the blade is straight) and cut those ADEX pills into 4's.
It's not hard and can be done....it takes a few minutes but worth the time....imo!
You can then adjust from there. Personally I feel a half tab is way too much....
I run 500 iu. E3D of HCG as well in my protocol.

B.t.w. what is "super high E2" for you ?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Yeah I usually use a sharp knife but will get a pill cutter or even a razor blade will suffice.

I currently don't run any hCG, but will be looking into it in the future, just one thing at a time for now, trying to tackle this gyno with some Ralox that flared up as well with a CLomid restart, yes Clomid did give me gyno (see my log if interested in the reversal).

Super high e2 (highest my e2 came back was 210pmol ref range upto 150, no signs of gyno and felt allright at that level. so super high would be anywhere a lot over that) for me is to the point of constantly erect nipples that are sensitive/sting a little, feeling a bit emotional over little things at times, sex drive is still there but I feel all round still good but a little lethargic. The well-being obviously isn't as good as it is when my 2 is in the sweet spot, but I feel far, far better with elevated e2 than lowered e2.

 

[Alpin]

Yeah I usually use a sharp knife but will get a pill cutter or even a razor blade will suffice.

I currently don't run any hCG, but will be looking into it in the future, just one thing at a time for now, trying to tackle this gyno with some Ralox that flared up as well with a CLomid restart, yes Clomid did give me gyno (see my log if interested in the reversal).

Super high e2 (highest my e2 came back was 210pmol ref range upto 150, no signs of gyno and felt allright at that level. so super high would be anywhere a lot over that) for me is to the point of constantly erect nipples that are sensitive/sting a little, feeling a bit emotional over little things at times, sex drive is still there but I feel all round still good but a little lethargic. The well-being obviously isn't as good as it is when my 2 is in the sweet spot, but I feel far, far better with elevated e2 than lowered e2.

I cycled with 750 mg/week when I was younger(mind you I was leaner by 30 pounds) but none the less....
never had the typical symptoms of high E2 like super high BP, e.t.c.
had some water retention,and some days when I felt down, but I was also in a super stressful job at the time...