Eat real food? No protein shake.
- Thread starter MJF
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cybrsage
New member
It is currently $1.88 a pound, though I am sure that varies based on location. Last time I was there I was told to ask for a crate of them and it would be cheaper - and easier to transport since Sam's Club does not bag your stuff. I also own a small deep freezer, so it makes it very easy for me to store the chicken - I can store 160 pounds of chicken breast and still have room for the wife's frozen butter collection...
MJF
WWPBBD
On the chicken. I was at a point I didn't like chicken any longer. My wife would buy the kroger brand frozen bag of breasts with 10 or so in there. It was cheap but had no taste and would easily dry out. I went to a meat market in conroe who advertised a 40 lb bulk package of breasts. No hormones, no phosphates, etc. It was 2.99/lb when I first started buying it. It was incredibly yummy and even with my grilling where I'm scared to undercook chicken, it was always juicy and never dry.
It costs more but now I'm spoiled. I can never go back. I have told a couple friends about it. Since its an hour away and I head up there every other weekend anyway, I am the designated chicken transporter for about 5 other people.
It costs more but now I'm spoiled. I can never go back. I have told a couple friends about it. Since its an hour away and I head up there every other weekend anyway, I am the designated chicken transporter for about 5 other people.
Therealkozmo
Mr. Micropenis
damn that's dedication
cybrsage
New member
I tried to buy some, just to see if it would let me, and it kept failing. I will give it more time and try again.
MJF
WWPBBD
I downloaded a fitness/diet tracker so I can get a base line to give to 3J when I hire him towards the end of the month. Even with getting overly hungry and eating a bullritos burrito today, I'm struggling to meet my caloric goal on this app, well except I'm way over the recommended fat. I'm working stupid hours and haven't cooked so I'm looking around my desk and keep adding things to the log to get me to my goal. A banana here, apple there, handful of almonds, handful of cashews, packet of tuna, baked sweet potato. I'm not even sure I'll be able to choke it all down and I'm still short 900 calories. And I haven't even done my cardio yet. I assume it'll deduct calories for that even though my weight lifting didn't impact it.
From what I can tell, that whole "anabolic window" theory is bunk. But, hey, you're going to replenish after a workout (it just feels natural to be eat after exertion) so might as well eat good food. I have a big jug of protein powder that barely gets used. It's there in case of emergencies like if I'm out of chicken/milk/yogurt etc and don't have the energy to go to the store. Other than that, it's just taking up space. It takes me about 15 minutes to prepare a bowl of rice, chicken breast, angus beef with veggies and A1 sauce. I gobble that down with a couple glasses of milk and take a nap. Boom. Done. Protein shakes taste horrible or at best they are tolerable. Why drink that if you can have good food? Like I said, in tight spots and emergencies, down a shake. But otherwise? Meh, I'll pass.
supplements911
New member
I think if anybody is doing regular workout then he must take protein shakes.
carverelli
I am banned!
I wonder how the hell bodybuilders got so big in the 70's and 80'z before whey protein, which leads me to believe your theory is mostly broscience mixed with a generous amount of bullshit
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Agreed! Sounds like somebody endorsing some shit product to me lol
Southernfish
New member
I remember reading an article somewhere, and I cant remember who wrote it, might have been Zane or one of those old school guys anyways. He said due to the fact they had minimal amounts of money as lots of them basically trained and didnt work they would sneak into local coffee shops after their workouts and steal the cream people used for their coffee as a protein source lol.
bonexyster
Well-known member
The only time it's optimal to drink whey is post workout. Whey causes a huge insulin spike which is only beneficial post workout. In the morning a pan full of egg whites will give more protien and aminos all with less insulin. And the reason bodybuilders eat chicken, fish and other protien sources other then beef during the day is because it takes 8 hours to digest. So where does this leave beef? The perfect last meal of the day. Should a person consume carbs before bed probably not, glucose can live in the blood stream for up to 48 hours before it's stored if you're not being heavily active. A lean steak with a cup of broccoli is all you need to adequately sustain through a nights sleep without adding fat. You could opp for casein protien but even casein will cause a insulin spike slowing hgh production through the night.
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
What a load of bullshit.
Why is it "optimal" to consume whey post workout hmm?
Especially considering "insulin spikes" post workout are completely irrelevant to muscle growth so please show some evidence.
Where is the evidence to suggest beef takes less time to digest vs chicken or other protein sources?
Why should you not consume carbs before bed?
Considering de novo lipogenesis is VERY limited and there is NO WAY that your going to suddenly turn carbs into fat overnight unless your eating at a surplus with all your food being carbs.
"Even casein will cause an insulin spike slowing hgh production"
LOL - all food causes an insulin spike and is irrelevant to hgh production during the night because guess what? A good nights sleep will increase hgh output REGARDLESS of what you eat before falling asleep.
I'm sorry to pick on you specifically, but there is a HUGE amount of complete bullshit regarding nutrition in this thread.
You guys need to wake up and realise that science has advanced to the point where we know everything we need to know regarding nutrition and fat loss/muscle gains.
Next time find some evidence for your points or avoid expressing them in a manner that suggests their facts
bonexyster
Well-known member
Study urges moderation in red meat intake - Harvard Health Blog - Harvard Health Publications
Ok first some very simple should be common sense questions? If your body isn't producing insulin then what is it producing? Igf, which is produced from hgh.....
The function igf1 and insulin are identical, but igf doesn't cause sugar depositing like insulin right, which in turn leads to fat storage right? The function of both is to shuttle nutrients into the cell. This is why people inject peptides post workout to increase protein synthesis. The body most optimally absorbs protien post workout after glycogen levels have been restored. Ever hear of people eating sweets with thier whey post workout? This process happens through a insulin spike.
This explain why insulin is optimal post workout and aids in muscle gain.
Post-workout key: Gummy bears?
So take this same concept and think why people use low glycemic diets and don't loose muscle mass, if the body isn't producing insulin it's producing igf. The low glycemic diet works by more slowly digest carbs right? Common sense should tell you that lessinsulin production throughout the night stimulates higher hgh release. Yes a good night sleep will give hgh production regardless, especially if you workout but less glycogen equals more hgh....period.
Have you seriously never read anything of elevated colon risk from red meat due to digestion being harder? Some elderly men have been found to have up to 5 lbs of read meat stuck in thier colon. There are numerous studies concentrated in the slow digestion of red meat, some people can't eat it because thier unable to digest it.
This study was done by Harvard Medical and speaks about red meat not being a good post workout meal due to slow digestion.
Study urges moderation in red meat intake - Harvard Health Blog - Harvard Health Publications
The next time you want to call my post bullshit you should google. And I didn't take it personally because I'm right. I don't need an apology.
Next time learn from my posted facts.
What a load of bullshit.
Why is it "optimal" to consume whey post workout hmm?
Especially considering "insulin spikes" post workout are completely irrelevant to muscle growth so please show somesenseence.
Where is the evidence to suggest beef takes less time to digest vs chicken or other protein sources?
Why should you not consume carbs before bed?
Considering de novo lipogenesis is VERY limited and there is NO WAY that into fat overnight unless your eating at a surplus with all your food being carbs.
"Even casein will cause an insulin spike slowing hgh production"
LOL - all food causes an insulin spike and is irrelevant to hgh production during the night because guess what? A good nights sleep will increase hgh output REGARDLESS of what you eat before falling asleep.
I'm sorry to pick on you specifically, but there is a HUGE amount of complete bullshit regarding nutrition in this thread.
You guys need to wake up and realise that science has advanced to the point where we know everything we need to know regarding nutrition and fat loss/muscle gains.
Next time find some evidence for your points or avoid expressing them in a manner that suggests their facts
Ok first some very simple should be common sense questions? If your body isn't producing insulin then what is it producing? Igf, which is produced from hgh.....
The function igf1 and insulin are identical, but igf doesn't cause sugar depositing like insulin right, which in turn leads to fat storage right? The function of both is to shuttle nutrients into the cell. This is why people inject peptides post workout to increase protein synthesis. The body most optimally absorbs protien post workout after glycogen levels have been restored. Ever hear of people eating sweets with thier whey post workout? This process happens through a insulin spike.
This explain why insulin is optimal post workout and aids in muscle gain.
Post-workout key: Gummy bears?
So take this same concept and think why people use low glycemic diets and don't loose muscle mass, if the body isn't producing insulin it's producing igf. The low glycemic diet works by more slowly digest carbs right? Common sense should tell you that lessinsulin production throughout the night stimulates higher hgh release. Yes a good night sleep will give hgh production regardless, especially if you workout but less glycogen equals more hgh....period.
Have you seriously never read anything of elevated colon risk from red meat due to digestion being harder? Some elderly men have been found to have up to 5 lbs of read meat stuck in thier colon. There are numerous studies concentrated in the slow digestion of red meat, some people can't eat it because thier unable to digest it.
This study was done by Harvard Medical and speaks about red meat not being a good post workout meal due to slow digestion.
Study urges moderation in red meat intake - Harvard Health Blog - Harvard Health Publications
The next time you want to call my post bullshit you should google. And I didn't take it personally because I'm right. I don't need an apology.
Next time learn from my posted facts.
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Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
Watch me tear this shit up:
Err what? Insulin & Igf can both go up & down together so I have no idea what your talking about here.
As an isolated factor this is irrelevant since your not taking into account caloric intake.
Your insulin levels can be sky high on a caloric deficit, which would lead to higher fat storage BUT fat oxidization is also increased - meaning it all evens out.
Lol this blog is based on Jim Stoppani's views, which I addressed in a post earlier this year as complete broscience.
Here is a review of ALL the available data so far on workout nutrition:
JISSN | Full text | Nutrient timing revisited: is there a post-exercise anabolic window?
There is NO such thing as carb timing provided your overall carb intake for the day is sufficient - regardless of the type of carbs.
The only time it becomes important is if your dumb enough to workout fasted (intermittent fasting style for example).
As for the insulin spike postworkout garbage, here is a direct quote from this review:
"However, while the theoretical basis behind spiking insulin post-workout is inherently sound, it remains questionable as to whether benefits extend into practice. First and foremost, research has consistently shown that, in the presence of elevated plasma amino acids, the effect of insulin elevation on net muscle protein balance plateaus within a range of 15-0 mU/L [45,46]; roughly 3-4 times normal fasting levels. This insulinogenic effect is easily accomplished with typical mixed meals, considering that it takes approximately 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and 3-6 hours (or more) for a complete return to basal levels depending on the size of a meal. Therefore, the recommendation for lifters to spike insulin post-exercise is somewhat trivial. The classical post-exercise objective to quickly reverse catabolic processes to promote recovery and growth may only be applicable in the absence of a properly constructed pre-exercise meal.
Moreover, there is evidence that the effect of protein breakdown on muscle protein accretion may be overstated. Glynn et al. [49] found that the post-exercise anabolic response associated with combined protein and carbohydrate consumption was largely due to an elevation in muscle protein synthesis with only a minor influence from reduced muscle protein breakdown. These results were seen regardless of the extent of circulating insulin levels. Thus, it remains questionable as to what, if any, positive effects are realized with respect to muscle growth from spiking insulin after resistance training. "
What all this means is - insulin spiking is complete bullshit
I have absolutely no idea what the fuck your talking about here.
1 - low glycemic diets have NOTHING to do with not losing muscle mass.
People on low carb diets, regardless of glycemic index, don't lose muscle mass because protein intake is invariably higher. In fact, here's another quote from a study to educate you:
Glycaemic index effects on fuel partitioning in humans. - PubMed - NCBI
"Apparently, the glycaemic index-induced serum insulin differences are not sufficient in magnitude and/or duration to modify fuel oxidation."
2 - Studies have consistently shown both insulin & IGF to drop when dieting, again it is NOT a one or the other type of deal.
3- Common sense tells me that HGH plays a secondary role when dieting and is not even close to being as important as your making it out to be.
I train natural bodybuilders for a living, trying to manipulate GH to get an edge is a complete waste of time because the increases are not even close to what you would get from real GH & peptides.
All foods cause insulin spikes - whether carb, protein or fat and guess what? Protein can be converted into glycogen too so does that mean we should avoid protein at night for this minuscule gh boost? Just stop please.
Lol this is painful.
Firstly, there are equally as many studies showing red meat consumption in moderation to be safe - if you believe every study you read on something being CORRELATED (not causing) to cancer then you will be eating virtually nothing at all.
Secondly, the REASON the red meat in this study was digested slowly is because it contained FAT- fat obviously slows down the digestion rate of everything, regardless of the type of meat.
Simple solution - if, for whatever reason, you want to increase the rate of digestion of a meal you should lower your fat intake.
Posted facts - my ass.
I have not only called your bullshit but conclusively proven through studies (not google) that it is indeed: BULLSHIT.
If you want further proof that you were talking nonsense then please let me know and I'll happily continue.
Do not pretend that you know what your talking about because I have a masters in nutrition and do this shit for a living - I actually DO know what I'm talking about
Err what? Insulin & Igf can both go up & down together so I have no idea what your talking about here.
As an isolated factor this is irrelevant since your not taking into account caloric intake.
Your insulin levels can be sky high on a caloric deficit, which would lead to higher fat storage BUT fat oxidization is also increased - meaning it all evens out.
Lol this blog is based on Jim Stoppani's views, which I addressed in a post earlier this year as complete broscience.
Here is a review of ALL the available data so far on workout nutrition:
JISSN | Full text | Nutrient timing revisited: is there a post-exercise anabolic window?
There is NO such thing as carb timing provided your overall carb intake for the day is sufficient - regardless of the type of carbs.
The only time it becomes important is if your dumb enough to workout fasted (intermittent fasting style for example).
As for the insulin spike postworkout garbage, here is a direct quote from this review:
"However, while the theoretical basis behind spiking insulin post-workout is inherently sound, it remains questionable as to whether benefits extend into practice. First and foremost, research has consistently shown that, in the presence of elevated plasma amino acids, the effect of insulin elevation on net muscle protein balance plateaus within a range of 15-0 mU/L [45,46]; roughly 3-4 times normal fasting levels. This insulinogenic effect is easily accomplished with typical mixed meals, considering that it takes approximately 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and 3-6 hours (or more) for a complete return to basal levels depending on the size of a meal. Therefore, the recommendation for lifters to spike insulin post-exercise is somewhat trivial. The classical post-exercise objective to quickly reverse catabolic processes to promote recovery and growth may only be applicable in the absence of a properly constructed pre-exercise meal.
Moreover, there is evidence that the effect of protein breakdown on muscle protein accretion may be overstated. Glynn et al. [49] found that the post-exercise anabolic response associated with combined protein and carbohydrate consumption was largely due to an elevation in muscle protein synthesis with only a minor influence from reduced muscle protein breakdown. These results were seen regardless of the extent of circulating insulin levels. Thus, it remains questionable as to what, if any, positive effects are realized with respect to muscle growth from spiking insulin after resistance training. "
What all this means is - insulin spiking is complete bullshit
I have absolutely no idea what the fuck your talking about here.
1 - low glycemic diets have NOTHING to do with not losing muscle mass.
People on low carb diets, regardless of glycemic index, don't lose muscle mass because protein intake is invariably higher. In fact, here's another quote from a study to educate you:
Glycaemic index effects on fuel partitioning in humans. - PubMed - NCBI
"Apparently, the glycaemic index-induced serum insulin differences are not sufficient in magnitude and/or duration to modify fuel oxidation."
2 - Studies have consistently shown both insulin & IGF to drop when dieting, again it is NOT a one or the other type of deal.
3- Common sense tells me that HGH plays a secondary role when dieting and is not even close to being as important as your making it out to be.
I train natural bodybuilders for a living, trying to manipulate GH to get an edge is a complete waste of time because the increases are not even close to what you would get from real GH & peptides.
All foods cause insulin spikes - whether carb, protein or fat and guess what? Protein can be converted into glycogen too so does that mean we should avoid protein at night for this minuscule gh boost? Just stop please.
Lol this is painful.
Firstly, there are equally as many studies showing red meat consumption in moderation to be safe - if you believe every study you read on something being CORRELATED (not causing) to cancer then you will be eating virtually nothing at all.
Secondly, the REASON the red meat in this study was digested slowly is because it contained FAT- fat obviously slows down the digestion rate of everything, regardless of the type of meat.
Simple solution - if, for whatever reason, you want to increase the rate of digestion of a meal you should lower your fat intake.
The next time you want to call my post bullshit you should google. And I didn't take it personally mostly because I knew what I was talking about. I don't need an apology.
Next time learn from my posted facts.
Posted facts - my ass.
I have not only called your bullshit but conclusively proven through studies (not google) that it is indeed: BULLSHIT.
If you want further proof that you were talking nonsense then please let me know and I'll happily continue.
Do not pretend that you know what your talking about because I have a masters in nutrition and do this shit for a living - I actually DO know what I'm talking about
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bonexyster
Well-known member
Lol did you decide to go spend 2 hours trying to prove me wrong. Hgh is not being produced if the body is in a mode of producing insulin. So if igf is going up while insulin is, it is from a hgh pulse that just happened and they ate shortly there after. Google how the pituitary gland works.
I don't care who you train when you don't even know carbs blunt hgh...... (that causes igf production)
why don't you google intermittent fasting and see that they have higher levels of HGH then traditional dieters..........get ready for it....they retain muscle from the extra hgh igf in a calorie deficit.
And are you fkn kidding me diet doesn't play a role in hgh production????
Coconut oil preworkout
raspberry for breakfast
Pineapple before bed
Cinnamon before every meal
all at different times.....all cause increase of hgh
How many hgh supplements are there? All based on what aminos? Wtf are egg whites? Pretty much pure aminos, I hope you'd know that masters of nutrition.
You found one lone study where someone didnt believe in insulin spiking now how many dozens of study show it is true. I work by statistics, did you take a math course of that?
As an isolated factor this is irrelevant since your not taking into account caloric intake.*
Your insulin levels can be sky high on a caloric deficit, which would lead to higher fat storage BUT fat oxidization is also increased - meaning it all evens out.*
Then I'm going to take a gander they are type 2 diabetic as fck or on a Atkins style diet to begin with in which why the fck would they be eating carbs to begin with? Did you seriously go to school? Did you study? And fat oxidation is mostly triggered by intramuscular triglycerides which are activated during intense cardio. Running an ckd diet during cardio is slightly different then eating carbs right before bed, so wtf r u talking about? unless you're referring to your type 2 diabetic that has sky high insulin that's been jogging for the last hour. What you're saying goes against the very concept of how fasted cardio works.
if you don't like Google then invest in bing or yahoo
I never said red meat wasn't safe lol. I don't care I'd still eat it.
Then it's a shame your masters of nutrition didn't offer a physiology course like I've had.
I don't care who you train when you don't even know carbs blunt hgh...... (that causes igf production)
why don't you google intermittent fasting and see that they have higher levels of HGH then traditional dieters..........get ready for it....they retain muscle from the extra hgh igf in a calorie deficit.
And are you fkn kidding me diet doesn't play a role in hgh production????
Coconut oil preworkout
raspberry for breakfast
Pineapple before bed
Cinnamon before every meal
all at different times.....all cause increase of hgh
How many hgh supplements are there? All based on what aminos? Wtf are egg whites? Pretty much pure aminos, I hope you'd know that masters of nutrition.
You found one lone study where someone didnt believe in insulin spiking now how many dozens of study show it is true. I work by statistics, did you take a math course of that?
As an isolated factor this is irrelevant since your not taking into account caloric intake.*
Your insulin levels can be sky high on a caloric deficit, which would lead to higher fat storage BUT fat oxidization is also increased - meaning it all evens out.*
Then I'm going to take a gander they are type 2 diabetic as fck or on a Atkins style diet to begin with in which why the fck would they be eating carbs to begin with? Did you seriously go to school? Did you study? And fat oxidation is mostly triggered by intramuscular triglycerides which are activated during intense cardio. Running an ckd diet during cardio is slightly different then eating carbs right before bed, so wtf r u talking about? unless you're referring to your type 2 diabetic that has sky high insulin that's been jogging for the last hour. What you're saying goes against the very concept of how fasted cardio works.
if you don't like Google then invest in bing or yahoo
I never said red meat wasn't safe lol. I don't care I'd still eat it.
Then it's a shame your masters of nutrition didn't offer a physiology course like I've had.
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Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
I didn't need to spend 2 hours because I already knew this stuff - hence why I called you on your bullshit immediately.
Frankly, you've been on this board long enough to know that I would not call someone out unless I had a load of ammo to back me up.
Yea...what I provided was a meta-analysis of ALL the available data produced up to early 2014 - not exactly one study now is it.
In case you don't know: a meta-analysis is a review of all the research available, and from that research, drawing a conclusion - pretty much as strong as evidence gets.
You have 2 choices:
- Learn from the facts I've provided you & be more knowledgeable in the future.
- Continue to act butthurt (as your latest post clearly shows you are) and embarrass yourself on a public board everyone can read.
Its not my fault that you combined a false sense of belief with an arrogant attitude = looking like an ass.
I've disproven the broscience so I'm done with this conversation - hopefully guys/girls passing by this thread will have learnt a few things
bonexyster
Well-known member
I didn't need to spend 2 hours because I already knew this stuff - hence why I called you on your bullshit immediately.
Frankly, you've been on this board long enough to know that I would not call someone out unless I had a load of ammo to back me up.
Yea...what I provided was a meta-analysis of ALL the available data produced up to early 2014 - not exactly one study now is it.
In case you don't know: a meta-analysis is a review of all the research available, and from that research, drawing a conclusion - pretty much as strong as evidence gets.
You have 2 choices:
- Learn from the facts I've provided you & be more knowledgeable in the future.
- Continue to act butthurt (as your latest post clearly shows you are) and embarrass yourself on a public board everyone can read.
Its not my fault that you combined a false sense of belief with an arrogant attitude = looking like an ass.
I've disproven the broscience so I'm done with this conversation - hopefully guys/girls passing by this thread will have learnt a few things
Embarrass myself!!??
Please....you've been shut down. And post a pic of your masters because your statement of oxidation proves you have no clue on how the body even metabolizes glycogen and what direct role it plays into fat oxidation.
1.Either you're on a ckd diet...
2. You're type 2 diabetic...
3. You're in a fasted state...
4. You're type 1 diabetic and just took a shot of insulin
other wise the body will utilize glycogen before oxidation of fat even begins, and if fats is being oxidized insulin is not present....that's why fasted cardio works.
I hope you are done because I proved you're full of shit. It's easily looked up I'm correct on everything I've stated and I've explained why. Have a nice day you lying masters of nutrition moron.
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